Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

Zzippy · 04-02-2021 11:41PM

connachta wrote: »

Jamie Roberts vs Peter Robb, 210k trucks. It's concussion time!

Cop yourself on.

Papali'i would want to have a big game. He's been a big disappointment of a signing so far, a few big carries you could count on one hand and two red cards. If he doesn't put in a big shift I won't be sorry to never see him in green again.

realhorrorshow · 05-02-2021 12:02AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Cop yourself on.

Papali'i would want to have a big game. He's been a big disappointment of a signing so far, a few big carries you could count on one hand and two red cards. If he doesn't put in a big shift I won't be sorry to never see him in green again.

His appearance off the bench vs the Ospreys was encouraging, daft quick tap aside. Seemed like he had corrected his tackle height. Agree that he hasn't been a successful signing thus far, pressure is on now for him to earn a renewal.

05-02-2021 11:09AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Cop yourself on.

Papali'i would want to have a big game. He's been a big disappointment of a signing so far, a few big carries you could count on one hand and two red cards. If he doesn't put in a big shift I won't be sorry to never see him in green again.

I think he's been very unfortunate and to judge him on mere minutes of rugby is a bit soon. Albeit its been a crazy few minutes he's played, I do see potential in him to be a decent player, hopefully he can get a run of games under him with no red cards so we get a better understanding of his capabilities.

RonnieL · 05-02-2021 11:28AM

I'd be inclined to give Papali'i more of a chance to prove he is progressing in the right direction, and forgive the odd mistake going forward, because we're unlikely to find someone else with his strength/size/athleticism. As Andy Friend has explained, with our budget constraints, we have to identify rough diamonds and hope they can be polished into top class players. He has had a horrible start, but he has also showed plenty of promise with some great carries. Fingers crossed he has a good game tonight, and when he leaves the field we're allowed to replace him with one of our subs!

Tommybojangles · 05-02-2021 11:35AM

I think it's an important game for Papalii, if he struggles against a team of the quality of the Dragons its not a good indication going forward.

I agree with most who are saying it's hard to form an opinion on him given he hasn't got a run of games or even minutes, and has shown about 30% crazy game braking ability and 70% utter madness. I wouldn't even call him a disappointment so far as I don't think most people were expecting anything (Sorry Connachta).

For the moment I'd still lean towards thinking he could be an asset, but we need to start seeing some progress for the remainder of the year. If he doesn't trend in the right direction in his next 5-10 games I think it's cut your losses time

connachta · 05-02-2021 12:40PM

Tommybojangles wrote: »

I think it's an important game for Papalii, if he struggles against a team of the quality of the Dragons its not a good indication going forward.

I agree with most who are saying it's hard to form an opinion on him given he hasn't got a run of games or even minutes, and has shown about 30% crazy game braking ability and 70% utter madness. I wouldn't even call him a disappointment so far as I don't think most people were expecting anything (Sorry Connachta).

For the moment I'd still lean towards thinking he could be an asset, but we need to start seeing some progress for the remainder of the year. If he doesn't trend in the right direction in his next 5-10 games I think it's cut your losses time

Agree with you

05-02-2021 01:04PM

So no Connacht lads in the Ireland squad for Sunday. Very disappointing and not a fair reflection on our season especially in the half-back area.

sydthebeat · 05-02-2021 01:16PM

marley45 wrote: »

So no Connacht lads in the Ireland squad for Sunday. Very disappointing and not a fair reflection on our season especially in the half-back area.

I would have thought its actually a true reflection of Connacht's inconsistency so far this season

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined.

Obviously im not gong to find much truck with this in the Connacht forum, but to say its "unfair" smacks of toys out of the pram.
Its hard to make an argument for any Connacht player to be involved in the 23 on sunday, ahead of those selected.... apart from an injured Bundee.

gally74 · 05-02-2021 01:26PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I would have thought its actually a true reflection of Connacht's inconsistency so far this season

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined.

Obviously im not gong to find much truck with this in the Connacht forum, but to say its "unfair" smacks of toys out of the pram.
Its hard to make an argument for any Connacht player to be involved in the 23 on sunday, ahead of those selected.... apart from an injured Bundee.

I think its where we are, i felt Aki wasnt too great for us lately, I felt Daly was ahead of him... Roux might have made the 23,

but in reality its a pretty old team, little to be excited about,

its_phil · 05-02-2021 01:29PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I would have thought its actually a true reflection of Connacht's inconsistency so far this season

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined.

Obviously im not gong to find much truck with this in the Connacht forum, but to say its "unfair" smacks of toys out of the pram.
Its hard to make an argument for any Connacht player to be involved in the 23 on sunday, ahead of those selected.... apart from an injured Bundee.

When we start getting surplus Ireland players sent to us like some of the other provinces then you can start comparing our win/loss record to the others whose resources dwarf over the other 9 teams in the league.

sydthebeat · 05-02-2021 01:40PM

its_phil wrote: »

When we start getting surplus Ireland players sent to us like some of the other provinces then you can start comparing our win/loss record to the others whose resources dwarf over the other 9 teams in the league.

Can Connacht not produce test level players themselves?

surely their own performances are within their own hands... but perhaps you think its good enough to be beaten by a dismal ospreys side in the sportsground cos, you know, connacht havent gotten given better players by the IRFU.....

thomond2006 · 05-02-2021 01:48PM

It's Connacht Rugby's fault that St. Michael's isn't in Galway.

FACECUTTR · 05-02-2021 01:48PM

marley45 wrote: »

So no Connacht lads in the Ireland squad for Sunday. Very disappointing and not a fair reflection on our season especially in the half-back area.

I'm not too pushed really. Aki has been injured lately but his performance in the Irish Jersey haven't been great. He is not utilized the same way he is at Connacht which is a shame.
Roux is unfortunate as is Dillane.
I'd have Blade ahead of Park in my opinion as he has been fantastic for about 2 years now.
Carthy needs more consistency. On his day he is fantastic.
1 player that I think should have been involved even if it's only for training is Delahunt. I think he offers more and has been good for the last year or so. Kellehers throwing is not up to standard and Herring is ok but not the most physical of players. Heffernan is is somewhere in between both of these.

Lost Ormond · 05-02-2021 01:49PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can Connacht not produce test level players themselves?

surely their own performances are within their own hands... but perhaps you think its good enough to be beaten by a dismal ospreys side in the sportsground cos, you know, connacht havent gotten given better players by the IRFU.....

They have and will continue to do so but when there's under 30 clubs in the province which is less than 50% whats in rest of the provinces and dont have schools near what others do(Resources) then they will produce far less.

sydthebeat · 05-02-2021 01:56PM

Lost Ormond wrote: »

They have and will continue to do so but when there's under 30 clubs in the province which is less than 50% whats in rest of the provinces and dont have schools near what others do(Resources) then they will produce far less.

i 100% agree

Im just making the point that sometimes it should not be surprising or "unfair" that it happens..

its very much a QED situation.

you cant on one hand complain that there arent more players in the match day squad if the performance at provincial level isnt top notch, and on the other hand argue its not top notch because you dont have the resources.

05-02-2021 02:03PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I would have thought its actually a true reflection of Connacht's inconsistency so far this season

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined.

Obviously im not gong to find much truck with this in the Connacht forum, but to say its "unfair" smacks of toys out of the pram.
Its hard to make an argument for any Connacht player to be involved in the 23 on sunday, ahead of those selected.... apart from an injured Bundee.

That's a fair enough point. I didn't realize Bundee was injured. I just look at the squad and see Healy, O Mahony, Murray, Sexton, Earls all going to be on their last legs at the next World Cup (if there at all) and have yet to perform at one in the peaks of their career.

We should really spend the full 4 year cycle preparing for the WC rather than the year or 2 coming up to it , hasn't worked before and won't work in the future. A couple of bad six nations is worth a WC semi or even final in my opinion.

serfboard · 05-02-2021 02:08PM

marley45 wrote: »

A couple of bad six nations is worth a WC semi or even final in my opinion.

Might be your opinion, but it's not the IRFU's.

Zzippy · 05-02-2021 02:28PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can Connacht not produce test level players themselves?

surely their own performances are within their own hands... but perhaps you think its good enough to be beaten by a dismal ospreys side in the sportsground cos, you know, connacht havent gotten given better players by the IRFU.....

Syd, you can't berate a team for not producing test players and compare them performance-wise to a province with essentially 4/5 fully funded private academies, and 2 other provinces with far greater budgets being handed players from those academies too. It smacks of entitlement and superiority complex not to see the disparity and to criticise teams for not being as rich, or lucky, as yours. And how many internationals were in that Ospreys team, compared to Connacht's?

its_phil · 05-02-2021 02:31PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can Connacht not produce test level players themselves?

surely their own performances are within their own hands... but perhaps you think its good enough to be beaten by a dismal ospreys side in the sportsground cos, you know, connacht havent gotten given better players by the IRFU.....

Where did I say it was good enough to get beaten by Ospreys? I was the first to batter them for that.

As regards producing our own players, our output for professional players given our population, resources, and turning underage cast offs around is something to be proud of. The output for academy players in the 23 tomorrow outside of Leinster is 4 Munster, 2 Ulster and 1 Connacht.

I never made any point about more players in the Ireland matchday squad that was someone else, there are some arguments but best cases 50-50 that I wouldn't have major issue with, I simply said comparing the win-loss record to the other 3 is ridiculous.

Even if there was more Connacht players I felt deserving to be in the 23, why does the results of the club matter if the player is going well? England have 8 different clubs represented in their XV tomorrow, only in Ireland are fans obsessed with provinces performance instead of player performance to justify selection for players.

ShineyShiney · 05-02-2021 02:36PM

Only Connacht player hard done by not to be in that match day squad is Carty. Roux injured, bundi has been ousted for the first time in 3 years by an improved henshaw.

Lots of guys not far off but we better start proving it in the pro 14 starting tonight.

sydthebeat · 05-02-2021 02:58PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Syd, you can't berate a team for not producing test players and compare them performance-wise to a province with essentially 4/5 fully funded private academies, and 2 other provinces with far greater budgets being handed players from those academies too. It smacks of entitlement and superiority complex not to see the disparity and to criticise teams for not being as rich, or lucky, as yours. And how many internationals were in that Ospreys team, compared to Connacht's?

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....

So no Connacht lads in the Ireland squad for Sunday. Very disappointing and not a fair reflection on our season especially in the half-back area.

but that being said.... of course we are taking about performance comparisons when considering test players... they have to be compared to their alternatives.
14 leinster, 6 munster and 3 ulster is a very fair reflection if you consider that leinster are 2 from 2 in europe, and 9 from 10 in pro 14. Munster are similar at 2 from 2 in europe and 8 from 10 in pro 14. Ulster are out of europe but challenging leinster with 9 from 10 in pro 14.

connacht are 0 from 2 in europe and 5 from 10 in pro 14.
Thats simply where they are and a big reason why theres no connacht players on show on sunday.

again, i didnt bring this up...

i just took issue that its somehow an 'unfair' situation... because to claim its unfair means there is somehow an unfair bias given towards the other 3 teams.... and THATS a much bigger claim to pin a mast to.

England have 8 different clubs represented in their XV tomorrow, only in Ireland are fans obsessed with provinces performance instead of player performance to justify selection for players

england have 3/4s of their clubs represented in the test squad... humm sounds eerily similar

and just a heads up... it was a connacht fan who complained, in case you didnt realise

its_phil · 05-02-2021 02:59PM

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Only Connacht player hard done by not to be in that match day squad is Carty. Roux injured, bundi has been ousted for the first time in 3 years by an improved henshaw.

Lots of guys not far off but we better start proving it in the pro 14 starting tonight.

Yeah wouldn't have any arguments for Bundee over Robbie, they are a flip of the coin and Bundee hasn't really played the last 6 weeks. Burns over Carty, there's equally strong arguments for both. Scrum half is the loudest shout possibly but Luke McGrath has a shout too with our guys. You wouldn't have Ultan over Hendy, Beirne or Ryan in second row today. Finlay has been treated awfully by the Irish management after the Georgia nonsense but John Ryan is a good player. The three hookers in Ireland camp right now are not long term solutions to be fair.

Not a whole lot of clear cases for Connacht players to be starting.

Tommybojangles · 05-02-2021 03:16PM

Scrum half is the only possible place where any connacht player could have a grievance imo and its all much of a muchness between our scrum halves, Leinsters and Murray

Zeugnis · 05-02-2021 04:08PM

Henshaw has been playing out of his skin, while Aki hasn't been up to his own standard recently. There's no question who has the right to the jersey.

Carty was among those scapegoated, unfairly, for the World Cup failure (see O'Driscoll). Most irish rugby fans do not watch enough Connacht games to know how good Jack can be. And, yes, he has been inconsistent, but the worst of that was post World Cup. I continue to believe that he is the best man to fill J10's boots for now, but Billy Burns has put in creditable performances. Jack will have to wait until the end of Farrell's reign, which may not be that long.

Bazzo · 05-02-2021 04:10PM

its_phil wrote: »

Yeah wouldn't have any arguments for Bundee over Robbie, they are a flip of the coin and Bundee hasn't really played the last 6 weeks. Burns over Carty, there's equally strong arguments for both. Scrum half is the loudest shout possibly but Luke McGrath has a shout too with our guys. You wouldn't have Ultan over Hendy, Beirne or Ryan in second row today. Finlay has been treated awfully by the Irish management after the Georgia nonsense but John Ryan is a good player. The three hookers in Ireland camp right now are not long term solutions to be fair.

Not a whole lot of clear cases for Connacht players to be starting.

Don't think John Ryan is in the squad? Tom O'Toole is the 3rd tighthead prop iirc

Dubinusa · 05-02-2021 04:17PM

The results for Connacht are up and down. They haven't sustained a run of wins to build upon and thet reflects in the selection. I think Blade is a possible call up. Marmion seems out of favor with Farrell. No idea why, but Cooney is also being cast aside. Carty imo, is not consistent enough and I think Dillane is unlucky. I think Boyle will get an opportunity soon enough. He's a quality player and I think he gets better each year. I suppose if Connacht were winning their conference and still in Europe, there would be more call ups.

Zzippy · 05-02-2021 05:14PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....

Fair enough. FWIW, and I forgot to include that in my post, I don't think any Connacht players deserved a start, although I think Bealham is hard done by for a bench spot. Furlong can't be anywhere near match fit, I hate seeing players rushed back when a few club games would do them, and Ireland, far more good.

its_phil · 05-02-2021 05:46PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....

but that being said.... of course we are taking about performance comparisons when considering test players... they have to be compared to their alternatives.
14 leinster, 6 munster and 3 ulster is a very fair reflection if you consider that leinster are 2 from 2 in europe, and 9 from 10 in pro 14. Munster are similar at 2 from 2 in europe and 8 from 10 in pro 14. Ulster are out of europe but challenging leinster with 9 from 10 in pro 14.

connacht are 0 from 2 in europe and 5 from 10 in pro 14.
Thats simply where they are and a big reason why theres no connacht players on show on sunday.

again, i didnt bring this up...

i just took issue that its somehow an 'unfair' situation... because to claim its unfair means there is somehow an unfair bias given towards the other 3 teams.... and THATS a much bigger claim to pin a mast to.

england have 3/4s of their clubs represented in the test squad... humm sounds eerily similar

and just a heads up... it was a connacht fan who complained, in case you didnt realise

You litreally compared Connacht's results without anyone bringing results up?

sydthebeat wrote: »

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined

Comparing the results of the other 3 to Connacht is ridiculous when we can't naturally achieve anything close to what the other three have in terms of resources. We have a level and it's closer to the Scarlets and Gloucester than it is to Leinster, Munster, Racing, and Bristol.

If judging players on their international prospects is based on the provinces results rather than players performances, we're screwed. Countries such as England, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, and France don't operate like that.

What has a another Connacht fan complaining got to do with my point about you bringing up results to judge players? Are we not allowed think exclusivley of one another?

FACECUTTR · 05-02-2021 06:27PM

I'm going to predict a 5 pointer tonight. Hopefully the Ospreys muck show is well and truly put to bed.

OldRio · 05-02-2021 08:50PM

No yellow card? Odd.

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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