Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

cnocbui · 08-02-2021 05:09PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I get all that and somewhat agree, Portugal/Malta/Singapore are all nice places with plenty of sun.

BUT unless you a sitting on million+ of crypto (quite possible for some who didnt do dumb stuff like buying pizzas ) thats quite a big move, its easy to get carried away in current euphoria but this is the 5th spike in Bitcoin prices i am experiencing, (30$ in 2011 was it?, 2000$ in 2014, 16000$ in 2018, 12,000 in 2019) i mean unless you sell right now at this very price and you dont endup having your bank account locked and revenue looking sideways at you over sudden bonanza is it actually a realistic plan? we might land at anywhere from 100,000 to 1000 bitcoin next few months and then months and/or years of flat growth

Let me be very clear: I have been planning on emigrating for several years, I am not geting carried away by current events in the slightest. This is the third country I have lived in, so I'm not new to this rodeo and would be more familiar with the practicalities than you, I suspect. I am not emigrating because of CGT, it's just a black forest cake with a metre thick layer of icing and a kilo of kirsch soaked cherries on top, served up by a scantily clad 10, with a naughty wink.

Revenue have no cause to lock my bank account, I pay all taxes that I should. I have not the slighest intention of selling any crypto until I am permanently living elsewhere. No tax dodging is intende or is going to happen.

To put it another way, bitcoin could fall to zero and it wouldn't change my plans in the slightest.

Pdoghue · 08-02-2021 05:32PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I have many reasons for wishing to emigrate, but Irish taxes, the cost and need for expensive Irish legal services all your life, the piss-poor third world health system, general Irish dysfunctionality, the absolutely crap weather and and lack of sunshine, the worlds highest inheritance taxes, the worlds highest CGT, are high among them. DIRT. Europes highest car ownership costs. Thick politicians like Gormley being allowed to make policy and the general sway socialist thinking has in this country...

Yes, some people are actually thinking of leaving this soaking wet socialist paradise and find the prospect enticing, and not at all a negative.

You mean John Gormley? and what's your alternative? Do you think we have a socialist government for example?

cnocbui · 08-02-2021 05:46PM

Pdoghue wrote: »

You mean John Gormley? and what's your alternative? Do you think we have a socialist government for example?

Yes, and I'm not going there.

BrandonBay86 · 08-02-2021 05:57PM

The pubs must have reopened, pintmen nowhere to be seen.

KilOit · 08-02-2021 06:09PM

BrandonBay86 wrote: »

The pubs must have reopened, pintmen nowhere to be seen.

What's frustrating is at peak bear market he was front and centre fudding the hell out of crypto when it was the best time to buy. He probably put a lot of people off making a lot of money. He should be here now fudding the market when people could sell at a profit

grindle · 08-02-2021 06:20PM

KilOit wrote: »

What's frustrating is at peak bear market he was front and centre fudding the hell out of crypto when it was the best time to buy. He probably put a lot of people off making a lot of money. He should be here now fudding the market when people could sell at a profit

He'll be back when it's 40-50% down, don't worry. Strong group of sadacts who reactivate when prices go down.
Is money being printed at levels Bitcoin or any other crypto can't keep up with? Yep.
Has that been done for decades? Yep.
Will they continue doing it while the major populace still doesn't recognise it? Yep.
Should your money stay in an asset being murdered by inflation or in a deflationary asset which they want to use? Up to you.

Dohnjoe · 08-02-2021 06:37PM

Crypto forums full of people cashing out to pay mortgages, etc, very 2017-esque

Am curious to see how Tesla will handle people paying for cars in crypto, BTC moved 10% today in less than the time it takes to send BTC, so will be interesting.

OEP · 08-02-2021 06:40PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Crypto forums full of people cashing out to pay mortgages, etc, very 2017-esque

Am curious to see how Tesla will handle people paying for cars in crypto, BTC moved 10% today in less than the time it takes to send BTC, so will be interesting.

Maybe it's a bet on the long term increase in value of BTC so that any payments now will be worth more in the future. It's also unlikely there'll be many Teslas bought with BTC

grindle · 08-02-2021 06:45PM

I'm interested in that too, but it seems like Elon has been shilled by Michael Saylor. They had a meeting a few weeks ago and then this?

They're not interested in how people pay for their car or software, they just need to imbue people with belief so they can comfortably sell at a profit whether it's 400% or 1% profit. If the technology is decentralised that's a bonus, but not a bonus above real dollars to them.

Dohnjoe · 08-02-2021 06:58PM

OEP wrote: »

Maybe it's a bet on the long term increase in value of BTC so that any payments now will be worth more in the future. It's also unlikely there'll be many Teslas bought with BTC

I'd agree. I know that one of the reasons Steam dropped crypto was that returns were tricky as hell, a few days later there could be a big swing, but that shouldn't be an issue with Tesla's.

Bob24 · 08-02-2021 07:00PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Crypto forums full of people cashing out to pay mortgages, etc, very 2017-esque

Am curious to see how Tesla will handle people paying for cars in crypto, BTC moved 10% today in less than the time it takes to send BTC, so will be interesting.

Doubt they’ll price anything in BTC. I think they’ll probably offer BTC payment but based on an invoice in USD and they will convert the funds to USD immediately after the payment is processed. Also when comes the time to pay, they’ll request a BTC amount which is slightly higher than the actual USD price and give a rather short time limit for the payment to be completed, in order to cover their volatility risk.

Pretty much what all crypto payment services are doing.

Dohnjoe · 08-02-2021 07:05PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Doubt they’ll price anything in BTC. I think they’lol probably offer BTC payment but based on an invoice in USD and they will convert the funds to USD immediately after the payment is processed. Also when comes the time to pay, they’ll request a BTC amount which is slightly higher than the actual USD price and give a rather short time limit for the payment to be completed, in order to cover their volatility risk.

Pretty much what all crypto payment services are doing.

All those extra hurdles, sounds much easier just to pay in USD, which is what I suspect most customers will do. But at least now we have Tesla invested in BTC, which will make them shill it for us to boost value, it's all good.

Bob24 · 08-02-2021 07:22PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

All those extra hurdles, sounds much easier just to pay in USD, which is what I suspect most customers will do. But at least now we have Tesla invested in BTC, which will make them shill it for us to boost value, it's all good.

I guess the idea is to be the “poor” holder’s Lambo.

If someone gained wealth quickly with bitcoins and wants to pay with them, why not taking it?

Dohnjoe · 08-02-2021 07:26PM

Bob24 wrote: »

I guess the idea is to be the “poor” holder’s Lambo.

If someone gained wealth quickly with bitcoins and wants to pay with them, why not taking it?

I think it's a clever move, regardless of the technical logistics of it. Tesla accepting payment in BTC can only be beneficial to their investment in BTC as an asset.

shrapnel222 · 08-02-2021 07:47PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

All those extra hurdles, sounds much easier just to pay in USD, which is what I suspect most customers will do. But at least now we have Tesla invested in BTC, which will make them shill it for us to boost value, it's all good.

I'm pretty sure there is No CGT to pay if you use your bitcoin to pay for things, so buying a 50k car might be a very attractive to many.

Dohnjoe · 08-02-2021 07:58PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there is No CGT to pay if you use your bitcoin to pay for things, so buying a 50k car might be a very attractive to many.

I am pretty sure there is tax to pay (or certainly will be in the near future). Otherwise people will use it as a loophole to avoid paying tax on their gains.

Bus Wanker · 08-02-2021 08:06PM

What is everyone's thoughts on selling now? I have a couple of k in bitcoin and eth. Up around 50% now. Don't particularly need the money but this feels a lot like the last boom and bust. Just wondering does anyone feel the same or think there's more mileage in it?

shrapnel222 · 08-02-2021 08:14PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I am 99% sure this is wrong and there is CGT liability, you converted 1 asset into euro/usd (the car would be priced in euro i presume regardless of payment method) and then bought another (rapidly depreciating :P asset) but theres a taxable event in the middle, the conversion by lets say bitpay to euro. Anyways its all speculation lets see of Tesla actually do offer crypto as payment option.

That's the point though, there is no conversion to euro, if you can pay by bitcoin. There's obviously an equivalence, but if you're priced in bitcoin and pay Tesla in bitcoin there is no conversion and no gains event. You can buy currency (USD gbp etc) as long as you spend it (retail, holiday, buying an asset etc.) , it's only when you speculate, and exchange against other currencies that it becomes liable to CGT. Could be way off here, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.

Bob24 · 08-02-2021 08:21PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there is No CGT to pay if you use your bitcoin to pay for things, so buying a 50k car might be a very attractive to many.

There is definitely CGT. Would be a bit too easy otherwise ;-)

BrandonBay86 · 08-02-2021 08:25PM

Bus Wanker wrote: »

What is everyone's thoughts on selling now? I have a couple of k in bitcoin and eth. Up around 50% now. Don't particularly need the money but this feels a lot like the last boom and bust. Just wondering does anyone feel the same or think there's more mileage in it?

Diamond hands here. Up 1000’s%.

Not spending any BTC until $300k ish.

Don’t fancy swapping to a depreciating currency / asset.

Bob24 · 08-02-2021 08:26PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

That's the point though, there is no conversion to euro, if you can pay by bitcoin. There's obviously an equivalence, but if you're priced in bitcoin and pay Tesla in bitcoin there is no conversion and no gains event. You can buy currency (USD gbp etc) as long as you spend it (retail, holiday, buying an asset etc.) , it's only when you speculate, and exchange against other currencies that it becomes liable to CGT. Could be way off here, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.

As far as CGT is concerned, exchanging an asset for something else is deemed to be a disposal at the current market price.

See the the third bullet point of the overview section here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/index.aspx

shrapnel222 · 08-02-2021 08:52PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

That's the point though, there is no conversion to euro, if you can pay by bitcoin. There's obviously an equivalence, but if you're priced in bitcoin and pay Tesla in bitcoin there is no conversion and no gains event. You can buy currency (USD gbp etc) as long as you spend it (retail, holiday, buying an asset etc.) , it's only when you speculate, and exchange against other currencies that it becomes liable to CGT. Could be way off here, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.

Went digging a little further and it would appear that cryptocurrency is not considered as a currency, so the above isn't applicable. Carry on so ;-)

JibJabWibWab · 08-02-2021 09:24PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

That's the point though, there is no conversion to euro, if you can pay by bitcoin. There's obviously an equivalence, but if you're priced in bitcoin and pay Tesla in bitcoin there is no conversion and no gains event. You can buy currency (USD gbp etc) as long as you spend it (retail, holiday, buying an asset etc.) , it's only when you speculate, and exchange against other currencies that it becomes liable to CGT. Could be way off here, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.

You're correct about one thing, you are WAY off.

Disposal of BTC to buy a Tesla would give 2 points of reference. BTC value and Tesla value.

Computer says no. Computer says you are incorrect.

Irish_rat · 08-02-2021 09:50PM

Cake up 26% today, keep an eye on it folks!

deathbomber · 08-02-2021 10:12PM

Irish_rat wrote: »

Cake up 26% today, keep an eye on it folks!

Isn't tbe founder the good doctor Hosp? Complete 🐍 snakes are not to be trusted in life!

deathbomber · 08-02-2021 10:15PM

Bus Wanker wrote: »

What is everyone's thoughts on selling now? I have a couple of k in bitcoin and eth. Up around 50% now. Don't particularly need the money but this feels a lot like the last boom and bust. Just wondering does anyone feel the same or think there's more mileage in it?

Depends on your goal, ie do you want to get minted and thus willing to lose it all as it's worth the chance or are you just looking to make a few quid, possibly to reinvest. Sounds like your undecided, for me that equals take some profit and let the rest ride

Bus Wanker · 08-02-2021 10:24PM

deathbomber wrote: »

Depends on your goal, ie do you want to get minted and thus willing to lose it all as it's worth the chance or are you just looking to make a few quid, possibly to reinvest. Sounds like your undecided, for me that equals take some profit and let the rest ride

Not sure I have enough invested to get minted but you make a great point. Not worth cashing out right now as I don't need the funds right now thankfully. Will ride it out for the long term. Cheers.

cnocbui · 08-02-2021 10:34PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

Went digging a little further and it would appear that cryptocurrency is not considered as a currency, so the above isn't applicable. Carry on so ;-)

Just stop. It's an asset. It applies as much to a Jack Yeats oil painting as it does to Bitcoin. If you convert Bitcoin into Doge, Doge into Etherium on an exchange, each one of those transactions is a chargeable event where you have to work out the Euro values and are liable for CGT if you have gained via the transaction. Not being fiat currency has nothing to do with it, otherwise somone could buy an oil painting from the boot of a car for €20, recognise it's a long lost masterpiece, and swap it for a €1.2 million house and legitimately avoid CGT.

Which you can not.

Lex Luthor · 08-02-2021 11:51PM

Bob24 wrote: »

There is definitely CGT. Would be a bit too easy otherwise ;-)

what if the car is priced in bitcoin rather than USD or EUR?

BrandonBay86 · 08-02-2021 11:52PM

$45,000.

Nice

Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

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