RAW Superthread

Smacruairi wrote: »

The undertaker disagrees with you.

You say what I say and the answer is always ".... But The Undertaker" congratulations, you've referenced 1 example that was successful, an example that debuted over 30 years ago (!!!) and the dozens of other stupid universe destroying nonsense that came since all failed. And strictly speaking for myself here I hated the Taker gimmick! And even if you liked it, The Fiend stuff is even worse and Bray is not The Undertaker.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

You say what I say and the answer is always ".... But The Undertaker" congratulations, you've referenced 1 example that was successful, an example that debuted over 30 years ago (!!!) and the dozens of other stupid universe destroying nonsense that came since all failed. And strictly speaking for myself here I hated the Taker gimmick! And even if you liked it, The Fiend stuff is even worse and Bray is not The Undertaker.

Broken Matt Hardy? People were losing their sh1te over then segments also (not saying you specifically), and this is just similar. There is a place in wrestling for these sort of acts. If you dont approve, you dont have to watch.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Stupid gimmick that didn't draw a dime for any company he did it in.

And Dáithí1989, I can assure you, I see everything.

Stupid gimmick that still drew rating/views/got people talking!

If you don’t like the Alexa/Wyatt segments, then skip by them and watch the rest of the show. And I said, if you don’t like the product, why waste so much time a week watching? 3.5-4 hours (missus the ads!), just to give out about it! Strange.. Just my opinion!

Smacruairi wrote: »

From the last few years alone, you have a lad in njpw who plays air guitar, you have a lad who wrestles with hands in his pockets in AEW, you had a lad who had 7deities in impact, you have the fiend in wwe. Face it, wrestling is a variety, and that's what sells m, especially in the mid card so u can take your champion so super serious.

And undertaker the only one in 30 years, yeah that's a ridiculous comment. Go to any ott event and they'll have a match in the middle that's just ridiculous ****e fun. When the bucks came here they took a phone call during the match for the lulz and got a "this is awesome chant". Wrestling is meant to be fun, if i just want strong style, i know where to go. Me, I like variety,and I very much think I'm not on my own.

OK let's go through those.

Tanahashi - the most ridiculous one first. It's a joke, nobody, not the crowd or him, believe he's playing an imaginary guitar. It's a cute show ender, not a universe destroying monstrosity with a delusional ex guitarist turned pro wrestler.

Orange Cassidy - mid card goof, whose matches differ significantly in AEW than they do on the indies so as not to be universe destroying. The heels don't sell the slow shin kicks, they laugh at him and then he turns it on and he catches you by surprise. He's not for me, but he's not a universe destroying wrestler and has no place in a conversation with The Fiend.

Broken Hardy is dirt and belongs in a bin.

I'm not looking for RINGS here or UWFI, and sure there'll be stuff on shows I don't like. And if the comedy is good then even better. But, when this stuff becomes the focus of your show, when it's in the main events, when it permeates other programmes, when the existence of it breaks the rules of your universe, that's when I have a problem.

And if you can point out a modern promotion outside of maybe Josh Barnett's Bloodsport deal that does a super serious card start to finish then please point me in that direction because I don't know of it. My problem isn't with an aspect of comedy, because in that company The Fiend stuff is not treated as comedy, it's when you bend the fundamental rules of your own company then everything from that point on is devalued.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It popped 1 rating. 1. I don't care who was talking, they weren't watching the show. They weren't buying ppvs. The benefit to the company was 1 popped rating. Stupid gimmick that didn't draw a dime.

And if how you defend something is with a "if you don't love it, leave it" argument then I don't think I need to say anything else.

And if you think Broken Matt Hardy “wasnt worth a dime”, then I don’t think I need to say anything else either, but I’ll give you one more post anyway!

Broken Matt was the most talked about Gimmick when he started it with TNA - I was at the WM when the Hardys returned, and 90%+ of the crowd chanting “Delete Delete Delete” showed the gimmick worked. On the way same D Bryan got “Yes Yes Yes” working, but you might not agree with that either!

The “E” in WWE is for entertainment - the Bliss/Wyatt segments add the “entertainment” side to it. Yes, it’s not everyone cup of tea, but its getting the views!

Last week, Bliss segment gets 5.4m views on Youtube; week before 2.1m and and Fireball with Orton was 4.5m - therefore it is getting the views! But hey, these have no place in Wrestling apparently!

daithi1989 wrote: »

And if you think Broken Matt Hardy “wasnt worth a dime”, then I don’t think I need to say anything else either, but I’ll give you one more post anyway!

Broken Matt was the most talked about Gimmick when he started it with TNA - I was at the WM when the Hardys returned, and 90%+ of the crowd chanting “Delete Delete Delete” showed the gimmick worked. On the way same D Bryan got “Yes Yes Yes” working, but you might not agree with that either!

The “E” in WWE is for entertainment - the Bliss/Wyatt segments add the “entertainment” side to it. Yes, it’s not everyone cup of tea, but its getting the views!

Last week, Bliss segment gets 5.4m views on Youtube; week before 2.1m and and Fireball with Orton was 4.5m - therefore it is getting the views! But hey, these have no place in Wrestling apparently!

Cool. So, I've said he popped one rating. Aside from that 1(!!!) rating, give me a quarter hour that he popped. Show me a ppv buy rate that he popped. Seriously, you're telling me this guy was the hottest thing in wrestling, back it up. Show me a number he's responsible for outside of 1 good Impact rating. You can't. Know why? It doesn't exist! For comparison sake, I can point out, in a variety of ways, how the Omega/Callis story has popped numbers for Impact, how it's increased demo viewership and increased numbers on their Twitch stream. Know why I can do that? Because it happened and those numbers are readily available.

"it's getting the views" ironically, it isn't though is it. In fact Raw's rating decline has not been turned around by The Fiend. In the quarter hours The Fiend does not pop strong numbers (especially for a main event pushed wrestler) Bliss does not have strong quarter hours either so who exactly is watching because of these two. YouTube views? They mean next to nothing! And have practically zero effect on anything. Where it matters, in TV ratings, these two are a bust.

And I'd be sympathetic but RollieFingers just posted this week's ratings on the thread. Those numbers are available to you, the deeper breakdowns are available too. So no, don't tell me they're "getting the views" when the ratings breakdown each week tell me that that's blatantly untrue.

J. Marston wrote: »

Edge teasing that he's gonna be on NXT this week.

He did mention wanting to face Finn around the time NXT Takeover Dublin was meant to happen but of course it won't happen. Cool to see them interact though if they do.

EDIT- Been confirmed now that he will be on NXT on Wednesday.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Cool. So, I've said he popped one rating. Aside from that 1(!!!) rating, give me a quarter hour that he popped. Show me a ppv buy rate that he popped. Seriously, you're telling me this guy was the hottest thing in wrestling, back it up. Show me a number he's responsible for outside of 1 good Impact rating. You can't. Know why? It doesn't exist! For comparison sake, I can point out, in a variety of ways, how the Omega/Callis story has popped numbers for Impact, how it's increased demo viewership and increased numbers on their Twitch stream. Know why I can do that? Because it happened and those numbers are readily available.

"it's getting the views" ironically, it isn't though is it. In fact Raw's rating decline has not been turned around by The Fiend. In the quarter hours The Fiend does not pop strong numbers (especially for a main event pushed wrestler) Bliss does not have strong quarter hours either so who exactly is watching because of these two. YouTube views? They mean next to nothing! And have practically zero effect on anything. Where it matters, in TV ratings, these two are a bust.

And I'd be sympathetic but RollieFingers just posted this week's ratings on the thread. Those numbers are available to you, the deeper breakdowns are available too. So no, don't tell me they're "getting the views" when the ratings breakdown each week tell me that that's blatantly untrue.

If you want to talk bout TNA viewership, and how Omega/Callis popped their numbers; they went from 166k to 221k (from an article I read, but open to correction). During Broken Matt Hardy days, they were drawing 300k, jumping to 410k for match vs Jeff (presuming this in the “one pop” you keep going on about?) So Omega/Callis hasnt even brought them back to where Hardy had them!

Most shows ratings are dropping due to developing ways to watch TV now. NBA and NFL also have a decline in numbers. And before you state what viewership used to be, I know they arent what they used to be. Lack of a crowd is a contributing factor to this also, in my opinion.

You mentioned that you watch highlights most week; presuming Youtube is one of the most popular videos website, its safe to assume that Youtube views do mean something then, as others who dont watch live may also do the same!

Also begs the question; if you dont like Wyatt/Bliss, why you watch these highlights to know whats going on!?

I’ll be honest, I’d rather watch a Bray/Bliss segment than a lad with his Hands in his pockets!

Anyway, I’m done with this debate now. Think its best we just agree to disagree!

daithi1989 wrote: »

If you want to talk bout TNA viewership, and how Omega/Callis popped their numbers; they went from 166k to 221k (from an article I read, but open to correction). During Broken Matt Hardy days, they were drawing 300k, jumping to 410k for match vs Jeff (presuming this in the “one pop” you keep going on about?)

Most shows ratings are dropping due to developing ways to watch TV now. NBA and NFL also have a decline in numbers. And before you state what viewership used to be, I know they arent what they used to be. Lack of a crowd is a contributing factor to this also, in my opinion.

You mentioned that you watch highlights most week; presuming Youtube is one of the most popular videos website, its safe to assume that Youtube views do mean something then, as others who dont watch live may also do the same!

Also begs the question; if you dont like Wyatt/Bliss, why you watch these highlights to know whats going on!?

I’ll be honest, I’d rather watch a Bray/Bliss segment than a lad with his Hands in his pockets!

Anyway, I’m done with this debate now. Think its best we just agree to disagree!

Infact if you span out his run thus far you'll see an increase in total viewers but, more importantly, a heavy increase in their Demo numbers. Directly correlating with the Omega story. It's a good example (because it's the same company) of what a drawing story looks like and what a non drawing story looked like because after the initial Broken thing it was done, diminishing returns that diminished extremely fast.

That's something people always say yet WWE's viewing figures has declined more than those other brands so that never holds up either.

Actually I gif, it doesn't matter a jot though unless they turn those views into weekly viewers (which ratings show they can't do) or Network subscribers (they haven't or they wouldn't have sold the thing).

And correlating a mid card comedy act with a male and female main eventer and a story that regularly appears in several segments of Raw and in big ppv matches seems a little disingenuous at best.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Just a bit of context too. In a year that's been absolutely dominated by The Fiend and all of that type of nonsense. Raw's rating was 1.8 million, 500,000 fans down on where last year's post Raw Rumble was. 500,000 people and I've got people telling me "but people like to watch The Fiend" you either have the numbers to back up your case or not and this one is cut and dry, The Fiend stuff has absolutely been a contributing factor in running off large swathes of the audience.

You're now just arguing with yourself at this point! As my last post ended "Think its best we just agree to disagree"

So weird to hear Jeff refer to himself and Carlito as old timers.