The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dobman88 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're so staunchly against a tiered system, Enquiring, when you're such a big advocate for a level playing field.

A tiered system does that. Let's you play against teams at a similar level and gives you the chance of All Ireland honours.

It happens in all forms of the club and county game with the exception of mens inter county and it makes no sense to not have a tiered championship.

And as you say when you talk about splitting Dublin. People will get used to it, rivalries will form, and you'll have more players with the opportunity to represent their county in an all Ireland final in croke park.

Agree with you on the tiered system. The split though, I’m from a big club and I don’t know anyone who’s support south dublin, or whatever the naysayers want it to be called, it won’t be a county no matter what people want to call it.

Enquiring wrote: »

Because as we saw with Tipperary and Cavan last year, winning at the top level is what matters. A b championship is meaningless. As I've pointed out, over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. 12 counties in the past 10 years. The football championship is alive and vibrant. The hurling championship needs more counties competing, that's the aim, why reduce teams competing in football? Makes no sense.

Instead, let's fund all counties fairly, let's split Dublin, let's pool sponsorship. This is the way forward. Yes, there'll be those in Dublin and Kerry and places like that opposed to it but it's up to those of us in favour of fair competitions to make sure it happens.

Tipp and Cavan would still be competing for Sam Maguire after winning their province, that wont change. It would just give them another shot of all.ireland glory if they got knocked out early and go into B championship.

You can't say you're so vehemently opposed to a tiered system and then say you want fair competitions and call for one county to be split. It doesnt make sense. I want Kerry to beat Dublin, and they will soon, not Fingal, Dublin south, whatever. Dublin.

The funding is starting to be addressed even though theres a long way to go. Splitting Dublin is nonsense. As is pooled sponsorship. That's between a company and a county to decide what they're worth, nobody else.

It just reads like your whole agenda is handicapping Dublin by splitting them and nothing to do with overall fairness.

dobman88 wrote: »

Tipp and Cavan would still be competing for Sam Maguire after winning their province, that wont change. It would just give them another shot of all.ireland glory if they got knocked out early and go into B championship.

You can't say you're so vehemently opposed to a tiered system and then say you want fair competitions and call for one county to be split. It doesnt make sense. I want Kerry to beat Dublin, and they will soon, not Fingal, Dublin south, whatever. Dublin.

The funding is starting to be addressed even though theres a long way to go. Splitting Dublin is nonsense. As is pooled sponsorship. That's between a company and a county to decide what they're worth, nobody else.

It just reads like your whole agenda is handicapping Dublin by splitting them and nothing to do with overall fairness.

The last bit hits the nail on the head. It is pure bitterness, nothing to do with fairness.

dobman88 wrote: »

Tipp and Cavan would still be competing for Sam Maguire after winning their province, that wont change. It would just give them another shot of all.ireland glory if they got knocked out early and go into B championship.

You can't say you're so vehemently opposed to a tiered system and then say you want fair competitions and call for one county to be split. It doesnt make sense. I want Kerry to beat Dublin, and they will soon, not Fingal, Dublin south, whatever. Dublin.

The funding is starting to be addressed even though theres a long way to go. Splitting Dublin is nonsense. As is pooled sponsorship. That's between a company and a county to decide what they're worth, nobody else.

It just reads like your whole agenda is handicapping Dublin by splitting them and nothing to do with overall fairness.

No, my overall agenda is having fair competitions in hurling and football and having as many counties as possible competing. Why are you against that?

Actually, I think the real reason is becoming clear. You want it to go back to the days of Dublin v Kerry. You don't have an issue with crazy levels of funding or sponsorship as long as it suits you.

That's why those in favour of fair play need to stick together and stand up for ourselves. Those on the gravy train want to remain there while kicking other counties down further. The health of Gaelic games is of no interest to you. It's about Kerry getting back to the top. It's the same with the Dublin supporters on this thread. They don't care how many millions they were given, winning All Ireland's is all they care about.

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Majority of them were complete one offs.
A B/2nd tier championship if marketed right, if set up with proper prize/recognition/reward for winners will work.
Just splitting Dublin doesnt help majority of counties. Because Dublins success has done and will do nothing to change what Leitrim, Waterford, Wicklow footballers do overall in any inter county year.
Pooling sponsorship wont necessarily work as how many sponsors will give 200'000 if 80'000 or whatever is potentially going to go to county rivals.

Nobody is against more sides being competitive at the top level most people are against hampering the side at the top unfairly to supposedly make things fair.

As I've said, you fund those counties along with splitting Dublin. We already know that funding minnows can make them competitive at the top level.

You bring up the level of those counties, you remove a county that has been hugely over funded and create 4 new competitive counties, you remove the sponsorship advantage some counties possess and then you'll have a football championship with a huge number of counties competing to win the All Ireland.

In hurling, it may take longer but with funding, more counties will be brought up to standard. It would be baffling as to why anyone would be against this idea except we know the agenda of many on this thread.

Enquiring wrote: »

As I've said, you fund those counties along with splitting Dublin. We already know that funding minnows can make them competitive at the top level.

You bring up the level of those counties, you remove a county that has been hugely over funded and create 4 new competitive counties, you remove the sponsorship advantage some counties possess and then you'll have a football championship with a huge number of counties competing to win the All Ireland.

In hurling, it may take longer but with funding, more counties will be brought up to standard. It would be baffling as to why anyone would be against this idea except we know the agenda of many on this thread.

Big assumption that these 4 counties would be competitive(what would you see as competitive)
There is very few clubs in some of these areas as has been pointed out to you multiple times before.
Many counties other than Dublin get extensive income from sponsorship.
Why would AIG give 500'000 to Dublin if 200'000 maybe is given to other counties. They simply wont. They'll reduce their spending.. Same with Kerry Group. Same with Chill Insurance and Cork etc
You cant talk about being baffled at agendas of people on this thread!

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Big assumption that these 4 counties would be competitive(what would you see as competitive)
There is very few clubs in some of these areas as has been pointed out to you multiple times before.
Many counties other than Dublin get extensive income from sponsorship.
Why would AIG give 500'000 to Dublin if 200'000 maybe is given to other counties. They simply wont. They'll reduce their spending.. Same with Kerry Group. Same with Chill Insurance and Cork etc
You cant talk about being baffled at agendas of people on this thread!

Competitive like the Dublin hurlers. With appropriate funding, new clubs can be established. It was meant to be what the money was for remember? Spreading the game in Dublin and increasing numbers. Again, it shows what the money was really spent on.

Interestingly, bank of Ireland sponsor all 4 provinces in rugby. Very strange. These companies are out for profit for themselves. Being associated with competitions popular all over the country is something they'd be interested in.

My agenda is fair play for all, it's clear that is not replicated by many here.

Enquiring wrote: »

No, my overall agenda is having fair competitions in hurling and football and having as many counties as possible competing. Why are you against that?.

I'm not against it. Im all for it. A tiered system gets more counties competing to win all Ireland's. It's pretty simple.

The rest of your post is just mad man ramblings so I didnt see the point in quoting it but of course I want Kerry to win. I'm from Kerry. I've played football all my life and in normal times went to every game league and championship while making it down for as many of my home club games as often as possible. Why would I not want to see Kerry succeed

Splitting Dublin would probably help Kerry more than most and I'm still against the idea so not sure why you think I'm against fair competition. I'm all for it.

Enquiring wrote: »

No, my overall agenda is having fair competitions in hurling and football and having as many counties as possible competing. Why are you against that?

Actually, I think the real reason is becoming clear. You want it to go back to the days of Dublin v Kerry. You don't have an issue with crazy levels of funding or sponsorship as long as it suits you.

That's why those in favour of fair play need to stick together and stand up for ourselves. Those on the gravy train want to remain there while kicking other counties down further. The health of Gaelic games is of no interest to you. It's about Kerry getting back to the top. It's the same with the Dublin supporters on this thread. They don't care how many millions they were given, winning All Ireland's is all they care about.

Why is that fair ? In soccer for example in most major leagues there are two to three teams tops who can win their championships... around 17/18 teams who are along for the ride and a good cup run if they are lucky, maybe two more vying for Europe..

Fair competition occurs on the field of play... what any county does off it, to achieve sponsorship, fundraising, gifts from whomever... that isn’t unfair, that’s just life... if the chairman of Kerry Group gave Kerry GAA a E200,000 cheque tomorrow, nobody has any right to query it... Kerry built their center of excellence at a cost, according to the developer a cost of 4 million... Dublin did that there would be false teeth flying such would be the outrage... suck it up, don’t envy, building your own success instead of looking at somebody else’s achievements only distracts.

ShyMets wrote: »

A few points. There are pockets of Dublin were Hurling as always been strong so the base was higher then many counties. Secondly, under your plan counties which are predominantly football will divert funding to hurling. For counties with small to medium seized population this will mean less resources available for football and so they will decline in standard.

And thirdly, Offally were successful in both but only for a brief period in the 80's

Dublin were minnows in hurling. Large funding changed that. The funding won't be taken or diverted from anything. It will be added to. That was done in Dublin, are you opposed to it been done elsewhere?

Yes, so it shows it can be done. Instead of funding the big counties and leaving the rest with very little, you fund the little counties and you give them a chance. Kicking them out of the championship would be an unmitigated disaster in these counties.

It's always counties who won't be culled who are in favour of this b championship strangely.

Tiering is a great idea. Would it be 3 or 4 tiers?
Let’s start with Tier 1.
Dublin
Mayo
Kerry
Tyrone
Donegal
Galway
Cork
Roscommon
Cavan
Monaghan.

That could be a starting point. Who would be in the Tier 2 pot?

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Amateur sports still require at the elite level huge levels of funding just for games to go ahead never mind teams be successful.
Soccer cant be boiled down to who has most money wins
Dublin are spending a lot but then again so are Kerry as are Tipp and Limerick in hurling.
Teneo are hardly giving tipp peanuts. same with Kerry Group.


The smaller counties wouldnt be kicked out of the championship. They'd be playing at their own level with the chance for promotion to the top tier. Just like what they do in the league. you know the competition where there is 4 groups of 8 that has promotion and relegation based on the results of the year's games.
In from tipp and tipp would be up and down based on a lot of their recent history of gaelic. would be far from a solid team in the top 16.

How much do teams at the top of leagues in soccer spend compared with teams below them?

Counties are competing at their own level. Over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. They shouldn't be punished because some counties have been grossly over funded. Take counties in Leinster for example, they're going to get booted into the b championship because they can't beat a county spending close to 10 million on wages and development every year.

Come on, that's nonsense.

Enquiring wrote: »

My agenda is to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties.

To do this, splitting Dublin is number one on the list
.

:pac:

This will not do anything to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties. I must say I do admire your dedication to the subject but you're slipping up recently.

dobman88 wrote: »

:pac:

This will not do anything to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties. I must say I do admire your dedication to the subject but you're slipping up recently.

How will it not? You're proposing to have a championship were in one section, if you can't beat a county spending huge sums every year, you'll be kicked out of the championship. It's crazy talk.

Calls for a b championship wouldn't be made if some counties hadn't been moved ahead through enormous over funding. Dublin were been beaten by many counties in Leinster, they went running to Bertie. Kerry were being humiliated by Northern counties and then Dublin. They've invested huge amounts since then.

Competing fairly is an alien concept to you.