ShyMets wrote: » And yet the Club Championship which uses a tired structure is very strong
dobman88 wrote: » I'm not sure why you're so staunchly against a tiered system, Enquiring, when you're such a big advocate for a level playing field. A tiered system does that. Let's you play against teams at a similar level and gives you the chance of All Ireland honours. It happens in all forms of the club and county game with the exception of mens inter county and it makes no sense to not have a tiered championship. And as you say when you talk about splitting Dublin. People will get used to it, rivalries will form, and you'll have more players with the opportunity to represent their county in an all Ireland final in croke park.
Enquiring wrote: » Because as we saw with Tipperary and Cavan last year, winning at the top level is what matters. A b championship is meaningless. As I've pointed out, over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. 12 counties in the past 10 years. The football championship is alive and vibrant. The hurling championship needs more counties competing, that's the aim, why reduce teams competing in football? Makes no sense. Instead, let's fund all counties fairly, let's split Dublin, let's pool sponsorship. This is the way forward. Yes, there'll be those in Dublin and Kerry and places like that opposed to it but it's up to those of us in favour of fair competitions to make sure it happens.
ArielAtom wrote: » Agree with you on the tiered system. The split though, I’m from a big club and I don’t know anyone who’s support south dublin, or whatever the naysayers want it to be called, it won’t be a county no matter what people want to call it.
dobman88 wrote: » Tipp and Cavan would still be competing for Sam Maguire after winning their province, that wont change. It would just give them another shot of all.ireland glory if they got knocked out early and go into B championship. You can't say you're so vehemently opposed to a tiered system and then say you want fair competitions and call for one county to be split. It doesnt make sense. I want Kerry to beat Dublin, and they will soon, not Fingal, Dublin south, whatever. Dublin. The funding is starting to be addressed even though theres a long way to go. Splitting Dublin is nonsense. As is pooled sponsorship. That's between a company and a county to decide what they're worth, nobody else. It just reads like your whole agenda is handicapping Dublin by splitting them and nothing to do with overall fairness.
Lost Ormond wrote: » A tiered championship is whats needed. Nobody expects accrington stanley to be in the same league as Liverpool. A B championship isnt meaningless. Tipp used underage success to boost and build towards that Munster title but the Tommy Murphy cup win in 2005 was huge for football in the county and a real boost for it. Hurling has never really expanded from the same number of counties at the top tier but football has been far more prevalent across the country and not had many more counties competitive in terms of winning trophies.
Enquiring wrote: » Over 20 counties have won provincials since the 90's. The majority of counties can compete as it is. You fund the others to improve their standards. Look at Dublin hurling. The pathway is there. The Tommy Murphy cup was a joke. Any new b championship will go the same way. Actually having a fair system of funding, splitting Dublin and pooling sponsorship is how it has to happen. I'm not sure why anyone is against more counties being competitive at the top level.
Lost Ormond wrote: » Majority of them were complete one offs. A B/2nd tier championship if marketed right, if set up with proper prize/recognition/reward for winners will work. Just splitting Dublin doesnt help majority of counties. Because Dublins success has done and will do nothing to change what Leitrim, Waterford, Wicklow footballers do overall in any inter county year. Pooling sponsorship wont necessarily work as how many sponsors will give 200'000 if 80'000 or whatever is potentially going to go to county rivals. Nobody is against more sides being competitive at the top level most people are against hampering the side at the top unfairly to supposedly make things fair.
Enquiring wrote: » As I've said, you fund those counties along with splitting Dublin. We already know that funding minnows can make them competitive at the top level. You bring up the level of those counties, you remove a county that has been hugely over funded and create 4 new competitive counties, you remove the sponsorship advantage some counties possess and then you'll have a football championship with a huge number of counties competing to win the All Ireland. In hurling, it may take longer but with funding, more counties will be brought up to standard. It would be baffling as to why anyone would be against this idea except we know the agenda of many on this thread.
ShyMets wrote: » In terms of those 20 counties. 5 haven't won a provincial title in 20 years and at least another 5/6 haven't won one in over ten years. So when you look at it like that its not so competitive. While funding is vital, so is population seize. Many counties simply do not have the population seize to maintain a competitive team long term.
Lost Ormond wrote: » Big assumption that these 4 counties would be competitive(what would you see as competitive) There is very few clubs in some of these areas as has been pointed out to you multiple times before. Many counties other than Dublin get extensive income from sponsorship. Why would AIG give 500'000 to Dublin if 200'000 maybe is given to other counties. They simply wont. They'll reduce their spending.. Same with Kerry Group. Same with Chill Insurance and Cork etc You cant talk about being baffled at agendas of people on this thread!
Enquiring wrote: » You can't forget that 10 counties were competing in a province with an over funded behemoth. With the split, this will be gone. It will mean we'll need new championship structures also. Which will be an exciting change to add to it.Monaghan have a population of 60,000 and are competing at the top level. You're forgetting, with splitting Dublin, the population difference from top to bottom won't be that much.
Enquiring wrote: » No, my overall agenda is having fair competitions in hurling and football and having as many counties as possible competing. Why are you against that?.
ShyMets wrote: » But Monaghan play very little of no Hurling. Their funding is manly in ploughed into Football. Now under your plan they would have to divert some of that funding to Hurling. Which would potentially leave becoming less competitive in football
Enquiring wrote: » No, my overall agenda is having fair competitions in hurling and football and having as many counties as possible competing. Why are you against that? Actually, I think the real reason is becoming clear. You want it to go back to the days of Dublin v Kerry. You don't have an issue with crazy levels of funding or sponsorship as long as it suits you. That's why those in favour of fair play need to stick together and stand up for ourselves. Those on the gravy train want to remain there while kicking other counties down further. The health of Gaelic games is of no interest to you. It's about Kerry getting back to the top. It's the same with the Dublin supporters on this thread. They don't care how many millions they were given, winning All Ireland's is all they care about.
dobman88 wrote: » I'm not against it. Im all for it. A tiered system gets more counties competing to win all Ireland's. It's pretty simple. The rest of your post is just mad man ramblings so I didnt see the point in quoting it but of course I want Kerry to win. I'm from Kerry. I've played football all my life and in normal times went to every game league and championship while making it down for as many of my home club games as often as possible. Why would I not want to see Kerry succeed Splitting Dublin would probably help Kerry more than most and I'm still against the idea so not sure why you think I'm against fair competition. I'm all for it.
Enquiring wrote: » You mean like in Dublin? Funding went to both codes and look at how successful it was. Offaly with similar population were competitive in both. It can be done.
Strumms wrote: » Why is that fair ? In soccer for example in most major leagues there are two to three teams tops who can win their championships... around 17/18 teams who are along for the ride and a good cup run if they are lucky, maybe two more vying for Europe.. Fair competition occurs on the field of play... what any county does off it, to achieve sponsorship, fundraising, gifts from whomever... that isn’t unfair, that’s just life... if the chairman of Kerry Group gave Kerry GAA a E200,000 cheque tomorrow, nobody has any right to query it... Kerry built their center of excellence at a cost, according to the developer a cost of 4 million... Dublin did that there would be false teeth flying such would be the outrage... suck it up, don’t envy, building your own success instead of looking at somebody else’s achievements only distracts.
ShyMets wrote: » A few points. There are pockets of Dublin were Hurling as always been strong so the base was higher then many counties. Secondly, under your plan counties which are predominantly football will divert funding to hurling. For counties with small to medium seized population this will mean less resources available for football and so they will decline in standard. And thirdly, Offally were successful in both but only for a brief period in the 80's
Enquiring wrote: » Good example. In soccer it's about who has the most money. That's not what the GAA is about so we must stamp it out. This is an amateur sport. Dublin spending close to 10 million per year on expenses and development or other counties buying success with huge sponsorship, this goes against the very ethos of the GAA. So some people from the counties involved will be upset when we split them or divide sponsorship fairly, so what? If we don't do it, our games will be destroyed.
Enquiring wrote: » Dublin were minnows in hurling. Large funding changed that. The funding won't be taken or diverted from anything. It will be added to. That was done in Dublin, are you opposed to it been done elsewhere? Yes, so it shows it can be done. Instead of funding the big counties and leaving the rest with very little, you fund the little counties and you give them a chance. Kicking them out of the championship would be an unmitigated disaster in these counties. It's always counties who won't be culled who are in favour of this b championship strangely.
Enquiring wrote: » Why kick counties out to a b competition? Wouldn't the All Ireland championship be much better with many counties competing instead of a select few? Yes, you want Kerry to win and you put that ahead of the health of Gaelic games in other counties. My agenda is to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties. To do this, splitting Dublin is number one on the list, funding all counties comes next along with pooling sponsorship. You seem to be appalled by the thought of every county competing fairly.
Lost Ormond wrote: » Amateur sports still require at the elite level huge levels of funding just for games to go ahead never mind teams be successful. Soccer cant be boiled down to who has most money wins Dublin are spending a lot but then again so are Kerry as are Tipp and Limerick in hurling. Teneo are hardly giving tipp peanuts. same with Kerry Group. The smaller counties wouldnt be kicked out of the championship. They'd be playing at their own level with the chance for promotion to the top tier. Just like what they do in the league. you know the competition where there is 4 groups of 8 that has promotion and relegation based on the results of the year's games. In from tipp and tipp would be up and down based on a lot of their recent history of gaelic. would be far from a solid team in the top 16.
Enquiring wrote: » My agenda is to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties. To do this, splitting Dublin is number one on the list .
dobman88 wrote: » "Kick them out" jaysus. They still have the chance to play for Sam Maguire. You seem to be deliberately ignoring that. But with a B championship they get another crack at all Ireland honours. Look at when Leitrim won their hurling all Ireland, a mighty day for them. Not possible without a tiered system. Same for Antrim last year who played in a pretty decent final against Kerry. Decimating Dublin will not suddenly turn Wicklow or Fermanagh into all Ireland contenders. But having a tiered championship gives them an opportunity to play for Sam and also still win an all Ireland if they get knocked out before winning a provincial. If you want a level playing field, this is obvious but for some reason, you're massively against it.
dobman88 wrote: » :pac: This will not do anything to improve the health of Gaelic games in all counties. I must say I do admire your dedication to the subject but you're slipping up recently.
