8valve's vintage meanderings

8valve · 14-02-2021 8:30pm #1

OK, so there's been a bit of interest here lately in some of the vintage restorations that some of us are carrying out, so I thought I'd start a little thread for those of you who might have an interest, both from a spectator's point of view on seeing how I go about it, and maybe even encourage some of the rest of you to have a go!

Fundamentally, vintage bikes are not complicated machines to work on, compared to modern machinery with their composite frames, electronic gear change gizmos and the dreaded internally routed cabling.

Resilient, long-lasting metal frames, straightforward wheel spoke lacing patterns, friction (or simply indexed) down-tube gear levers and simple brake levers that just pull brake cables, rather than shifting and trimming gear cables as well.

I'll try and show how I go about certain jobs, methods for good results that I've learned during my own experience of this hobby, where to find various bikes/bits/components without getting fleeced and pitfalls to watch out for.

I'm a cyclist since my mid-teens, back when Kelly ruled the pro peloton, and I've been fixing my own bikes since then. In the past decade, I took to renovating bikes for charity and in recent years, got hooked on restoring old racing bikes, which are very close to my heart. Most of the projects I do are the bikes that I dreamed of owning as a teenager, but were unattainable due to cost. I also like quirky designs, as they are all part of cycling history.

In recent years, I jumped off the corporate ladder, gave a shot at running a small business which, sadly, didn't make it, so I now work part-time as a mechanic in one of the oldest bike shops in Ireland. I love the fact that I may be fine tuning a set of DI2 gears on a high-end carbon racer one minute, and the next I'm adjusting the brake rods on a high nelly!

So, I'll document what I'm working on, why a bike appeals to me and I'll post pics of progress as I go along. Feel free to ask questions; there are no stupid ones. We all started somewhere, made mistakes, and (hopefully) learned from them.

I suppose the best way to start is to list what is currently in the workshop...

TheBlaaMan · 14-02-2021 8:42pm

Great stuff. Thanks for doing this ...............looking forward to following the thread.

8valve · 14-02-2021 10:10pm

Right....I actually had to go in and look at what's in there, as I've a head like a sieve. In no particular order...

1956 Claud Butler Buccaneer: this was handed to me by a friend as a frame, complete with lovely hammerite paintjob...and a cardboard box of bits. He said ''take your time; I want it back like brand new!''. A long-term project, so, as sourcing original parts is an ongoing quest.

1980s Battaglin: this frame arrived from Holland as a fixie, with no paint on the frame and BATTAGLIN badly written on the downtube in permanent marker! Fortunately, the dreaded fear of the derailleur hanger being hack-sawed off didn't come true. I have mostly gathered a period correct groupset Campagnolo for this, including the highly coveted delta brakes, and intend to build it as a replica of Stephen Roche's 1987 bike.

1980s RIH Mistral: another friend's bike; he entrusted me to strip it down, respray the frame and apply new decals, service all the parts and rebuild it as a complete bike; this will be fairly straightforward...probably.

1980s Paganini: Columbus tubed frameset. This one is very close to my heart and a bike I lusted after in my teens. A friend owned one, complete with full Dura ace groupset, so I'm restoring this one in the same colour scheme as his, with a full Dura ace 7402 group that I sourced here within this community.

1960s Mercian: Reynolds 531 frame, owned by a good friend. I'm in the process of repainting this in Ford Purple Velvet metallic with cream details with new reproduction decals; a fairly straightforward job that will be completed soon, hopefully.

1994 GT Force: It is rumoured (but not very well documented - no pics anywhere online) that GT provided the frames for the Mavic neutral service bikes for the 1994/1995 Tour Du Pont in the US, using their immediately recognisable triple triangle frame design. I can't find any details, so I'm just making this project up as I go along, with a Mavic yellow paintjob and a mix of GT & Mavic decals...and a full mid-90s Mavic groupset. looking forward to getting stuck into this. I've always loved the GT frame quirkiness.

Early 1990s SNEL: this was a gift from a friend in Holland. I am assured it was a Dutch National team frame, and I have no reason to doubt its authenticity. It arrived with a bent chain stay (I've since realigned this with brute force, ignorance and luck....and coldset it to 130mm to take wider rear axle wheels), wrecked paintjob and lots of surface rust. No bother at all, so! I took a gamble and emailed SNEL Racefietsen B.V. in Utrecht to see if they had any old bike frame decals that would suit. an absolute legend of a chap named Berend emailed me back, having rooted in the back of cupboards, drawers and store rooms and mailed me a bundle of the original decals...at no charge. probably the only originals left in the world, as they're marked out for correct application to steel frame tubes by the in-house frame-builders at the time! All he asked in return is for a pic of the restored frame, when finished, which I will gladly provide. Haven't decided which route to go with it, but I'll probably default to my preferred choice of period correct Dura Ace when the frame is painted and ready to build up.

1969 Triumph: owned by a gent since he was 11, he has asked me to strip it, then he'll repaint it (he's a car restorer) and I need to source some parts to complete the period correct build. Fairly straightforward.

Further down the pipeline:
1980s Raleigh burner (friend's bike)
1980s Concorde PDM frameset (frame damaged, so a longterm project)
1980s Razesa frameset (frame damaged, so a longterm project)
1986 Peugeot Galaxie deathtrap (google it!)
2012 Chinarello Dogma frameset...might build this as a Bradley Wiggins replica.
A couple of 1930s high nellys....god help me!

8valve · 14-02-2021 10:15pm

1956 Claud Butler Buccaneer; beautiful fillet brazing on this 65 year old frame.

Delighted to find the original 'Duck Egg Blue' paint under the headbadge, so i can get an exact paint match.

8valve · 14-02-2021 10:17pm

RIH Mistral; a nice straightforward strip down, repaint and rebuild.

8valve · 14-02-2021 10:18pm

Paganini frameset, built with Columbus tubing. A project I'm really looking forward to.

8valve · 14-02-2021 10:23pm

A selection of frames, fresh from blasting and etch priming. I get this done by Molloys in Co Wexford, as they were recommended by a local vintage car restorer. a sound bunch to deal with and their work is top class, every time. I do this with any frame that is getting a full repaint, as it removes all paint, contamination, surface rust etc and leaves every little frame-builder's detail visible on the frame.

PS ignore the cardboard in the background.....that's what happens when you leave a large breed 9 month old pup unattended in the van with an empty cardboard box for 5 minutes!:D

cletus · 14-02-2021 10:52pm

That's great stuff. Each bike there is a potential thread on its own. Are they all personal projects, as in, outside the shop you work for?

ednwireland · 14-02-2021 10:56pm

https://flic.kr/p/6yzte1

hanging in the shed

if anyone has a use for it

8valve · 14-02-2021 11:26pm

cletus wrote: »

That's great stuff. Each bike there is a potential thread on its own. Are they all personal projects, as in, outside the shop you work for?

Yes, as if I hadn't enough bike related stuff in work... I go home and unwind...by fixing old bikes :-)

8valve · 14-02-2021 11:27pm

ednwireland wrote: »

https://flic.kr/p/6yzte1

hanging in the shed

if anyone has a use for it

Someone needs to save this!!

cletus · 14-02-2021 11:38pm

ednwireland wrote: »

https://flic.kr/p/6yzte1

hanging in the shed

if anyone has a use for it

Where are you based?

hesker · 15-02-2021 10:06am

Great thread.

Nice to see a RIH in your collection. I visited the RIH-Sport shop a few years ago and Wim van der Kaay was there. Sadly he passed away a few years ago.

There are some good videos about him on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc4mw_s162w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0fQ9XwaKVQ

magicbastarder · 15-02-2021 11:29am

cletus wrote: »

Where are you based?

north west ireland i think...

cletus · 15-02-2021 11:30am

Might have to leave it hanging in his shed, so...

8valve · 15-02-2021 12:06pm

cletus wrote: »

Might have to leave it hanging in his shed, so...

Not too big of a deal to get it boxed up by the local bike shop, you could get it couriered then?

jimm · 15-02-2021 1:05pm

8valve wrote: »

A selection of frames, fresh from blasting and etch priming. I get this done by Molloys in Co Wexford, as they were recommended by a local vintage car restorer....

Do you know what media they use to blast with? I was reading on the FB group "Steel is Real" where someone recommended that only walnut shells be used when blasting bike frames. He said sand was too abrasive.

8valve · 15-02-2021 2:06pm

jimm wrote: »

Do you know what media they use to blast with? I was reading on the FB group "Steel is Real" where someone recommended that only walnut shells be used when blasting bike frames. He said sand was too abrasive.

They use a fine sand for my steel frames, followed by a generous coating of etch primer, to protect the metal from the moisture in the air, until it's painted. I'm happy with the results, as I always then use a filler primer, to get back to a smooth finish, prior to applying paint. It's needed as a lot of the frames I restore have a lot of surface corrosion and this gets rid of it all; I've had occasions where I've even had to add a skim of filler as the blasting removes any pitted corrosion, so I'm confident I'm back to sound, solid metal. They are the experts in this area, having done this work on vintage and classic vehicles for years, so I'm always happy with their advice and recommendations.

For aluminium and magnesium frames, they use a gentler blasting medium, as the metal would be too soft and would become very pitted.

magicbastarder · 15-02-2021 2:28pm

i used a wire brush attached to a drill to strip the frame i recently worked on. doesn't seem to have done it too much damage.

8valve · 15-02-2021 2:51pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i used a wire brush attached to a drill to strip the frame i recently worked on. doesn't seem to have done it too much damage.

Steel is very resilient, so that's an ideal way to do it at home. Fiddly around lugs, braze-on fittings, though.

gman2k · 15-02-2021 5:20pm

The shell blasting can be used on carbon frames, but sand can be used safely on steel.
I watched a steel frame of mine getting blasted in Tallaght Powder coating, and it was lovely to watch!

cletus · 15-02-2021 5:40pm

I've had a steel frame blasted with lead shot, had to make sure all threads were peotected

ednwireland · 15-02-2021 10:30pm

cletus wrote: »

Might have to leave it hanging in his shed, so...

donegal . but it's not going anywhere too big for me.

WOT · 15-02-2021 11:17pm

ednwireland wrote: »

donegal . but it's not going anywhere too big for me.

Can I ask what the frame measures Seat tube Centre to centre?

I’d be interested if it in the 59/61 ballpark.

Assume 126mm rear is about right?

cletus · 15-02-2021 11:21pm

ednwireland wrote: »

donegal . but it's not going anywhere too big for me.

How much are you looking for, and what size frame.

ednwireland · 16-02-2021 10:35am

WOT wrote: »

Can I ask what the frame measures Seat tube Centre to centre?

I’d be interested if it in the 59/61 ballpark.

Assume 126mm rear is about right?

cletus wrote: »

How much are you looking for, and what size frame.

58cm if i remember right will update when i get in the shed

not sure about the rear spacing

no idea what its worth (if much at all) it has a campag record seatpost and headset though. i think its british threaded BB, internal cable routings a pain in the hole

annoyed with myself i didnt protect the chrome when i came over here

Apologies for hijacking the thread !

oh as an aside i may have a totally original (except tyres ) 1950's raleigh which was my dads, its in the loft at home -in the uk i think i even have the original receipt, when we can travel agian ill be over so if anyone had an interest ........

fat bloke · 19-02-2021 6:05pm

I can't remember if I asked you this before but I've a Colnago Master Olympic that's been lying idle for good few years now and I'd love to know what to do with it. It's too small for me and too big for the Mrs (it's 54 I'm pretty sure).

Are there places in Ireland to restore paintwork like this? Is it worth doing?

8valve · 19-02-2021 6:14pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I can't remember if I asked you this before but I've a Colnago Master Olympic that's been lying idle for good few years now and I'd love to know what to do with it. It's too small for me and too big for the Mrs (it's 54 I'm pretty sure).

Are there places in Ireland to restore paintwork like this? Is it worth doing?

Even in its current condition, it is worth a few bob, maybe a couple of hundred euro; many people who are into vintage bikes are quite happy to have all the nicks, scratches and patina that the frame has picked up over the decades.

There are others who only want bikes in mint condition and are willing to pay handsomely for a mint condition original frame.

However, to get that paintjob reproduced will cost several hundred euro by an airbrush artist who specialises in that kind of decorative paintwork and, when it is done, it will no longer be original, so it's a bit of a double edged sword...paint it and lose its originality (and only get a couple of hundred on top of painting cost when you sell), or sell as is for a couple of hundred.

There are a few marques that will sell very quickly: Colnago, Tommasini, Bianchi, Olmo all spring to mind immediately, plus a few other continental framebuilders.

8valve · 19-02-2021 6:16pm

Also, that frame size makes it an easy frame to sell; 54/55/56 will be snapped up if priced correctly but anything smaller/bigger than that sweetspot midrange frame size will take a little longer here in Ireland.

fat bloke · 19-02-2021 6:26pm

8valve wrote: »

, when it is done, it will no longer be original, so it's a bit of a double edged sword...paint it and lose its originality (and only get a couple of hundred on top of painting cost when you sell), or sell as is for a couple of hundred.

Yeah. I see what you mean. The wife loves it cos of was her first race bike so we'd always thought we'd mount in on a wall as a nice "piece". I wonder where the balance is in restoring to former glory while maintaining a faithful originality.

magicbastarder · 19-02-2021 6:48pm

was telling 8valve, but i recently bought a frame on a whim for 25 quid but it's probably a little big for me so i'm trying to decide whether to restore it. it's a 1952 sun 531 frame, made in the raleigh factory on hanover quay.

cletus · 19-02-2021 6:53pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

was telling 8valve, but i recently bought a frame on a whim for 25 quid but it's probably a little big for me so i'm trying to decide whether to restore it. it's a 1952 sun 531 frame, made in the raleigh factory on hanover quay.

Has it grown any in the last few weeks?

magicbastarder · 19-02-2021 6:57pm

if you heat it enough, i'm sure it'll be bound to expand a bit...

8valve · 19-02-2021 7:38pm

fat bloke wrote: »

Yeah. I see what you mean. The wife loves it cos of was her first race bike so we'd always thought we'd mount in on a wall as a nice "piece". I wonder where the balance is in restoring to former glory while maintaining a faithful originality.

My two cents...

It has provenance and sentimental value, as it was her first race bike.

1. Polish the paintwork to a high shine, then wax it to preserve it.
2. Polish the chrome (even the bits that been exposed due to paint chips etc) with Autosol, or similar metal polish, till you have a mirror finish.
3. Hang it on the wall; it is then preserved, protected and every scratch/chip is part of its history. Frames like this are not made any more, haven't been for years, so it is going to do nothing but appreciate in value. You can then decide at some point in the future if you want to part with it, in its original state.

magicbastarder · 19-02-2021 7:49pm

there was someone selling a master on here about two years ago; raging at the time that i didn't buy it.

Mefistofelino · 19-02-2021 9:17pm

Watch out on Masters with the internal brake cable routing - they can suffer from bad corrosion at the inlet point under the top tube. First sign is blistering paintwork.

Also there were issues with chroming on late 90s Colnagos, especially the forks as it can peel off.

MojoMaker · 19-02-2021 9:55pm

Also a Master and a Master Olympic are not the same frame from memory - right 8valve?

There was one for sale not a million years ago here I remember. Didn't seem to fly off the shelf either although it was nice.

Quigs Snr · 19-02-2021 10:10pm

I have a couple of Colnago Masters myself. A first gen from 1983 and a master olympic from 94 or 95.

I was so upset when it got its first scratch, seen in this picture that i nearly sold it.

https://ibb.co/1r4892v

Quigs Snr · 19-02-2021 10:27pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

Also a Master and a Master Olympic are not the same frame from memory - right 8valve?

There was one for sale not a million years ago here I remember. Didn't seem to fly off the shelf either although it was nice.

They are the same - ish. Very little difference between the Olympic and the Piu in real terms. My original 83 master has external cable routing vs internal (top tube) on the olympic.. but aside from that if you painted them the same and ignored the curved chrome fork on the 83 model vs the straight prescia fork on the Olympic you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference.

There may be a weight difference too but I have mine built period correct so a straight compare is not easy.. my 83 is a size smaller with 6speed Super Record whilst the Olympic has record 8 speed titanium. So its hard to compare without stripping them. I'd be surprised if there was much in it though.

MojoMaker · 20-02-2021 12:19pm

That's a lovely Master Quigs.

Last one I saw through here was in 2019 I think?

8valve, you should put up a mini-collection and let us have a wee browse! Still hanging on for that black Dolan you ear-marked for me

iwillhtfu · 20-02-2021 1:34pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

That's a lovely Master Quigs.

Last one I saw through here was in 2019 I think?

8valve, you should put up a mini-collection and let us have a wee browse! Still hanging on for that black Dolan you ear-marked for me

It might have been this one you saw, I went to pick up the frame and ended up buying the bike

I'd still love a dark art deco or one of those photochromatic blue frames I've seen about the inter webs. If anyone is selling?

8valve · 20-02-2021 7:32pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

That's a lovely Master Quigs.

Last one I saw through here was in 2019 I think?

8valve, you should put up a mini-collection and let us have a wee browse! Still hanging on for that black Dolan you ear-marked for me

Don't worry; I haven't forgotten the Dolan.

It went to the seatpost removal surgeon, with my Olmo, aaaaaaaaaaages ago.

Must give him a ring and light some fire under his ar5e!

Will post some bike pics over the next day or two.

PS...in recent weeks, I have repeatedly posted NO MORE BIKES as my new year's resolution. As of yesterday evening, three more frames have been added to the queue for renovation.

1980's Rossin road frame
1970's Dawes touring frame
Late 80s/early 90s Raleigh MTB, built from Reynolds 501...which could be kinda cool done in either the Panasonic or Banana team colours. Hmmmm.

So much for resolutions

MojoMaker · 20-02-2021 8:54pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

It might have been this one you saw, I went to pick up the frame and ended up buying the bike

I'd still love a dark art deco or one of those photochromatic blue frames I've seen about the inter webs. If anyone is selling?

That's the one! Good to see it being used.

The luminescent blue frames are the dog's danglies alright.

Quigs Snr · 20-02-2021 10:49pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

It might have been this one you saw, I went to pick up the frame and ended up buying the bike

I'd still love a dark art deco or one of those photochromatic blue frames I've seen about the inter webs. If anyone is selling?

I came real close to buying that one. 1989 Team Malvor colour scheme. Love it. But I am weak when it comes to bikes.. I'd end up restoring it to mint and spending 3 times what its worth, like I always do.

My classic collection is light now but I am always on the look out for something interesting (would love a good Raleigh). Luckily I am small so very few good vintage bikes come up in my size. Everyone was taller in the eighties than I remember. On the wall right now.. 83 Colnago Master, 87 Vitus 979, 89 Peugeot 653 Athena, 90 TVT Team Z, 94 Colnago Master Olympic.

... and if you consider full carbon classic there's a 97 Colnago C40 and (god help me but I love it) 99 Trek 5500 US Postal.

iwillhtfu · 20-02-2021 10:53pm

Quigs Snr wrote: »

I came real close to buying that one. 1989 Team Malvor colour scheme. Love it. But I am weak when it comes to bikes.. I'd end up restoring it to mint and spending 3 times what its worth, like I always do.

My classic collection is light now but I am always on the look out for something interesting (would love a good Raleigh). Luckily I am small so very few good vintage bikes come up in my size. Everyone was taller in the eighties than I remember. On the wall right now.. 83 Colnago Master, 87 Vitus 979, 89 Peugeot 653 Athena, 90 TVT Team Z, 94 Colnago Master Olympic.

... and if you consider full carbon classic there's a 97 Colnago C40 and (god help me but I love it) 99 Trek 5500 US Postal.

There was a really nice art deco colnago on adverts in a small size I think it was 51x51. I almost bought just because I like it so much but it would've been to small.

TheW1zard · 21-02-2021 12:41am

Wheres the best place to pick up an old frame?
I'd love to do one up mint.
I've a good few bikes now but no project!

Anything on donedeal seems very expensive

jimm · 21-02-2021 1:43am

TheW1zard wrote: »

Wheres the best place to pick up an old frame?
I'd love to do one up mint.
I've a good few bikes now but no project!

Anything on donedeal seems very expensive

Check out Arthur van Rooij. He has a FB Group called Vintage Bicycles Holland

https://www.facebook.com/groups/408179642674881

Sells a fair few Colnago, Eddy Merckx, etc. Frames and full bikes. He seems to hunt down every steel frame left in sheds, barns, etc. throughout mainland Europe.

magicbastarder · 21-02-2021 12:12pm

what height are you? i bought a frame on a whim recently - a 1952 sun super vitesse, 531 frame - but it's probably a *little* too large for me. would just be looking for what i paid for it, 25 quid. 55cm top tube.

here's the original ad where i bought it:
https://www.adverts.ie/bike-frames/sun-super-viennese-road-bike-frame/22790573

MojoMaker · 21-02-2021 12:54pm

I usually browse www.dublinbikeman.com every few months, but hadn't been over since maybe last summer.

Usually has a ton of interesting vintage steel road bikes in stock, you'd be spoiled for choice in or around €250-€300. Now it's mostly hybrids or mtbs, stock numbers well down, very few road bikes, and nothing really interesting (to me at least).

Oh and prices across the board up at least €50 on average

8valve · 21-02-2021 2:05pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

Wheres the best place to pick up an old frame?
I'd love to do one up mint.
I've a good few bikes now but no project!

Anything on donedeal seems very expensive

As mentioned above, Check out Arthur Van Rooij's page; I've bought a half dozen bikes from him over the years and he's fine to deal with, if a little pricey, at times. Other times, he'll have bargain bikes for restoration.

Reesfiets.nl is also worth a look, as it's run by a Dublin lady living in the Netherlands.

Ebay sometimes throws up a few gems, but beware of gougers; lots of sellers of overpriced stuff.

Donedeal & Adverts can sometimes throw out a bargain; search for 'Reynolds' or 'Columbus', as these were the dominant tubing makers for steel frames and a savvy seller will usually mention it in their ad. Be prepared to haggle; the price quoted is always what the seller would like, not what a bike/frame is worth. I've bought quality complete bikes with Reynolds tubing frames(that needed restoration) for double figures and also seen 'gaspipe' run of the mill Raleighs advertised for several hundred euro!

Let us know here what size frame you need...someone may have something nice hanging in the shed, that you can save!

8valve · 21-02-2021 2:06pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

I usually browse www.dublinbikeman.com every few months, but hadn't been over since maybe last summer.

Usually has a ton of interesting vintage steel road bikes in stock, you'd be spoiled for choice in or around €250-€300. Now it's mostly hybrids or mtbs, stock numbers well down, very few road bikes, and nothing really interesting (to me at least).

Oh and prices across the board up at least €50 on average

He's grossly overpriced, but that's just my opinion.

Run of the mill French racers for pedigree prices.

8valve's vintage meanderings

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