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Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6242
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You’re right. It’d be hard work, and border regions would need a lot of support, but if a vaccine had never come along, this would have been the only workable option. Would need an unprecedented level of political cooperation, but had a vaccine not turned up, fear might have driven that level of cooperation.

    Maybe if all leaders had had a crystal ball, they’d have done some something along these lines. But the learning from this whole thing might be that we get a European pandemic response procedure set up and agreed, such that if and when something really nasty comes along, whether in 10 years or 50, then we have a pre-agreed coordinated response

    Like everyone abroad has 48 hours to get home before the Europe border is shut, quarantine is put in place at the point of entry into Europe, and immediate Europe-wide elimination strategy is enacted
    Had we not gone hell for leather on vaccines we would have focused on treatments and there is plenty of work ongoing there. Zero-COVID's failing is that it offers no guarantees nor end date. It doesn't attempt to manage outbreaks, which is how all diseases are controlled and instead it banks on an impractical strategy that takes no account of how such measures would affect society and people.


  • #6243
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El Sueño wrote: »
    Because it's not feasible in Ireland.

    This has been explained at least 1000 times before.

    We are talking about a Europe strategy. I think everyone accepts at this stage that ZC is not possible in Ireland alone


  • #6244
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,225 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What I find remarkable is we know there are variants that early evidence suggests might reduce the efficacy of the vaccines, yet our travel restrictions and border control is still completely ineffective/inadequate.

    The same is true across Europe. It's as if we're just waiting for the variants to get widespread enough so we can just say "well it's too late now to do anything".

    Europe has been a shambles in dealing with the pandemic. Everyone doing different versions of rolling lockdowns and living with Covid. Then all the eggs were put into the vaccine basket and the rollout so far is a dismal failure.

    Despite how many people are convinced that zero covid is impossible, we are just one variant away from that being forced on us.


  • #6245
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We are talking about a Europe strategy. I think everyone accepts at this stage that ZC is not possible in Ireland alone
    That's 44 countries with their own laws and peoples.


  • #6246
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Had we not gone hell for leather we would have focused on treatments and there is plenty of work ongoing there. Zero-COVID's failing is that it offers no guarantees nor end date. It doesn't attempt to manage outbreaks, which is how all diseases are controlled and instead it banks on an impractical strategy that takes no account of how such measures would affect society and people.

    It does exactly that, if you get cases to such a low level you can throw massive resources at testing, tracing and isolation. You know when China test entire cities? That kind of thing. You properly isolate all contacts, you test everyone that was in the possible locations, you restrict travel in and out of localised areas, you close the possible chains of infection. And you carry on living with covid.


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  • #6247
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    We are talking about a Europe strategy. I think everyone accepts at this stage that ZC is not possible in Ireland alone

    If ZC isn't feasible in one country it is absolute delusional to think it could work across 27.


  • #6248
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I does exactly that, if you get cases to such a low level you can throw massive resources at testing, tracing and isolation. You know when China test entire cities? That kind of thing. You properly isolate all contacts, you test everyone that was in the possible locations, you restrict travel in and out of localised areas, you close the possible chains of infection. And you carry on living with covid.
    For how long? Low enough cases is a very vague concept. China can also effectively lock people into their houses although you seem to be angling for the same kind of police state here.


  • #6249
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Ah the regular Zero Covid discussion. Not going to happen but amusing to read.


  • #6250
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    scamalert wrote: »
    Same BS 0 covid doesnt exist, would you preffered to have everything closed as in all the airports fairies etc, for entire year and everyone getting 350e in the mean time, fckn hell some people are brain dead beyond belief at this stage with hysteria.

    There's no need to be so aggressive in your reply. Has Australia and New Zealand shut down for the year? No they haven't, so people won't be out on the PUP. Get a grip with your aggressive reply.


  • #6251
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus Christ. I’m out. What is it with discourse these days that it has to be so binary


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  • #6252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    For how long? Low enough cases is a very vague concept. China can also effectively lock people into their houses although you seem to be angling for the same kind of police state here.

    How long? Until vaccines have the required coverage.

    Vague concept? Cases have to be low enough that you can test, trace and isolate adequately to close transmission chains. We know our resources (even if we haven't been using them) so we can work that out. We've never done that. Even when we effectively eliminated community transmission last summer, for some reason we gave up on all that.

    Police state? Nobody was locked in their houses in South Korea, New Zealand, Australia etc.

    You have to provide managed isolation and you have to make sure those isolating at home do so. We have let millions of hotel rooms across Europe sit empty, instead of reducing the liberty of few people we've reduced the liberty of an entire continent. We're not in a police state, but our kids can't go to school, I can't wander into a shop, can't go to the cinema, have a meal out. Yet in the "police state" countries they can do all of those things.


  • #6253
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Ni Infection rate down near 100 per 100,000
    https://twitter.com/vincekearney/status/1360955544677347340


  • #6254
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How long? Until vaccines have the required coverage.

    Vague concept? Cases have to be low enough that you can test, trace and isolate adequately to close transmission chains. We know our resources (even if we haven't been using them) so we can work that out. We've never done that. Even when we effectively eliminated community transmission last summer, for some reason we gave up on all that.

    Police state? Nobody was locked in their houses in South Korea, New Zealand, Australia etc.

    You have to provide managed isolation and you have to make sure those isolating at home do so. We have let millions of hotel rooms across Europe sit empty, instead of reducing the liberty of few people we've reduced the liberty of an entire continent. We're not in a police state, but our kids can't go to school, I can't wander into a shop, can't go to the cinema, have a meal out. Yet in the "police state" countries they can do all of those things.

    No one locked in their homes eh?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-australia-towers/australian-state-violated-human-rights-in-covid-lockdown-report-idUSKBN28R0EC?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews


  • #6255
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How long? Until vaccines have the required coverage.

    Vague concept? Cases have to be low enough that you can test, trace and isolate adequately to close transmission chains. We know our resources (even if we haven't been using them) so we can work that out. We've never done that. Even when we effectively eliminated community transmission last summer, for some reason we gave up on all that.

    Police state? Nobody was locked in their houses in South Korea, New Zealand, Australia etc.

    You have to provide managed isolation and you have to make sure those isolating at home do so. We have let millions of hotel rooms across Europe sit empty, instead of reducing the liberty of few people we've reduced the liberty of an entire continent. We're not in a police state, but our kids can't go to school, I can't wander into a shop, can't go to the cinema, have a meal out. Yet in the "police state" countries they can do all of those things.
    As I said, no dates to this whatsoever. You need to sell it to the public. What if we don't get coverage or even after "coverage" if there are still cases what's your plan then? TBH this seems to be a lot more about what you can and can't do.


  • #6256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    No one locked in their homes eh?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-australia-towers/australian-state-violated-human-rights-in-covid-lockdown-report-idUSKBN28R0EC?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

    “We make no apology for saving people’s lives, absolutely no apology for saving people’s lives,” Victoria state Housing Minister Richard Wynne told reporters.

    "No new cases have been reported in the state for 48 straight days as of Thursday."

    5 days, to get a job done. I'd take that instead of this.

    When we're still being told to stay at home in 3 months/6 months/a year's time, will you still have the same outlook?


  • #6257
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As I said, no dates to this whatsoever. You need to sell it to the public. And even after "coverage" if there are still cases what's your plan then? TBH this seems to be a lot more about what you can and can't do.

    What are the dates on our current situation?


  • #6258
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    They are finding cases of Covid being imported through foods and frozen foods. NZ are now finding cases coming out of nowhere. Completely unexplained cases. Once the virus is in, its going to spread silently.

    The likes of NZ are also banking on their population to have a near 100% uptake on vaccines. It's not going to happen.

    The polls in NZ are saying 70% are willing to take the vaccine. With 30% left over, that's 1.5m people. A small country.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018783487/covid-19-nz-females-more-likely-not-to-get-vaccinated


  • #6259
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What are the dates on our current situation?
    Review in 2-3 weeks. Schools back next month and construction too. Likely lower level of restrictions by April. Possible "staycations" in summer. And your date?


  • #6260
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    “We make no apology for saving people’s lives, absolutely no apology for saving people’s lives,” Victoria state Housing Minister Richard Wynne told reporters.

    "No new cases have been reported in the state for 48 straight days as of Thursday."

    5 days, to get a job done. I'd take that instead of this.

    When we're still being told to stay at home in 3 months/6 months/a year's time, will you still have the same outlook?

    You said no one was locked in their homes. Melbourne was locked done for 5 months.


  • #6261
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,225 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    They are finding cases of Covid being imported through foods and frozen foods. NZ are now finding cases coming out of nowhere. Completely unexplained cases. Once the virus is in, its going to spread silently.

    The likes of NZ are also banking on their population to have a near 100% uptake on vaccines. It's not going to happen.

    The polls in NZ are saying 70% are willing to take the vaccine. With 30% left over, that's 1.5m people. A small country.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018783487/covid-19-nz-females-more-likely-not-to-get-vaccinated

    When it comes down to it there will be far far less than 30% refusing the vaccine. I would be surprised if many countries don’t get at least 90% coverage easily.


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  • #6262
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    El Sueño wrote: »
    Because it's not feasible in Ireland.

    This has been explained at least 1000 times before.

    I am going to lose my every loving mind. That is not feasible... but what is happening right now IS feasible, tell me?

    Lockdown for over a year soon, perfectly feasible? No problem, mild inconvenience?

    Economic devastation? Feasible. Doable. 'We are all in this together.' say the politicians from their millionaire homes. No bother.

    Mental health nightmare? Feasible. A suitable sacrifice.

    Complete and utter destruction of anything resembling social existence? Feasible? Whoopdie-do.

    No sense of plan, no organisation, make it up as you go along approach, no hope, no timelines, just telling people to shut up and stay at home indefinitely is....again...feesable?

    Who exactly told you or anyone else that any of what is happening right now is 'feasible?' Just how much ****ing suffering to you is feasible, in relation to what you deem is not feasible?

    Absolutely **** this garbage ****. **** everything.


  • #6263
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Review in 2-3 weeks. Schools back next month and construction too. Likely lower level of restrictions by April. Possible "staycations" in summer. And your date?

    Sure problem over so. Don't know what I was frustrated about. Don't see what could go wrong with that at all, back in Copper's by July hopefully.


  • #6264
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You said no one was locked in their homes. Melbourne was locked done for 5 months.

    And I was wrong.

    Their second lockdown was 3 and a half months, to full reopening. We've never managed that.


  • #6265
    Parachutes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    I wonder if Victoria will extend lockdown past the initial 5 days? I'd say the likelihood is strong.


  • #6266
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sure problem over so. Don't know what I was frustrated about. Don't see what could go wrong with that at all, back in Copper's by July hopefully.
    Not about to do that numpty Internet thing of demanding an answer but you really don't seem to understand the need to give people a timeline and hope. You may be able to face unending and unpredictable measures into the future but many others cannot. Politically it has been deemed unviable and that will inform what happens.


  • #6267
    political analyst
    Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    They are finding cases of Covid being imported through foods and frozen foods. NZ are now finding cases coming out of nowhere. Completely unexplained cases. Once the virus is in, its going to spread silently.

    The likes of NZ are also banking on their population to have a near 100% uptake on vaccines. It's not going to happen.

    The polls in NZ are saying 70% are willing to take the vaccine. With 30% left over, that's 1.5m people. A small country.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018783487/covid-19-nz-females-more-likely-not-to-get-vaccinated

    Drinking the Beijing Politburo's Kool-Aid? :rolleyes:


  • #6268
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Parachutes wrote: »
    I wonder if Victoria will extend lockdown past the initial 5 days? I'd say the likelihood is strong.

    My God, do you think they might go to 6 days, 7 even ! :eek: The inhumanity!


  • #6269
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not about to do that numpty Internet thing of demanding an answer but you really don't seem to understand the need to give people a timeline and hope. You may be able to face unending and unpredictable measures into the future but many others cannot. Politically it has been deemed unviable and that will inform what happens.

    Exactly, I completely agree. But that is the exact situation we are in here in Ireland. A review in three weeks isn't even close to an endpoint or a solid timeline. We're getting leaks today that no gatherings of over 50 people until at least 7 months away. That is insanity.

    Another summer with no people at sporting events, no concerts, no festivals.

    Entire industries being put on hold for years in the hope we might get a beer garden by June. If that's the timeline then it is rubbish. That's not giving people hope.


  • #6270
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Exactly, I completely agree. But that is the exact situation we are in here in Ireland. A review in three weeks isn't even close to an endpoint or a solid timeline. We're getting leaks today that no gatherings of over 50 people until at least 7 months away. That is insanity.

    Another summer with no people at sporting events, no concerts, no festivals.

    Entire industries being put on hold for years in the hope we might get a beer garden by June. If that's the timeline then it is rubbish. That's not giving people hope.
    The difference is the underlying aim is to reopen things as soon as it is seen as feasible not until some undetermined "low level" is achieved. Using Staines as an example that is at least September. There'll be a lot more doing by then, our way.


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  • #6271
    SheepsClothing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not about to do that numpty Internet thing of demanding an answer but you really don't seem to understand the need to give people a timeline and hope. You may be able to face unending and unpredictable measures into the future but many others cannot. Politically it has been deemed unviable and that will inform what happens.

    And if they get a timeline they don't like, they'll whinge and moan on boards all day an night about it. No winning with some people.


This discussion has been closed.
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