Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

francogarbanzo · 12-02-2021 03:34PM

Boggles wrote: »

Fantastic, I'm glad you brought that up again because I asked you the same question and you ignored it.

So, do tell?

What number of deaths are you okay with?

At this point I am not "okay" with any lives saved as a result of violations of fundamental human rights.

Kunta Kinte · 12-02-2021 03:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Shocker, some extra people visited the woods while every other social outlet was closed...

Time to close all woods. Can’t be having erosion of the undergrowth

Ah yes the usual self entitled "me me me" sentiments typical of your cohort. Let me guess old buddy. You believe that climate change is a "mild overhyped load of nonsense" too. Right?

completedit · 12-02-2021 03:36PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

At this point I am not "okay" with any lives saved as a result of violations fundamental of human rights.

What violation? You're being asked(under penalty) to stay within 5km, endure potential psychological and economic hardship and alienation while watching Netflix! Stop complaining.

hamburgham · 12-02-2021 03:37PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Here you go. Pretty grim stuff.

It's the stupidity of it which really angers me.

francogarbanzo · 12-02-2021 03:38PM

completedit wrote: »

What violation? You're being asked to stay within 5km, endure potential psychological and economic hardship and alienation and watch Netflix! Stop complaing.

Uh, I am being coerced into staying in my home except to exercise within a 5km perimeter. I don't remember ever being asked. The only time I've been "asked" anything is when the Garda tap on my car window to "ask" where I've been and where I'm going.

[Edit: I just realised you may have been sarcastic there.]

facehugger99 · 12-02-2021 03:39PM

Boggles wrote: »

Fantastic, I'm glad you brought that up again because I asked you the same question and you ignored it.

So, do tell?

What number of deaths are you okay with?

It's good you're asking that question because the sooner people like yourself put on your big-boy pants and realise there is a price on a life, the better.

The very fact that countries don't spend 100% of their tax-revenues on Health funding is an admission that overspending on one particular area will lead to negative consequences for the rest of the population.

Health agencies all over the world make assessments every year as to what is reasonable cost to pay for treatment drugs based around the benefit they provide. The idea that there is no cost we shouldn't pay for treatment is juvenile.

So given we're adding 10's of billions and counting to our public debt - why is this conversation not happening in Ireland?

The infantilization of the debate around this issue is worrying and the politicians playing along with the social-media narrative that 'one life lost is too many' bull****tery is galling.

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:42PM

completedit wrote: »

That's an extremely complicated question to answer.

It was Arthurs question, I think it is a pertinent one.

completedit wrote: »

Can someone actually answer these questions.

Also you did demand answers yourself. No copping out now.

So go, give us a number.

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:43PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

At this point I am not "okay" with any lives saved as a result of violations of fundamental human rights.

Not even your own or the lives of your loved ones?

You sir are a true Patriot or actually maybe whatever the opposite of that is.

Either way, fair play.

completedit · 12-02-2021 03:44PM

Boggles wrote: »

It was Arthurs question, I think it is a pertinent one.

Also you did demand answers yourself. No copping out now.

So go, give us a number.

Well you've shown yourself to not actually care or reluctant to have a conversation.. I'm more interested in hearing your rationale and thought process behind your stance as opposed to concrete figures.

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:44PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's good you're asking that question because the sooner people like yourself put on your big-boy pants and realise there is a price on a life, the better.

The very fact that countries don't spend 100% of their tax-revenues on Health funding is an admission that overspending on one particular area will lead to negative consequences for the rest of the population.

Health agencies all over the world make assessments every year as to what is reasonable cost to pay for treatment drugs based around the benefit they provide. The idea that there is no cost we shouldn't pay for treatment is juvenile.

So given we're adding 10's of billions and counting to our public debt - why is this conversation not happening in Ireland?

The infantilization of the debate around this issue is worrying and the politicians playing along with the social-media narrative that 'one life lost is too many' bull****tery is galling.

And the number is?

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:45PM

completedit wrote: »

Well you've shown yourself to not actually care or reluctant to have a conversation.. I'm more interested in hearing your rationale and thought process behind your stance as opposed to concrete figures.

Hang on, you are demanding others to answer the question but you won't answer it yourself.

That is fairly poor faith posting lad.

Hellrazer · 12-02-2021 03:46PM

Boggles wrote: »

And the number is?

42

:D

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:47PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

42 :D

Bingo.

Pick a teddy from the top shelf.

paw patrol · 12-02-2021 03:47PM

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Revealing comment here.

https://www.facebook.com/balrathwoods

Quote:

To all users of Balrath Wood.

During the lockdown of Covid19, numbers of visitors to the wood greatly increased.
This has resulted in large scale erosion of the undergrowth which has led to many bare soil patches, especially under the trees. This in turn has degraded the biodiversity. To allow the wood to recover, we ask all users to

1) Stay on the designated paths and do not enter the areas under the trees
2) Always keep dogs on leads
3) Bring all waste home, including dog waste

Balrath Wood is a quiet space for walking and not an adventure playground or a public park. To keep the wood open and to maintain its high nature value, we respectfully ask you to adhere to these clear guidelines. Remember we are not the only ones to inhabit this beautiful woodland. Nature needs a space too.

Seems like there is more to the reason for the public closure of this wood than the way 1 or 2 posters here have made it out to be.

you're a funny sort , you clearly didn't believe him and asked for evidence.
Evidence produced and you fly off on a tangent of whataboutery .

you asked for evidence that forrest was closed.
was given
End of

completedit · 12-02-2021 03:49PM

Boggles wrote: »

Not even your own or the lives of your loved ones?

You sir are a true Patriot or actually maybe whatever the opposite of that is.

Either way, fair play.

This is such a cop out.

Surely that matters to you? I think the belief that people are entitled to their freedom is a fair one and surely will factor into our reopening strategy whenever that time comes. I honestly cannot understand your head in the sand view on this. I am anti lockdown but I understand the emotion behind it. I understand we all have loved ones and some of them may be vulnerable. I understand that life is precious and that everyone will do what they can to keep loved ones healthy. It's normal and natural response. What people like me are looking for is a more rational thought through approach. An acceptance that death is an inherent part of our existence. The acceptance that people have a right to live and enjoy freedom and agency in their lives. An acceptance that long-term lockdowns may come with massive negative outcomes. And just a little bit of dialogue about this. I've said to you before that I see your point of view and have incorporated your viewpoints into my own outlook on Covid but you seem very militant and dogmatic in your outlook tbh, as if you are completely oblivious to the the non-health related externatilies borne out of the response to the virus.

facehugger99 · 12-02-2021 03:50PM

Boggles wrote: »

And the number is?

The number is calculated by economists and actuaries based on the amount the current restrictions are costing.

I don't know the answer because I'm not an economist but I know there is an answer.

Maybe try asking yourself why nobody is asking the question of our politicians that are merrily pissing away 10's of billions of euros to dodge any accountability.

Kunta Kinte · 12-02-2021 03:52PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's the same near me.

A woodland walk that's been fenced off with barriers and "STOP. Closed due to COVID" signage.

Absolutely pathetic.

I take great please in fcuking the barrier aside when I walk there every weekend.

Coming from the same poster who takes great pleasure in continually attacking school teachers, healthcare workers etc. who was calling on people to ignore health advice and was crowing about being on foreign holidays last summer instead of staying in Ireland and supporting the local economy and then followed that up by ignoring health protocols when you did come back to the country and gloating about it on this forum. these comments come as no surprise to me. Says a lot about your mentality and also about those here who lap up your rants. I wonder who the absolutely pathetic ones are.

Hellrazer · 12-02-2021 03:54PM

Boggles wrote: »

Bingo.

Pick a teddy from the top shelf.

I dont think its as simple as picking a number off a shelf. I think we have to look at relative yearly rates.

And you know me -Im completely anti-lockdown..actually Im completely anti-everything at the minute but to answer it as best as possible I think and just my opinion here that if the average non covid usual yearly death is for example 200 people per month and we have a spike of say 20% due to a surge in infections then we lock down.

If its 10%-20% we try to stay open.

Its too hard to give an exact figure - it may aswell be 42!!!

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:55PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The number is calculated by economists and actuaries based on the amount the current restrictions are costing.

I don't know the answer because I'm not an economist but I know there is an answer.

You seem to be an expert on everything else and are forthright and determined and matter fact in all your other opinions on covid, but asked a straight question, a pertinent one by Arthur and you go full on dodge.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Maybe try asking yourself why nobody is asking the question of our politicians that are merrily pissing away 10's of billions of euros to dodge any accountability.

Again if you only see the cost and not the value you will only have a negative mindset.

VonLuck · 12-02-2021 03:55PM

Gael23 wrote: »

What about the 80% who are not vulnerable and who’s lives are being ruined by this?

You honestly believe 80% of people's lives have been ruined by Covid? Talk about hyperboles. Maybe you mean 80% of people's lives have been temporarily negatively affected by Covid.

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I’ve asked it to people before and I will ask it again. Do you think we should lock down every winter to prevent the spread of illness?

It’s easy to call something a “weak argument” based on talking about deaths increasing. But what number of deaths are you OK with? How many people do you think it is acceptable should have to die so that you can have the kind of normality you want? Maybe it’s a proportionate increase in average annual deaths based on population increase — in which case your stance would be “oh people die anyway what does it matter if the number doesn’t decrease”?

If you don’t want to lock down every winter, or indeed lockdown at whatever other times of year detailed studies show there is normally an increase of deaths, don’t you think that those people who die in those periods would rather live on for many years after that? Are you going to be morally consistent and say we should lock down for them too, or are you happy to come right on out and say that their lives are a price worth paying for normality?

If you're looking for a number, there isn't one. If you must have some form of metric, it's maintaining ICU capacity to a reasonable level. Once it goes beyond that stage it's not just the vulnerable that are at risk, it's everyone.

What number of deaths would you be comfortable with to relax restrictions?

facehugger99 · 12-02-2021 03:56PM

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Coming from the same poster who takes great pleasure in continually attacking school teachers, healthcare workers etc. who was calling on people to ignore health advice and was crowing about being on foreign holidays last summer instead of staying in Ireland and supporting the local economy and then followed that up by ignoring health protocols when you did come back to the country and gloating about it on this forum. these comments come as no surprise to me. Says a lot about your mentality and also about those here who lap up your rants.

It's good my posts have proved so memorable to you - glad you're following along. Keep it up, you might learn something

I haven't a clue what you've posted previously and don't even feel slightly curious to find out.

francogarbanzo · 12-02-2021 03:57PM

Boggles wrote: »

Not even your own or the lives of your loved ones?

You sir are a true Patriot or actually maybe whatever the opposite of that is.

Either way, fair play.

Yes, I do tend to consider human rights to be important things.

ypres5 · 12-02-2021 03:57PM

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

What I am looking for is simple evidence or back up for claims which for some reason certain posters here seem to be continually reluctant to supply. BTW not surprised to read this type of condescending reply from you.

im not going to get dragged into an argument but you accusing someone of making a condescending reply is peak irony

Boggles · 12-02-2021 03:59PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I dont think its as simple as picking a number off a shelf. I think we have to look at relative yearly rates.

And you know me -Im completely anti-lockdown..actually Im completely anti-everything at the minute but to answer it as best as possible I think and just my opinion here that if the average non covid usual yearly death is for example 200 people per month and we have a spike of say 20% due to a surge in infections then we lock down.

If its 10%-20% we try to stay open.

Its too hard to give an exact figure - it may aswell be 42!!!

It's too hard to give an exact figure because you don't judge the damage a pandemic does or potentially does on just deaths.

If it was, a figure would come a lot easier.

5,000 would be mine.

Silentcorner · 12-02-2021 04:00PM

Has anyone seen the death rates for Nov/Dec, I've seen a figure of approx 3,000 which would put our annual death rate at approx 26,000 (it is about 22,500 up to the end of Oct)...there will always be a delay in the recording of some deaths.

This is a country with an average death rate of around 30,000 people.

Tpcl20 · 12-02-2021 04:00PM

Wow, she was a self-ejecting caller.

completedit · 12-02-2021 04:01PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Has anyone seen the death rates for Nov/Dec, I've seen a figure of approx 3,000 which would put our annual death rate at approx 26,000 (it is about 22,500 up to the end of Oct)...there will always be a delay in the recording of some deaths.

This is a country with an average death rate of around 30,000 people.

We live in a time with facts and figures mean nothing. Someone will come in with some rebuttal that justifies their own outlook, while others will use the figure to justify theirs.

Kunta Kinte · 12-02-2021 04:03PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's good my posts have proved so memorable to you - glad you're following along. Keep it up, you might learn something

I haven't a clue what you've posted previously and don't even feel slightly curious to find out.

Learn something from you? I hope I never have to descend to so low a level as to take in any of your self entitled anti authority rabble rousing rants. By the way lad have you been been pushed off the road by Michael D again lately ?

Threadbanned

12-02-2021 04:04PM

completedit wrote: »

We live in a time with facts and figures mean nothing. Someone will come in with some rebuttal that justifies their own outlook, while others will use the figure to justify theirs.

Age of hysteria, reason has left the building !

Boggles · 12-02-2021 04:06PM

completedit wrote: »

We live in a time with facts and figures mean nothing.

Well no, we live in a time where fact checking has never been easier, we also live in a time where people willingly chose not to do it.

So you get statements like this.

completedit wrote: »

an alleged deadly pandemic.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings