Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

walus · 06-02-2021 12:21PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

They are krning through the5.5 billion covid contingency fund far quicker than they thought they would, what a shocker! They are literally too stupid to be running a country... or an ice cream van...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-spending-
5-5bn-covid-contingency-fund-faster-than-expected-1.4477476?mode=amp

Did any of them had actually an experience in running at least an ice cream van prior to becoming who they are now?

Edit: and they are talking about how ‘growth’ is going to get us out of this new recession/depression? Wow!

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 12:21PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-one-in-government-has-appetite-to-push-back-against-holohan-1.4477368?mode=amp

Worth a read folks. Asking some pretty serious questions.

Such a weak leadership

Samsonsmasher · 06-02-2021 12:22PM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I was watching RTE last week and they were in a nursing home giving a woman a vaccine and asked her how does she feel about it. She says "I dont care"

Made me laugh to be honest, is this who im sitting at home for a year out of work for?

Yes you are!

Donald Trump · 06-02-2021 12:22PM

walus wrote: »

Well, and how badly were the hospital overstretched up until December, and in the summer, so that that they had nothing to do and sent staff home? Were the restrictions justifiable then? 10-15 cases and no deaths. Give me a break. You guys are bringing up same old arguments that just don’t stack up any more the longer this continues.

Well you see, I'll try to explain it slowly.

There is currently a global pandemic. The first cases in Ireland arrived around last March. The health system came under severe pressure at the time and a lot of people died.

The thing about the pandemic is that the disease is infectious and contagious. That means that you catch it from other people. One way to minimize the spread of the disease is to prevent people from being unnecessarily in contact with others.

Some people get sick and need to go into hospital. If less people get sick then less people go into hospital.

If people obey the restrictions and everyone pulls together, then less people get sick, and less people go into hospitals and then the hospitals can cope and even perform their non emergency procedures.

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 12:23PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah, so you think that Covid19 hasn't, and wouldn't put the hospital system under any additional pressure compared to if it didn't exist. Even if there were no lockdowns at all. Interesting opinion. A strange one too if I may say so

Except that’s not what I said! Hospitals have been under pressure here for years, and will be for years going forward, you can thank the HSE for that, not covid!

Of course Covid plays a part and I don’t think anyone has doubted that! But the debate is how much of a part considering the pressure experienced doesn’t appear to have been much higher than normal!

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 12:25PM

Penfailed wrote: »

I made a statement that the 'E' in NPHET stands for 'Emergency'. That's it. You can draw whatever inference you want from one simple statement. It doesn't make it right.

That was my inference yes so apologies if you didn’t mean it in the way I had presumed.

ypres5 · 06-02-2021 12:26PM

walus wrote: »

Well, and how badly were the hospital overstretched up until December, and in the summer, so that that they had nothing to do and sent staff home? Were the restrictions justifiable then? 10-15 cases and no deaths. Give me a break. You guys are bringing up same old arguments that just don’t stack up any more the longer this continues.

Do you think that empty hospitals, or operating at 50% capacity does not constitute deaths too?

So long as it's not covid people die from it's like some on here don't care

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:26PM

walus wrote: »

It is not about making sacrifices Graham. You clearly do not see that lockdowns and restrictions lead to large number of secondary deaths that are occurring and will occur in the months and years from now.

I don't doubt there will be an increase in secondary deaths over the coming years.

Overwhelming our hospitals with Covid cases is not going to fix that.

Donald Trump · 06-02-2021 12:27PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Except that’s not what I said! Hospitals have been under pressure here for years, and will be for years going forward, you can thank the HSE for that, not covid!

Of course Covid plays a part and I don’t think anyone has doubted that! But the debate is how much of a part considering the pressure experienced doesn’t appear to have been much higher than normal!

What is your point?

They have to make practical decisions for tomorrow based on where we are today. You can't decide what to do tomorrow based on some hypothetical case of where you think we could have or should have been today.

ypres5 · 06-02-2021 12:32PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

They are burning through the5.5 billion covid contingency fund far quicker than they thought they would, what a shocker! They are literally too stupid to be running a country... or an ice cream van...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-spending-
5-5bn-covid-contingency-fund-faster-than-expected-1.4477476?mode=amp

don't worry we can just keep borrowing money indefinitely with absolutely no consequences it's amazing no government ever thought of doing it before

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 12:33PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

What is your point?

They have to make practical decisions for tomorrow based on where we are today. You can't decide what to do tomorrow based on some hypothetical case of where you think we could have or should have been today.

Exactly, I couldn’t agree more, they have to make practical decisions for tomorrow based on where we are today.... and where we are today is somewhere we have been a thousand times before yet nothing is being done to address that simple fact.

Because of general incompetence within the HSE and countless governments of the past, our hospitals routinely overflow and absolutely none of the decisions being made today are not going to change the fact!

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:38PM

ypres5 wrote: »

don't worry we can just keep borrowing money indefinitely with absolutely no consequences it's amazing no government ever thought of doing it before

I'm not sure why you'd imagine that.

It's certainly not something I've seen suggested other than the last few times you posted it.

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 12:39PM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Such a weak leadership

It certainly doesn't read well and is pointing at Holohan in essence having a solo run which no one's wants to challenge and his decision is going to have a huge impact on the speed of the vaccine roleout. It really is quite a significant article I feel.

Neagra · 06-02-2021 12:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People die all the time, it’s part of life. We can’t just close the world every time we are worried about our health.

In less than a year, we have half a million unemployed.
Billions of debt added to the our national debt.
Officially entered recession.
Thousands of cancer screenings have not been carried out.

Think we’ve already hit the stage were the solution is worse than the illness.

Since we’ve come this far and we now have vaccines, I’m willing to give them some time to get people vaccinated.

But this needs to happen this year and restrictions should still be eased a lot over the next month or two and completely disappear by winter.

In less than a year, we have half a million unemployed.
Billions of debt added to the our national debt.
Officially entered recession.
Thousands of cancer screenings have not been carried out.

everything you say above is true and the future is frightening
what happens when the covid pup and wage subsidy payments stop which they will
thousands of people on the dole and huge paycuts and job losses
it will be mainly the younger generations who will suffer

as an example
if march 1st the government stopped the covid pup forcing people on it onto the lower jobseekers payment, stopped wage subsidies forcing employers to cut wages and lay off people and told all public sector workers who refused to return to their place of work they will move onto jobseekers until they return.
can you imagine the economic and social fallout -

these will all be happening at some stage this year - and there will be war.

ypres5 · 06-02-2021 12:41PM

Graham wrote: »

I'm not sure why you'd imagine that.

It's certainly not something I've seen suggested other than the last few times you posted it.

and I haven't seen anyone say let er rip on here and yet the words keep getting put in people's mouths

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 12:42PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

It certainly doesn't read well and is pointing at Holohan in essence having a solo run which no one's wants to challenge and his decision is going to have a huge impact on the speed of the vaccine roleout. It really is quite a significant article I feel.

We saw what happened when Leo challenged him, hard to see anything changing now.

walus · 06-02-2021 12:42PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well you see, I'll try to explain it slowly.

There is currently a global pandemic. The first cases in Ireland arrived around last March. The health system came under severe pressure at the time and a lot of people died.

The thing about the pandemic is that the disease is infectious and contagious. That means that you catch it from other people. One way to minimize the spread of the disease is to prevent people from being unnecessarily in contact with others.

Some people get sick and need to go into hospital. If less people get sick then less people go into hospital.

If people obey the restrictions and everyone pulls together, then less people get sick, and less people go into hospitals and then the hospitals can cope and even perform their non emergency procedures.

Donald you don’t need to explain to me anything. If you are of an opinion that this virus was truly on the course to kill 100-200k people in Ireland then there is no point of even having a discussion.

If you agree however that an overreaction is as dangerous as ignorance, and in this particular case causes secondary deaths, then there is a light in a tunnel and we can have a meaningful debate.

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:44PM

Neagra wrote: »

In less than a year, we have half a million unemployed.
Billions of debt added to the our national debt.
Officially entered recession.
Thousands of cancer screenings have not been carried out.

everything you say above is true and the future is frightening
what happens when the covid pup and wage subsidy payments stop which they will
thousands of people on the dole and huge paycuts and job losses
it will be mainly the younger generations who will suffer

That PUP payments will stop when people can return to work is probably not a bad thing.

I expect the wage subsidy will continue for quite some time yet.

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 12:45PM

Graham wrote: »

I'm not sure why you'd imagine that.

It's certainly not something I've seen suggested other than the last few times you posted it.

Sure with negative interest rates it is actually a legitimate business opportunity for the state to borrow as much as possible.....borrow borrow borrow 🙄

And sure even if things change we can adopt the strategy of previous governments and ' we hope that the man who lent us de money forgets'

Does anyone remember austerity ? But sure McWliams thinks money isn't a problem, add a few zeros onto the national debt and sure it is just a few zeros, how can that possibly do any harm. We have reinvented money just like the Irish reinvented the property market where we figured out that you can just keep selling your house to your neighbour for more money, then buy it back and sell it back to him again for more money. That ended well.

walus · 06-02-2021 12:45PM

ypres5 wrote: »

So long as it's not covid people die from it's like some on here don't care

That is the point I’m making, because those secondary deaths do not come from a single source and are much more delayed in time, they are difficult to see and measure today. And because our politicians are short term thinking animals... you can clearly tell where their focus is. Those secondary deaths will be someone else’s problem if ever investigated, that is.

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:48PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Does anyone remember austerity ?

Yes. It solved little and prolonged the problem.

I'm pleased to see we're not stupid enough to try it again.

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 12:50PM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

We saw what happened when Leo challenged him, hard to see anything changing now.

They really are spineless and meanwhile up North and in the UK they are pretty much done with vaccinating the over 70's......

Neagra · 06-02-2021 12:50PM

Graham wrote: »

That PUP payments will stop when people can return to work is probably not a bad thing.

I expect the wage subsidy will continue for quite some time yet.

regardless they must end and end badly it will.
job losses and huge pay cuts even worse then last time.
nothing can stop this

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 12:52PM

Graham wrote: »

Yes. It solved little and prolonged the problem.

I'm pleased to see we're not stupid enough to try it again.

Cough.....guarantee years of austerity ahead with 'recovering from Covid' as the hand wringing sure what can we do.......

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:52PM

Neagra wrote: »

regardless they must end and end badly it will.
job losses and huge pay cuts even worse then last time.
nothing can stop this

I think we'll see the exact opposite, in no small part because we're not trying to scrimp our way out of it. Time will tell.

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:56PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Cough.....guarantee years of austerity ahead with 'recovering from Covid' as the hand wringing sure what can we do.......

are you quoting someone or posting an opinion?

ypres5 · 06-02-2021 12:56PM

Graham wrote: »

I think we'll see the exact opposite, in no small part because we're not trying to scrimp our way out of it. Time will tell.

So what's the government's alternative strategy because you seem very confident that it exists

FintanMcluskey · 06-02-2021 12:57PM

ypres5 wrote: »

and I haven't seen anyone say let er rip on here and yet the words keep getting put in people's mouths

It’s the equivalent of suggesting posters want to be barricaded into their homes and handed rations in the letter box by the army.

Which is a scenario I think some want to happen

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:59PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s the equivalent of suggesting posters want to be barricaded into their homes and handed rations in the letter box by the army.

Which is a scenario I think some want to happen

I never cease to be amazed at the vividness of your imagination when it comes to guessing what it is you think people want.

I don't think half of it is anywhere near accurate but impressive none the less.

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:59PM

ypres5 wrote: »

So what's the government's alternative strategy because you seem very confident that it exists

Not austerity.

Which is good although I would advocate for higher current spending.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings