Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

NovemberWren · 14-02-2021 07:29PM

growleaves wrote: »

What does 'reopen the economy' mean though? Does it mean going beyond Level 1 to old normal? Or it does it mean going to Level 3?

when all of the wealthy' commercial mortgages have been written off for them ?

pjohnson · 14-02-2021 07:32PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Explain how there's no such thing as free speech when half the hilarious posters insist on referring to the Taoiseach and tanaiste as mehole and Leo the leak? Are they being abducted in the night by the stasi?

Somewhere along the line people somehow decided that "Free Speech" = "Freedom of FROM Consequences".

That confusion is what causes this issue of crying about "no free speech", they dislike being held accountable. People are allowed say whatever they like but not immune to consequences.

gally74 · 14-02-2021 07:34PM

ha. all were doing at the moment is borrowing from our Future!!!!!! in fact you could call it stealing from our future...

the low cost of borrowing will run out along with a collapse of the dollar

14-02-2021 07:37PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Somewhere along the line people somehow decided that "Free Speech" = "Freedom of Consequences". That confusion is what causes this issue of crying about "no free speech", they dislike being held accountable.

You mean freedom from consequences, surely.

In any case, it's less a desire for freedom from consequences than it is a desire for adherence to the principle, not merely the legality, of free speech. The principle of free speech only exists when you can tolerate speech that you abhor. Absent that, free speech does not exist. You may argue against that speech, of course, for that in itself is in accordance with principles of free speech. But attempts to shut down or silence speech that you dislike are explicitly antithetical to any principle of free speech.

Boggles · 14-02-2021 07:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't watch television, and I was just utterly horrified by what I saw when we spent Christmas with family members who do. News always on in the background, a big, red, pulsing coronavirus in the background on a black background, death and infection tickers. It was like something out of a post-apocalyptic movie, and not what any right-minded person would expect for a virus that seems to have an infection fatality rate currently estimated by Imperial College London to be between 0.26% and 1.71%.

The mitigation measures are not solely determined on mortality, I learned that nearly a year ago from a newspaper.

BillyBob55 on twitter hadn't switched his grift from refugees and mouthy women to 'It's not even a flu' so I couldn't consult him at the time.

14-02-2021 07:40PM

Boggles wrote: »

The mitigation measures are not solely determined on mortality

Direct me to where I stated that they were.

paw patrol · 14-02-2021 07:46PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Somewhere along the line people somehow decided that "Free Speech" = "Freedom of FROM Consequences".

That confusion is what causes this issue of crying about "no free speech", they dislike being held accountable. People are allowed say whatever they like but not immune to consequences.

you post some tripe .
another sh1t and run banality from the esteemed pjohnson

Boggles · 14-02-2021 07:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Direct me to where I stated that they were.

I never suggested you did, I was informing you of the fact considering you consume little media as you suggested, I learned that fact last year from a newspaper.

You wouldn't be great one for deviling into the studies either TBF, if I remember correctly.

pjohnson · 14-02-2021 07:50PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You mean freedom from consequences, surely.

In any case, it's less a desire for freedom from consequences than it is a desire for adherence to the principle, not merely the legality, of free speech. The principle of free speech only exists when you can tolerate speech that you abhor. Absent that, free speech does not exist. You may argue against that speech, of course, for that in itself is in accordance with principles of free speech. But attempts to shut down or silence speech that you dislike are explicitly antithetical to any principle of free speech.

Free speech exists in Ireland. Heck if it didn't this thread wouldn't have made it past one post :pac:

There is an adherence to free speech, the speech isnt forbidden. You may just need to be an adult when it comes to the consequences if the speech you are allowed to make.

Most of the whinging about "free speech" is about the consequences they face.

Seweryn · 14-02-2021 08:07PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

It will be exciting when we can soon compare cases and deaths same date year on year

I am not sure it would be that exciting :pac:. It just show the sh!tshow we are in.

If we look at the death rates, here is a comparison using up to date figures.

Oh... I have actually allowed for additional, potentially unclaimed deaths (being quite "generous" for 2020, as you can see) and I have not taken into account the last two months of the year, as the numbers may be on the low side for 2020, so would be unfair for the comparison.

150421085_832705443976357_5325952469940541843_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=3&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=jyKivd8aIToAX-gMtQi&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&oh=fe43b19db92ee40c9fd6fa16e8f2e182&oe=604ED489

150421085_832705443976357_5325952469940541843_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=3&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=jyKivd8aIToAX-gMtQi&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&oh=fe43b19db92ee40c9fd6fa16e8f2e182&oe=604ED489

TheDoctor · 14-02-2021 08:12PM

Do we know why April 2020 had the initial big spike but it just went back to "normal" levels after that, rather than have multiple months above normal.

14-02-2021 08:14PM

Boggles wrote: »

considering you consume little media as you suggested

The telly and the newspaper are not the entirety of media, Boggles.

Why do you assume I'm not good with studies? Because when another poster (you didn't read a single one after all) found a flaw in two of the twenty-five I posted (if an objection to an author and a perfectly standard caveat could be called flaws), I did not immediately and with great urgency spend the rest of my day trying to explain the others so that you could continually refer back to the two with which they found fault?

That's not going to happen. It's a waste of everyone's time, and the people who are interested enough to read the studies will do so and come to their own conclusions.

I've a question for you, though: What would it take for you to say "enough"? At what level of demonstrable harm from lockdowns or demonstrable proof that the government has no real interest in saving any lives, would you question the wisdom of this strategy? Does that point even exist?

Boggles · 14-02-2021 08:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The telly and the newspaper are not the entirety of media, Boggles.

I never suggested they were, I actually pointed out another form of media in my post.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you assume I'm not good with studies?

I never assumed that.

In order to gauge ones ability to interrupt a study, the most basic prerequisite would be to actually read the study and not just pretend to.

Deleted User wrote: »

I've a question for you, though: What would it take for you to say "enough"? At what level of demonstrable harm from lockdowns or demonstrable proof that the government has no real interest in saving any lives, would you question the wisdom of this strategy? Does that point even exist?

An acute brain injury?

ingo1984 · 14-02-2021 08:50PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Do we know why April 2020 had the initial big spike but it just went back to "normal" levels after that, rather than have multiple months above normal.

Massacre in the nursing homes once the virus hit our shores I'd say.

Seweryn · 14-02-2021 08:57PM

ingo1984 wrote: »

Massacre in the nursing homes once the virus hit our shores I'd say.

That's right. Plus some of the hospital patients relocation into nursing homes to make room for the expected "surge" of Cov. cases.

SusieBlue · 14-02-2021 08:59PM

Public mood is definitely shifting, you need only look at the most thanked posts on front page to see it.

There was a very long period of time where the most popular covid related posts each day were in staunch support of lockdown/the government/nphet, calling out rule breakers, and demanding even more strict measures be put in place (roadside executions, water cannons, and having the army on the streets using rubber bullets against rule breakers springs to mind).

Not any more though. It’s really interesting to see the support now turn in the other direction.
People recognise that this situation is unsustainable and doing far more social, mental, physical and financial damage to us as a society than covid ever could.

There has to be a better, more practical solution to handling this than over 6 months of level 5 with half a million people out of work, and people are finally waking up to that. It’s almost a relief to see so many people seeing it what it is now.
The next few weeks will be interesting, I foresee more questioning in the media as they too pick up on the public mood.

Silentcorner · 14-02-2021 09:00PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Do we know why April 2020 had the initial big spike but it just went back to "normal" levels after that, rather than have multiple months above normal.

It was the consequence of the first surge that hit us in March and took (mostly) the most vulnerable immune systems...the surge lasted about 6 weeks and deaths plateaued after that....between April and Dec we were essentially chasing cases testing healthy people and counting them as cases...the deaths and ICU activity were stable in these months.

The virus surged again in Dec and the Jan figured will reflect a higher death count...I believe the death rates are quiet low for Nov/Dec.

We need to think about this virus in the context of 6 week surges, the positive case rates will be high in the darker months but the death rates are so low it isn't a concern much like the ICU activity is very low between surges.

The lockdowns are not controlling this virus in any meaningful way....nor are they impacting the death rate much....over time, the madness of what we are doing is going to be hard to cover up!!!

PTH2009 · 14-02-2021 09:02PM

Reckon were going to lose hosting the Euros games in Dublin

14-02-2021 09:07PM

Boggles wrote: »

An acute brain injury?

Interesting.

Maybe you can be the one to tell me, then, why the government has failed, indeed continues to fail, to provide vitamin D to every citizen and strongly recommend they take it on the basis that it's proven to be effective in significantly reducing mortality from Covid-19?

Considering that Vitamin D is known to be a safe and cheap therapy, and that this information has been strongly suspected since at least March 2020, and at every investigation since has been proven with more confidence, it does rather seem that the only possible reason for not recommending such a simple and effective therapy would be a flagrant disregard for life.

Maybe you know something we don't?

Penfailed · 14-02-2021 09:07PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Reckon were going to lose hosting the Euros games in Dublin

Why? Who told you that?

Sierra Oscar · 14-02-2021 09:08PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Reckon were going to lose hosting the Euros games in Dublin

It's likely. UEFA are considering moving all of the games to one country, if it even goes ahead at all. Doesn't make much sense to encourage tens of thousands of people to travel to a dozen cities in each corner of Europe.

SheepsClothing · 14-02-2021 09:11PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's likely. UEFA are considering moving all of the games to one country, if it even goes ahead at all. Doesn't make much sense to encourage tens of thousands of people to travel to a dozen cities in each corner of Europe.

It should have been in one country in the first place. Pea brained idea to have it all over Europe.

Boggles · 14-02-2021 09:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting.

Maybe you can be the one to tell me, then, why the government has failed, indeed continues to fail, to provide vitamin D to every citizen and strongly recommend they take it on the basis that it's proven to be effective in significantly reducing mortality from Covid-19?

Considering that Vitamin D is known to be a safe and cheap therapy, and that this information has been strongly suspected since at least March 2020, and at every investigation since has been proven with more confidence, it does rather seem that the only possible reason for not recommending such a simple and effective therapy would be a flagrant disregard for life.

Maybe you know something we don't?

Yes, the government are not recommending a hormone because they want to kill people.

TheDoctor · 14-02-2021 09:12PM

They'll play it all in one country, maybe the UK being the vaccination champions could host!
Similar to how they ran off the end of the Champions League/Europa League last year.

14-02-2021 09:16PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, the government are not recommending a hormone because they want to kill people.

It's all very tiresome, Boggles, these pointless little "gotcha" posts you make. But sure, go on. Tell us why the government has not strongly recommended (let alone supplied) a proven, effective, cheap and safe therapy for an ongoing pandemic disease.

hynesie08 · 14-02-2021 09:16PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Why? Who told you that?

If the euros are happening this year, I'd reckon its in a bubble, so London having 3 major stadiums (Wembley, spurs, Olympic) could easily see the whole tournament taking place there.

Others will be along to claim Tony holohan got picked last in pe so he hates football or something....

TheDoctor · 14-02-2021 09:23PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

If the euros are happening this year, I'd reckon its in a bubble, so London having 3 major stadiums (Wembley, spurs, Olympic) could easily see the whole tournament taking place there.

Others will be along to claim Tony holohan got picked last in pe so he hates football or something....

He definitely never got invited on sessions.

Guy has had an agenda against the pubs since day 1 of this.

JRant · 14-02-2021 09:24PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Reckon were going to lose hosting the Euros games in Dublin

That should be a given. Even last year a lot of countries allowed limited numbers of fans into games. That ain't happening here.

Boggles · 14-02-2021 09:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all very tiresome, Boggles, these pointless little "gotcha" posts you make. But sure, go on. Tell us why the government has not strongly recommended (let alone supplied) a proven, effective, cheap and safe therapy for an ongoing pandemic disease.

I have no idea why the government would be killing people on purpose.

I do know that exact same "point" was argued in the high court though.

Ms O'Doherty said what the State did was "absolutely disgusting"...There was a cure for the virus, she claimed, from hydroxychloroquine, vitamin C and zinc, but hospitals were putting people into intensive care and "bringing about their deaths".

The judge had a similar reaction to me.

JRant · 14-02-2021 09:28PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

They'll play it all in one country, maybe the UK being the vaccination champions could host!
Similar to how they ran off the end of the Champions League/Europa League last year.

It'll be the only country in Europe with enough people vaccinated to host it in any appreciable manner.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings