Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 11:20AM

Graham wrote: »

I'll take examples of a straw man for $500 please Alex.

Nice grave anolgy up there pal

06-02-2021 11:22AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Staggering is the belief some have that lockdowns don't help suppress numbers or that when we are hitting thousands of cases a day and have tbe highest case rate in Europe that we should just ignore the potential that has to kill people and keep everything open. Staggering.

People die all the time, it’s part of life. We can’t just close the world every time we are worried about our health.

In less than a year, we have half a million unemployed.
Billions of debt added to the our national debt.
Officially entered recession.
Thousands of cancer screenings have not been carried out.

Think we’ve already hit the stage were the solution is worse than the illness.

Since we’ve come this far and we now have vaccines, I’m willing to give them some time to get people vaccinated.

But this needs to happen this year and restrictions should still be eased a lot over the next month or two and completely disappear by winter.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 11:26AM

Graham wrote: »

I'll take examples of a straw man for $500 please Alex.

You don't have to reply to every post with a smart comment.

Graham · 06-02-2021 11:32AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Nice grave anolgy up there pal

Daft isn't it, imagine suggesting it's better to deal with the fall out from a disease rather than preventing its transmission.

walus · 06-02-2021 11:40AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Staggering is the belief some have that lockdowns don't help suppress numbers or that when we are hitting thousands of cases a day and have tbe highest case rate in Europe that we should just ignore the potential that has to kill people and keep everything open. Staggering.

They do help, don’t get me wrong. However, every subsequent one is less effective than the previous, and they don’t solve the problem at its core. They also don’t save lives. Therefore, long term, as this pandemic is a long term problem, they are not a solution. And by and large they are the most expensive thing the economy has ever seen.

The point that I’m trying to make here is that justifying why Ireland had to be in 3 lockdowns and largely restricted in between those in these past 10 months giving a low number of ICU is plain and simple ridiculous. Is that really the only thing that we can do? Don’t be silly guys.

Graham · 06-02-2021 11:44AM

walus wrote: »

They do help, don’t get me wrong. However, every subsequent one is less effective than the previous, and they don’t solve the problem at its core. They also don’t save lives.

The more people move, the more the virus spreads, the more people catch it, the more people go into hospital, the more end up in ICU, the more people die.

That's all indisputable.

What some are suggesting is we should be sacrificing more people so restrictions can be eased.

Penfailed · 06-02-2021 11:45AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If only covid is to be considered, why is the below is a member of NPHET?

“Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health”

They even lied the government sub committee and said they had discussed mental health, only for the minutes to prove otherwise! Fact is they were supposed to look at mental health but it wasn’t discussed until October. So what was she in particular doing for the 9 months prior?!?

Why are you asking me? I didn't select the membership of NPHET.

KlArmy · 06-02-2021 11:49AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Staggering is the belief some have that lockdowns don't help suppress numbers or that when we are hitting thousands of cases a day and have tbe highest case rate in Europe that we should just ignore the potential that has to kill people and keep everything open. Staggering.

Is there any doubt that this could have been handled better?

The cost of crude locking down is enormous

Mental and physical health and the economy

walus · 06-02-2021 11:52AM

Graham wrote: »

What some are suggesting is we should be sacrificing more people so restrictions can be eased.

Sometimes it pays to take the opposite perspective. Every lockdown and restrictions in general sacrifice people too. We don’t hear RTE rumbling on about those but lockdown measures harm and take lives too. If you cannot see that, I can’t help you. We should not ignore those numbers just because unlike covid cases they are not accounted for right now.

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 11:52AM

Graham wrote: »

Daft isn't it

Yep.

Graham · 06-02-2021 11:54AM

walus wrote: »

Sometimes it pays to take the opposite perspective. Every lockdown and restrictions in general sacrifice people too. We don’t hear RTE rumbling on about those but those measure harm and take lives too. If you cannot see that, I can’t help you.

Nobody is denying restrictions mean people making sacrifices, of course they do.

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 11:55AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Why are you asking me? I didn't select the membership of NPHET.

Because you said covid is their remit (that the E in the name means emergency, and covid is the emergency) which insinuates a belief that considering mental health isn’t and shouldn’t be a factor them.

So I asked you if that’s the case, then why do you think they have a mental health professional on the team? And why would they have lied and told the government that they were considering mental health if they didn’t have to?

Boggles · 06-02-2021 11:56AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Its like they come on here just to argue with people.

SnuggyBear wrote: »

He seems to think hes funny and witty, its actually embarrassing. I wonder does he go on like that in real life. I cant imagine you would maintain any friends like that.

Indeed. :rolleyes:

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 11:58AM

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

KlArmy · 06-02-2021 11:59AM

Graham wrote: »

Nobody is denying restrictions mean people making sacrifices, of course they do.

They do ,but the issue is the overall cost benefit of lockdowns not the sacrifices they entail

walus · 06-02-2021 12:01PM

Graham wrote: »

Nobody is denying restrictions mean people making sacrifices, of course they do.

It is not about making sacrifices Graham. You clearly do not see that lockdowns and restrictions lead to large number of secondary deaths that are occurring and will occur in the months and years from now.

silverharp · 06-02-2021 12:03PM

Graham wrote: »

The more people move, the more the virus spreads, the more people catch it, the more people go into hospital, the more end up in ICU, the more people die.

That's all indisputable.

What some are suggesting is we should be sacrificing more people so restrictions can be eased.

sometimes you have to put on your big boy pants to have adult conversations

Donald Trump · 06-02-2021 12:06PM

walus wrote: »

It is not about making sacrifices Graham. You clearly do not see that lockdowns and restrictions lead to large number of secondary deaths that are occurring and will occur in the months and years from now.

How many "secondary deaths" do you think there would be if the hospitals were continually overstretched dealing with covid patients?

Did you factor that into your "numbers"?

SnuggyBear · 06-02-2021 12:07PM

I was watching RTE last week and they were in a nursing home giving a woman a vaccine and asked her how does she feel about it. She says "I dont care"

Made me laugh to be honest, is this who im sitting at home for a year out of work for?

KlArmy · 06-02-2021 12:08PM

silverharp wrote: »

sometimes you have to put on your big boy pants to have adult conversations

Locking down also sacrifices people

It's kinda obvious there's 2 sides to it

Not sure why some people can't see it or maybe they're trained to ignore it

Graham · 06-02-2021 12:09PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

How many "secondary deaths" do you think there would be if the hospitals were continually overstretched dealing with covid patients?

It sounds like we're in agreement that we should try not to overstretch our hospitals.

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 12:11PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

How many "secondary deaths" do you think there would be if the hospitals were continually overstretched dealing with covid patients?

Did you factor that into your "numbers"?

To be fair here, hospitals are stretched every year. It’s nothing new at all and if it wasn’t covid it would be something else!

I doubt you'd be in agreement with a level 5 type scenario being implemented for years to come anytime the health care system started to feel pressure would you?

walus · 06-02-2021 12:11PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

How many "secondary deaths" do you think there would be if the hospitals were continually overstretched dealing with covid patients?

Did you factor that into your "numbers"?

Well, and how badly were the hospital overstretched up until December, and in the summer, so that that they had nothing to do and sent staff home? Were the restrictions justifiable then? 10-15 cases and no deaths. Give me a break. You guys are bringing up same old arguments that just don’t stack up any more the longer this continues.

Do you think that empty hospitals, or operating at 50% capacity does not constitute deaths too?

Penfailed · 06-02-2021 12:12PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Because you said covid is their remit (that the E in the name means emergency, and covid is the emergency) which insinuates a belief that considering mental health isn’t and shouldn’t be a factor them.

So I asked you if that’s the case, then why do you think they have a mental health professional on the team? And why would they have lied and told the government that they were considering mental health if they didn’t have to?

I didn't insinuate anything of the sort. Again, I've no idea why they've selected the people they have. I also have no idea why they've allegedly lied. Maybe you should direct your questions at them or the government rather than some randomer on the interwebz.

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 12:12PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-one-in-government-has-appetite-to-push-back-against-holohan-1.4477368?mode=amp

Worth a read folks. Asking some pretty serious questions.

Captain_Crash · 06-02-2021 12:15PM

Penfailed wrote: »

I didn't insinuate anything of the sort. Again, I've no idea why they've selected the people they have. I also have no idea why they've allegedly lied. Maybe you should direct your questions at them or the government rather than some randomer on the interwebz.

It was directed at you because you insinuated that mental health isn’t supposed to be a factor in NPHET decision making despite them employing a mental health professional, that’s all! If you feel different today about it that’s cool, we’re all entitled to amend our positions on the matter. It’s a discussion board afterall!

Donald Trump · 06-02-2021 12:15PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

To be fair here, hospitals are stretched every year. It’s nothing new at all and if it wasn’t covid it would be something else!

I doubt you'd be in agreement with a level 5 type scenario being implemented anytime the health care system started to feel pressure would you?

Ah, so you think that Covid19 hasn't, and wouldn't put the hospital system under any additional pressure compared to if it didn't exist. Even if there were no lockdowns at all. Interesting opinion. A strange one too if I may say so

walus · 06-02-2021 12:15PM

Graham wrote: »

It sounds like we're in agreement that we should try not to overstretch our hospitals.

Considering what you say and the fact that the hospitals get overstretched every year with high degree certainty, why on earth did we not lockdown before?

Penfailed · 06-02-2021 12:18PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It was directed at you because you insinuated that mental health isn’t supposed to be a factor in NPHET decision making despite them employing a mental health professional, that’s all! If you feel different today about it that’s cool, we’re all entitled to amend our positions on the matter. It’s a discussion board afterall!

I made a statement that the 'E' in NPHET stands for 'Emergency'. That's it. You can draw whatever inference you want from one simple statement. It doesn't make it right.

Idbatterim · 06-02-2021 12:19PM

They are burning through the5.5 billion covid contingency fund far quicker than they thought they would, what a shocker! They are literally too stupid to be running a country... or an ice cream van...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-spending-
5-5bn-covid-contingency-fund-faster-than-expected-1.4477476?mode=amp

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings