UK/Ireland Zero Covid Area

ceadaoin. · 26-01-2021 12:22am

It seems even New Zealand realise that a zero covid approach is unsustainable

“Our goal has to be though, to get the management of Covid-19 to a similar place as we do seasonally, with the flu. It won’t be a disease that we will see simply disappear after one round of vaccine across our population,” Ardern said.

Sounds an awful lot like a living with the virus plan in the long term doesn't it? Unless their standard management of the flu is to close off the country and forcibly quarantine people?

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124012148/jacinda-ardern-declares-2021-the-year-of-the-vaccine

Happydays2020 · 26-01-2021 12:36am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It took Melbourne something like 4 months, this says 112 days: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54686812

new strains could make it longer? Melbourne is a big, dense city though....so its definitely doable.

How many cases did they have - less than 100 a day? They sealed internal and external borders. They had quarantine and curfews.

Been to Melbourne 3 times. Big but not hugely dense. Great place.

https://chartingtransport.com/2015/11/26/comparing-the-densities-of-australian-and-european-cities/

mandrake04 · 26-01-2021 12:43am

Happydays2020 wrote: »

How many cases did they have - less than 100 a day? They sealed internal and external borders. They had quarantine and curfews.

Been to Melbourne 3 times. Big but not hugely dense. Great place.

Melbourne has the population of Ireland in an area the size of Cork and Limerick

the most they had was 700 for the whole state of Victoria in one day 5th Aug.

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/vic

This is bastard to get rid off

Happydays2020 · 26-01-2021 12:51am

mandrake04 wrote: »

Melbourne has the population of Ireland in an area the size of Cork and Limerick

the most they had was 700 for the whole state of Victoria in one day 5th Aug.

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/vic

This is bastard to get rid off

I edited post to include this link https://chartingtransport.com/2015/11/26/comparing-the-densities-of-australian-and-european-cities/

I can see why Australia and New Zealand went for it and are getting their rewards although I have friends in Melbourne who found it very tough. Just do not think the zero Covid supporters know what is involved here in doing it and keeping it that way given our border and we are part of a bigger entity.

mandrake04 · 26-01-2021 12:59am

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I edited post to include this link https://chartingtransport.com/2015/11/26/comparing-the-densities-of-australian-and-european-cities/

I can see why Australia and New Zealand went for it and are getting their rewards although I have friends in Melbourne who found it very tough. Just do not think the zero Covid supporters know what is involved here in doing it and keeping it that way given our border and we are part of a bigger entity.

I don't think ZC can work in Ireland, I think cutting out all but extremely essential travel will help reduce it. But Flip-flopping between L3 - L5 is probably as good as its going to get for at least another 12- 18 months.

Hubertj · 27-01-2021 7:06pm

I don’t think 0 COVID can work but I do think better controls are required at points of entry to prevent non essential travel.

https://m.independent.ie/news/people-who-lost-loved-ones-to-covid-need-to-contact-their-tds-says-dr-scally-as-he-urges-politicians-to-adopt-all-island-approach-40019355.html

I have listened to scally on radio the last few days and read this article. I understand he feels strongly about it but I think his contributions are offensive.
Last week he was on Newstalk basically saying “I told you so”.

I also think the 0 COVID academics are not thinking real world solutions as to how the hundreds (maybe thousand +) of essential workers who travel in and out of Ireland everyday are to be managed/monitored - haulage / engineers / pharma / medical. They would be Irish and non Irish nationals. If Ireland acts unilaterally it has a knock on impact.

namloc1980 · 27-01-2021 7:08pm

gally74 wrote: »

I reckon zero covid is the aim jow, people have had enough.....

It's amazing what home schooling has brought opinion tooo

Wait until later in the year and you'll have loads of people moaning that they can't go to Spain for their holidays and will be demanding the zero covid strategy is lifted.

27-01-2021 10:56pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Wait until later in the year and you'll have loads of people moaning that they can't go to Spain for their holidays and will be demanding the zero covid strategy is lifted.

This current government are going to getting hammered in next election over weak travel restrictions. The opposition/media/public at the moment are really telling this current lot what they need to do. On principle i will not be voting for any of the parties currently in government. FF and Greens in particular seem utterly clueless and out of step. The groundswell in UK and Ireland is growing. Why should we have to hibernate when people are allowed into our country and then infect us? Disgusting attitude by Government. In fairness to cute Leo he said in a party meeting today he "would not rule out any strategy and as leaders we need to be humble in a pandemic". More of this Leo but get on with action at our airports and ports. Every person when arriving should at a minimum be tested. This voluntary quarantining at home nonsense with no test in ireland is just that nonsense. For us to open up and stay open we need to make sure people are not coming into our country without proper quarantining and multiple tests. In the summer 20% of our cases were from travel.

jd1983 · 28-01-2021 1:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

In the summer 20% of our cases were from travel.

Have you got a source for that, it's a lot higher than what I saw reported.

Hubertj · 28-01-2021 8:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

This current government are going to getting hammered in next election over weak travel restrictions. The opposition/media/public at the moment are really telling this current lot what they need to do. On principle i will not be voting for any of the parties currently in government. FF and Greens in particular seem utterly clueless and out of step. The groundswell in UK and Ireland is growing. Why should we have to hibernate when people are allowed into our country and then infect us? Disgusting attitude by Government. In fairness to cute Leo he said in a party meeting today he "would not rule out any strategy and as leaders we need to be humble in a pandemic". More of this Leo but get on with action at our airports and ports. Every person when arriving should at a minimum be tested. This voluntary quarantining at home nonsense with no test in ireland is just that nonsense. For us to open up and stay open we need to make sure people are not coming into our country without proper quarantining and multiple tests. In the summer 20% of our cases were from travel.

I think a difference should be made between the 0 COVID clowns and having better controls on international travel. If we introduce quarantine for all except essential workers how do we monitor them - for example, Irish haulage driver comes off ferry and they go home to their families. Their families attend work, school college etc. Same can apply to scientists / pharma / engineers etc.
How about non national essential workers arriving in Ireland?

Opposition parties are politicising the subject which angers me.

28-01-2021 9:56am

The UK would have likely saved 65,000+ lives by adopting zero covid,south korean style.....these on/off lockdowns dont work and are a diaster

https://academictimes.com/south-korean-style-covid-19-response-wouldve-saved-65000-lives-in-uk/

TomSweeney · 28-01-2021 10:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

Fears new strains of covid will evade vaccinations means european strategy in last 12 months is in tatters. Many of the people who are hospitalised are under 60. Your above scenario was the thinking up to a month ago in europe. Redundant and out of date thinking at this stage.

Well this alone means the restrictions would just have to go on and on ....

is_that_so · 28-01-2021 10:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

The UK would have likely saved 65,000+ lives by adopting zero covid,south korean style.....these on/off lockdowns dont work and are a diaster

https://academictimes.com/south-korean-style-covid-19-response-wouldve-saved-65000-lives-in-uk/

Korean style tracks credit cards and mobile phone data - frowned upon in many parts of the world. The UK messed up in its constant flip flopping on strategies and like other countries was lacking in its nursing home sector.

TomSweeney · 28-01-2021 10:27am

funnydoggy wrote: »

We can't even get social distancing and mask wearing right, and people want zero COVID to work. I dunno, I'm not seeing it.

Then again I'm jaded at this stage. Whatever gets us out of here fastest is enough.

But thats the point, ZERO covid won;t get us out of this, it will mean living in a permanent bubble, with travel a thing of the past.

CorkRed93 · 28-01-2021 11:10am

TomSweeney wrote: »

But thats the point, ZERO covid won;t get us out of this, it will mean living in a permanent bubble, with travel a thing of the past.

No it doesn't. Vaccinations are ramping up, come 2022 a vast majority of 1st world countries will have been vaccinated thus lessening risk of importation and allowing travel. IF however cases are imported , with community transmission already stomped out any outbreak should be easily traceable for the public health teams.

TomSweeney · 28-01-2021 11:12am

CorkRed93 wrote: »

No it doesn't. Vaccinations are ramping up, come 2022 a vast majority of 1st world countries will have been vaccinated thus lessening risk of importation and allowing travel. IF however cases are imported , with community transmission already stomped out any outbreak should be easily traceable for the public health teams.

Yeah and what about the new strains ? vaccines may work against them now, but there will be constant new strains.

They will use this to keep these travel restrictions .. I'm sure life within the bubble will return, but say goodbye to travel.

It's ok for people that are happy to stay in Ireland forever, but some of us are expats living abroad and would like to get home now and then.

corcaigh07 · 28-01-2021 2:19pm

Hubertj wrote: »

I think a difference should be made between the 0 COVID clowns and having better controls on international travel. If we introduce quarantine for all except essential workers how do we monitor them - for example, Irish haulage driver comes off ferry and they go home to their families. Their families attend work, school college etc. Same can apply to scientists / pharma / engineers etc.
How about non national essential workers arriving in Ireland?

Opposition parties are politicising the subject which angers me.

If I could thank this more, I would. I'm all in favour of a minimal Covid approach with better controls around travel. A Zero Covid approach is impossible for Ireland.

I detest the likes of Dr Tomas Ryan and Alan Kelly advertising the dream of going to a rugby match with a full crowd as the carrot of their arguments.

cgcsb · 28-01-2021 2:22pm

Ireland and Scotland maybe. England has no hope of reaching 0 covid. The sheer numbers of even essential people travelling would prevent it. Also rates of compliance with rules in the London area are very very low, have been since the start.

Hubertj · 28-01-2021 2:30pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland and Scotland maybe. England has no hope of reaching 0 covid. The sheer numbers of even essential people travelling would prevent it. Also rates of compliance with rules in the London area are very very low, have been since the start.

Yep. My mate live in Dulwich, which is next to Brixton.... he said it’s mad stuff altogether

firemansam4 · 28-01-2021 5:43pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

Yeah and what about the new strains ? vaccines may work against them now, but there will be constant new strains.

They will use this to keep these travel restrictions .. I'm sure life within the bubble will return, but say goodbye to travel.

It's ok for people that are happy to stay in Ireland forever, but some of us are expats living abroad and would like to get home now and then.

I suspect International travel is going to have to be severely restricted for this year at least.
The most important thing now is to get the population vaccinated, and going by initial data coming from Israel it is looking good that infection rates will drop dramatically when a high percentage of the population gets vaccinated.

The worst case scenario now is that we start getting a good handle on everything in the summer through vaccinations only for a new strain that evades them to come along and f**ck everything back up again.

However if other countries get infection levels to a very low amount as well, then the chances of a new strain coming from them becomes very low. So I could see the whole green list of countries for travel coming back into play again and maybe into 2022 we could start opening up some travel corridors again hopefully.

31-01-2021 3:22pm

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/update-2-perth-in-lockdown-ending-australias-2-week-run-without-covid-19-1073253.html

Perth back into lockdown after 10months for 1 case,no messing about.....will they be back to normal before us??

Parachutes · 31-01-2021 3:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/update-2-perth-in-lockdown-ending-australias-2-week-run-without-covid-19-1073253.html

Perth back into lockdown after 10months for 1 case,no messing about.....will they be back to normal before us??

They’ll be in and out of lockdown for years if that’s the strategy they’re pursuing. There’s no such thing as zero covid, it’s pie in the sky thinking as there will always be asymptomatic walking around feeling grand and possibly passing it on.

The UK now has 5 in 6 over 80s jabbed, once other vulnerable groups have got vaccinated there’s no reason why they shouldn’t open up again and get the economy churning, put a test and trace in operation and socially distance. The amount of people who have been jabbed/had the virus must mean we are achieving herd immunity soon.

31-01-2021 3:36pm

Parachutes wrote: »

They’ll be in and out of lockdown for years if that’s the strategy they’re pursuing. There’s no such thing as zero covid, it’s pie in the sky thinking as there will always be asymptomatic walking around feeling grand and possibly passing it on.

The UK now has 5 in 6 over 80s jabbed, once other vulnerable groups have got vaccinated there’s no reason why they shouldn’t open up again and get the economy churning, put a test and trace in operation and socially distance. The amount of people who have been jabbed/had the virus must mean we are achieving herd immunity soon.

Surely oz and nz will just vaccinate and achieve same?

Oz is starting its vaccination next month?

06-02-2021 12:06am

Parachutes wrote: »

They’ll be in and out of lockdown for years if that’s the strategy they’re pursuing. There’s no such thing as zero covid, it’s pie in the sky thinking as there will always be asymptomatic walking around feeling grand and possibly passing it on.

Perth back out of lockdown again

https://amp.9news.com.au/article/750ffcb5-8b44-4f5a-b7a5-8feb4dec294c

mandrake04 · 06-02-2021 1:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely oz and nz will just vaccinate and achieve same?

Oz is starting its vaccination next month?

Yes starting in 2 weeks, by end of March will be vaccinating 1m per week and should have the adult population done and dusted by October.

150 doses for 25m population so obviously be helping out their poorer neigbours, luckily they making 53m of the AZ vaccine in Melbourne so avoiding the euro-crumbs scenario.

I really don't get these dumb remarks of the likes of NZ and Australia being in and out of lockdown for years or cutting themselves of from the world forever, its exactly like saying Ireland will be in L5 every Autumn/Winter....are all countries are relying on vaccines as a solution?

Hubertj · 06-02-2021 9:27am

Is anyone on this thread in Australia or New Zealand? If so can they explain how the movement of essential workers is managed? Or is it quarantine for all? I presume cargo ships and cargo planes etc don’t have people disembarking? What about essential workers in engineering, tech, pharma etc?

ceadaoin. · 06-02-2021 9:39am

Hubertj wrote: »

Is anyone on this thread in Australia or New Zealand? If so can they explain how the movement of essential workers is managed? Or is it quarantine for all? I presume cargo ships and cargo planes etc don’t have people disembarking? What about essential workers in engineering, tech, pharma etc?

Not in Australia but they are having problems with essential work positions usually filled by immigrants who are now banned from entering, such as farming.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-12-11/farm-worker-shortage-expected-to-worsen-as-industry-crops-rot/12974250

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-01-14/veg-harvest-dumped-in-gippsland-due-to-covid-travel-bans/13056820

I'm sure the other essential workers you mentioned are allowed entry, but they still have to quarantine.

PhoneMain · 06-02-2021 10:36am

I think after the events of this week, it's pretty clear that the North isn't going to do anything that would be seen as working closely with the South and the UK is on completely different wavelength than us for it's management of Covid so ZeroCovid is a non runner.

mandrake04 · 06-02-2021 10:50am

Hubertj wrote: »

Is anyone on this thread in Australia or New Zealand? If so can they explain how the movement of essential workers is managed? Or is it quarantine for all? I presume cargo ships and cargo planes etc don’t have people disembarking? What about essential workers in engineering, tech, pharma etc?

I live in Sydney.

Essential workers from overseas have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days doesn’t matter what they do, aircrew if they have to lay over for a few days have to stay in 2 special hotels they are not allowed to leave that hotel. Cargo ship crew are not allowed to disembark and if they do they have to be isolated until they leave.

Its no problem, life just goes on fairly normal.

Hubertj · 06-02-2021 11:24am

mandrake04 wrote: »

I live in Sydney.

Essential workers from overseas have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days doesn’t matter what they do, aircrew if they have to lay over for a few days have to stay in 2 special hotels they are not allowed to leave that hotel. Cargo ship crew are not allowed to disembark and if they do they have to be isolated until they leave.

Its no problem, life just goes on fairly normal.

Thanks for clarifying. Australia is clearly more self sufficient/ independent in that sense. Logical considering their geographic location. Enjoy the freedom!

UK/Ireland Zero Covid Area

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