Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Hmob · 07-02-2021 10:02AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Morning lads. How's everyone enjoying lockdown? How much more can we take

Some can take it, some can't

This will be a lesson in how not to deal with a mild pandemic

GazzaL · 07-02-2021 10:06AM

I only just noticed the propaganda on the electronic road signs. ****in' hell...

"Keep your guard up"
"Stranger danger"
"Hold firm"
"Heave"
"Stay safe"

Graham · 07-02-2021 10:06AM

Hmob wrote: »

This will be a lesson in how not to deal with a mild pandemic

Certainly for some of the population.

Best thing is not to obsess about it and find something to get on with.

pjohnson · 07-02-2021 10:08AM

Just caught up. Now its an ice-cream fraudster thats the peoples champion.

Why is it so often in this thread that its the criminals that get the plaudits while the Gardai get the criticism?

Interesting pattern.

GazzaL · 07-02-2021 10:17AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-one-in-government-has-appetite-to-push-back-against-holohan-1.4477368?mode=amp

Groundhog Day 2021. We’re here again with the Government not Governing and NPHET running the show with Covid as their only concern. Holohan throwing the vaccine campaign into chaos and the Government just stand idly by.
We’ve had this in the first lockdown, Oct/Nov and now.
Sinn Fein & opposition have destroyed any chance of it either by repeatedly stating ‘The Government went against Tony & NPHET’ at Christmas so the opposition are an even worse option.
After listening to Holohan at press conferences, I firmly believe he wants lockdown until the vaccines are administered. It’s his only idea & strategy.

Imagine being the Government that handed over all power to one non-elected man, the man who was at the heart of the cervical check scandal. Sinn Féin, the weakest opposition in history, are cheerleading the Government and NPHET.

Is it any surprise that the country is being run into the ground given that the people who are now running the show are responsible for the failed cluster**** HSE?

suicide_circus · 07-02-2021 10:30AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Imagine being the Government that handed over all power to one non-elected man, the man who was at the heart of the cervical check scandal. Sinn F, the weakest opposition in history, are cheerleading the Government and NPHET.

Is it any surprise that the country is being run into the ground given that the people who are now running the show are responsible for the failed cluster**** HSE?

How dare you mention His Grace's past f*ck ups!!!1

Graham · 07-02-2021 10:34AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Imagine being the Government that handed over all power to one non-elected man

Not like those other countries around the globe that hold regular elections for chief medical officer :rolleyes:

GazzaL · 07-02-2021 10:39AM

Graham wrote: »

Not like those other countries around the globe that hold regular elections for chief medical officer :rolleyes:

Quoted, to highlight the level of intellect of the pro restrictions crowd.

pjohnson · 07-02-2021 10:40AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Quoted, to highlight the level of intellect of the pro restrictions crowd.

So you dont want an unelected CMO OR an elected CMO. That explains quite a lot actually.

07-02-2021 10:43AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

How dare you mention His Grace's past f*ck ups!!!1

These type of comments are just so witty and so clever.

Graham · 07-02-2021 10:44AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Quoted, to highlight the level of intellect of the pro restrictions crowd.

Classy post GazzaL, great to see you're keeping the standards consistent.

I guess it's much easier then actually debating the point

07-02-2021 10:46AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Quoted, to highlight the level of intellect of the pro restrictions crowd.

Careful now Gaza. Some may actually take a look at your posing history. The last few days alone contain some doozies

GazzaL · 07-02-2021 10:48AM

pjohnson wrote: »

So you dont want an unelected CMO OR an elected CMO. That explains quite a lot actually.

Graham wrote: »

Classy post GazzaL, great to see you're keeping the standards consistent.

I guess it's much easier then actually debating the point

Come back to reality lads. You have completely misinterpreted the point.

07-02-2021 10:57AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Come back to reality lads. You have completely misinterpreted the point.

Like the now deleted post from yesterday where you quite clearly stated that anyone who expressed any understanding for the need for restrictions were stupid?

Ted_YNWA · 07-02-2021 10:59AM

GazzaL wrote: »

Imagine being the Government that handed over all power to one non-elected man, the man who was at the heart of the cervical check scandal. Sinn Féin, the weakest opposition in history, are cheerleading the Government and NPHET.

Is it any surprise that the country is being run into the ground given that the people who are now running the show are responsible for the failed cluster**** HSE?

Mod - Threadbanned

Boggles · 07-02-2021 11:01AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-one-in-government-has-appetite-to-push-back-against-holohan-1.4477368?mode=amp

Groundhog Day 2021. We’re here again with the Government not Governing and NPHET running the show with Covid as their only concern. Holohan throwing the vaccine campaign into chaos and the Government just stand idly by.
We’ve had this in the first lockdown, Oct/Nov and now.
Sinn Fein & opposition have destroyed any chance of it either by repeatedly stating ‘The Government went against Tony & NPHET’ at Christmas so the opposition are an even worse option.
After listening to Holohan at press conferences, I firmly believe he wants lockdown until the vaccines are administered. It’s his only idea & strategy.

Much the like the author of the piece, you have misconstrued reality in order to garner outrage.

pconn062 · 07-02-2021 11:01AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

So the National Immunisation Advisory Committee said the AstraZeneca vaccine could and should be given to the over 70s but the God Emperor said no?

Absolutely incredible isn't it how much power one unelected official can hold. Why did we have an NIAC if it's going to be Tony's way or the highway anyway?

07-02-2021 11:03AM

pconn062 wrote: »

Absolutely incredible isn't it how much power one unelected official can hold. Why did we have an NIAC if it's going to be Tony's way or the highway anyway?

A half baked opinion piece that misconstrued facts is not reality.

pconn062 · 07-02-2021 11:05AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A half baked opinion piece that misconstrued facts is not reality.

Ok so which parts of the article are false? Specifically.

07-02-2021 11:12AM

pconn062 wrote: »

Ok so which parts of the article are false? Specifically.

The NIAC advised that where possible over 70’s should get the mRNA vaccines ahead of the AZ. The HSE and CMO decided it was possible. The Irish times invented an argument because all many Irish journalists appear to be able to talk about is interpersonal relationships, once fact and science come into it they are lost.

CruelSummer · 07-02-2021 11:16AM

Boggles wrote: »

Much the like the author of the piece, you have misconstrued reality in order to garner outrage.

Can you explain how I have misconstrued and what did I misconstrue? Are you saying Dr Holohan did not override the decision? Have people lost sight of reality and are refusing to allow the indefinite lockdown strategy and those promoting it to be questioned?

There's a long read piece from Fergal Bowers in RTE also yesterday, confirming it was Holohan who wanted it changed, not the NIAC:
"The NIAC did not advise that the AstraZeneca vaccine should not be given to people over 70. It recommended that the AstraZeneca vaccine be administered for those aged 65 years and older in two doses at an interval of 4-6 weeks.

It also stated that the best vaccine anyone can receive at this time is the vaccine that can be administered soonest.

But all things considered, including the NIAC and European Medicines Agency views, the Chief Medical Officer advised the Government that the vaccine should not be given to people over 70. The reason is that those who are most at risk should get the most effective vaccine. "

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0205/1195396-reasons-to-be-cheerful-pandemic/

Do you also support Dr Holohan's assertion that this summer, we might only be allowed out of the house to a beach in our own 'locality' - in 6 months time.

Graham · 07-02-2021 11:18AM

I can't help but think some are unaware that the CMO/NPHET only make recommendations.

07-02-2021 11:28AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you explain how I have misconstrued and what did I misconstrue? Are you saying Dr Holohan did not override the decision? Have people lost sight of reality and are refusing to allow the indefinite lockdown strategy and those promoting it to be questioned?

There's a long read piece from Fergal Bowers in RTE also yesterday, confirming it was Holohan who wanted it changed, not the NIAC:
"The NIAC did not advise that the AstraZeneca vaccine should not be given to people over 70. It recommended that the AstraZeneca vaccine be administered for those aged 65 years and older in two doses at an interval of 4-6 weeks.

It also stated that the best vaccine anyone can receive at this time is the vaccine that can be administered soonest.

But all things considered, including the NIAC and European Medicines Agency views, the Chief Medical Officer advised the Government that the vaccine should not be given to people over 70. The reason is that those who are most at risk should get the most effective vaccine. "

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0205/1195396-reasons-to-be-cheerful-pandemic/

Do you also support Dr Holohan's assertion that this summer, we might only be allowed out of the house to a beach in our own 'locality' - in 6 months time.

But it advised that where practical and timely, those aged over 70 should be given the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, which are mRNA vaccines

.

Graham · 07-02-2021 11:36AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

It also stated that the best vaccine anyone can receive at this time is the vaccine that can be administered soonest.

But all things considered, including the NIAC and European Medicines Agency views, the Chief Medical Officer advised the Government that the vaccine should not be given to people over 70. The reason is that those who are most at risk should get the most effective vaccine.

ok so

NIAC say those aged over 70 should be given mRNA vaccines.
NIAC also say the best vaccine is the one that can be delivered soonest.
The CMO says we should use the most effective (mRNA) vaccines for the over 70s

What sort of delay (if any) are the over 70s facing with the exclusive use of mRNA vaccines?

walus · 07-02-2021 11:46AM

Graham wrote: »

I can't help but think some are unaware that the CMO/NPHET only make recommendations.

In theory that is correct, however in practice it is not true. The general opinion is indeed that nphet make (or supposed to make) evidence based recommendation and leave economic policy to others. In practice that is untrue. They repeatedly demanded swathes of economy to be shut down with whole sectors to be made non-operational or to operate at much reduced capacity for a prolonged time. In effect the have implemented the most profound economic policy change in history - no one even heard about lockdown as a solution to something like this. We cannot have immunologists (are there actually any at nphet? btw) and health advisors altering the economies. Are the economists throwing in their 2c into the immunology science and policies? In 1968-69 Hong Kong flu H3N2 killed over 1m people globally and over 100k in US alone, yet there was no lockdown, Woodstock occurred as normal, there was no social distancing.

On top of that, as I said many times before, nphet are a dysfunctional group when decision making is concerned and should have been disbanded long time ago. Tony came back from his sabbatical and the very same moment nphet advice changed from level 2 to level 5. If they were truly operating based on scientific evidence with a solid decision making process in place would one man changed an opinion of 39 others? What evidence did he bring with him that changed the opinion of 39 others so much?

ujjjjjjjjj · 07-02-2021 11:49AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you explain how I have misconstrued and what did I misconstrue? Are you saying Dr Holohan did not override the decision? Have people lost sight of reality and are refusing to allow the indefinite lockdown strategy and those promoting it to be questioned?

There's a long read piece from Fergal Bowers in RTE also yesterday, confirming it was Holohan who wanted it changed, not the NIAC:
"The NIAC did not advise that the AstraZeneca vaccine should not be given to people over 70. It recommended that the AstraZeneca vaccine be administered for those aged 65 years and older in two doses at an interval of 4-6 weeks.

It also stated that the best vaccine anyone can receive at this time is the vaccine that can be administered soonest.

But all things considered, including the NIAC and European Medicines Agency views, the Chief Medical Officer advised the Government that the vaccine should not be given to people over 70. The reason is that those who are most at risk should get the most effective vaccine. "

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0205/1195396-reasons-to-be-cheerful-pandemic/

Do you also support Dr Holohan's assertion that this summer, we might only be allowed out of the house to a beach in our own 'locality' - in 6 months time.

https://www.rcpi.ie/news/releases/statement-from-the-national-immunisation-advisory-committee-regarding-its-recommendations-on-the-use-of-the-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-in-older-adults/

Pretty clear statement and decision from NIAC.

If I was over 70 the best vaccine I can get is the one I can get soonest.

Holohan has made his interpretation of this and twisted it. He should have passed this information onto to the government and suggested a way forward.

For me the decision that should have been made was, sure yes where possible for the over 70's give Pfizer shots but only if it didn't delay vaccination of this group. That is entirely consistent with the advice. But we have already seen based on Holohan's solo run AZ vaccines may be given to people outside of this age cohort so in short there may be delays for some over 70's which is clearly against NIAC's advice.

Why did senior politicians not do what I have done ?

I.e read the NIAC statement and then say thank you Tony for your opinion but we will follow NIAC advice as they are the body with the relevant expertise and competence to make this decision.

By differing from NIAC advice the government is allowing Holohan's personal judgement to over ride the body we have established to make scientific decisions.

Holohan and the government are now not following scientific advice.

Ultimately that is the net result.

Graham · 07-02-2021 11:56AM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

in short there may be delays for some over 70's which is clearly against NIAC's advice

So what sort of delay (if any) are the over 70s facing with the exclusive use of mRNA vaccines?

Boggles · 07-02-2021 11:59AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Are you saying Dr Holohan did not override the decision?

NPHET went with the best recommendation, as have 12 other European countries based on the best available data.

But sure tis power mad Tony on a solo run. :rolleyes:

ujjjjjjjjj · 07-02-2021 12:02PM

Graham wrote: »

So what sort of delay (if any) are the over 70s facing with the exclusive use of mRNA vaccines?

We don't know and this decision may have no impact on when over 70's get their shots but Holohan has changed NIAC advice.

Entirely consistent, as I said before, to recommend where it does not delay vaccination over 70' s be given the Pfizer vaccine as per NIAC advice.

But this is not the advice given by Holohan and enacted by the government.

They are not following the science, whether it has impact or not is irrelevant, it brings into question Holohan's competence and government competence.

Worst case the decision could delay some over 70's getting a vaccination which could have consequences.

Graham · 07-02-2021 12:06PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

We don't know and this decision may have no impact on when over 70's get their shots but Holohan has changed NIAC advice.

So what you're saying is you have absolutely no idea if delivery of an exclusively mRNA virus is going to take any longer than the alternative.

i.e. erring on the side of caution using mRNA vaccines exclusively is not necessarily incompatible with soonest.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings