Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

its_phil

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can Connacht not produce test level players themselves?

surely their own performances are within their own hands... but perhaps you think its good enough to be beaten by a dismal ospreys side in the sportsground cos, you know, connacht havent gotten given better players by the IRFU.....

Where did I say it was good enough to get beaten by Ospreys? I was the first to batter them for that.

As regards producing our own players, our output for professional players given our population, resources, and turning underage cast offs around is something to be proud of. The output for academy players in the 23 tomorrow outside of Leinster is 4 Munster, 2 Ulster and 1 Connacht.

I never made any point about more players in the Ireland matchday squad that was someone else, there are some arguments but best cases 50-50 that I wouldn't have major issue with, I simply said comparing the win-loss record to the other 3 is ridiculous.

Even if there was more Connacht players I felt deserving to be in the 23, why does the results of the club matter if the player is going well? England have 8 different clubs represented in their XV tomorrow, only in Ireland are fans obsessed with provinces performance instead of player performance to justify selection for players.

ShineyShiney

Only Connacht player hard done by not to be in that match day squad is Carty. Roux injured, bundi has been ousted for the first time in 3 years by an improved henshaw.

Lots of guys not far off but we better start proving it in the pro 14 starting tonight.

sydthebeat

Zzippy wrote: »

Syd, you can't berate a team for not producing test players and compare them performance-wise to a province with essentially 4/5 fully funded private academies, and 2 other provinces with far greater budgets being handed players from those academies too. It smacks of entitlement and superiority complex not to see the disparity and to criticise teams for not being as rich, or lucky, as yours. And how many internationals were in that Ospreys team, compared to Connacht's?

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....

So no Connacht lads in the Ireland squad for Sunday. Very disappointing and not a fair reflection on our season especially in the half-back area.

but that being said.... of course we are taking about performance comparisons when considering test players... they have to be compared to their alternatives.
14 leinster, 6 munster and 3 ulster is a very fair reflection if you consider that leinster are 2 from 2 in europe, and 9 from 10 in pro 14. Munster are similar at 2 from 2 in europe and 8 from 10 in pro 14. Ulster are out of europe but challenging leinster with 9 from 10 in pro 14.

connacht are 0 from 2 in europe and 5 from 10 in pro 14.
Thats simply where they are and a big reason why theres no connacht players on show on sunday.

again, i didnt bring this up...

i just took issue that its somehow an 'unfair' situation... because to claim its unfair means there is somehow an unfair bias given towards the other 3 teams.... and THATS a much bigger claim to pin a mast to.

England have 8 different clubs represented in their XV tomorrow, only in Ireland are fans obsessed with provinces performance instead of player performance to justify selection for players

england have 3/4s of their clubs represented in the test squad... humm sounds eerily similar

and just a heads up... it was a connacht fan who complained, in case you didnt realise

its_phil

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Only Connacht player hard done by not to be in that match day squad is Carty. Roux injured, bundi has been ousted for the first time in 3 years by an improved henshaw.

Lots of guys not far off but we better start proving it in the pro 14 starting tonight.

Yeah wouldn't have any arguments for Bundee over Robbie, they are a flip of the coin and Bundee hasn't really played the last 6 weeks. Burns over Carty, there's equally strong arguments for both. Scrum half is the loudest shout possibly but Luke McGrath has a shout too with our guys. You wouldn't have Ultan over Hendy, Beirne or Ryan in second row today. Finlay has been treated awfully by the Irish management after the Georgia nonsense but John Ryan is a good player. The three hookers in Ireland camp right now are not long term solutions to be fair.

Not a whole lot of clear cases for Connacht players to be starting.

Tommybojangles

Scrum half is the only possible place where any connacht player could have a grievance imo and its all much of a muchness between our scrum halves, Leinsters and Murray

Zeugnis

Henshaw has been playing out of his skin, while Aki hasn't been up to his own standard recently. There's no question who has the right to the jersey.

Carty was among those scapegoated, unfairly, for the World Cup failure (see O'Driscoll). Most irish rugby fans do not watch enough Connacht games to know how good Jack can be. And, yes, he has been inconsistent, but the worst of that was post World Cup. I continue to believe that he is the best man to fill J10's boots for now, but Billy Burns has put in creditable performances. Jack will have to wait until the end of Farrell's reign, which may not be that long.

Bazzo

its_phil wrote: »

Yeah wouldn't have any arguments for Bundee over Robbie, they are a flip of the coin and Bundee hasn't really played the last 6 weeks. Burns over Carty, there's equally strong arguments for both. Scrum half is the loudest shout possibly but Luke McGrath has a shout too with our guys. You wouldn't have Ultan over Hendy, Beirne or Ryan in second row today. Finlay has been treated awfully by the Irish management after the Georgia nonsense but John Ryan is a good player. The three hookers in Ireland camp right now are not long term solutions to be fair.

Not a whole lot of clear cases for Connacht players to be starting.

Don't think John Ryan is in the squad? Tom O'Toole is the 3rd tighthead prop iirc

Dubinusa

The results for Connacht are up and down. They haven't sustained a run of wins to build upon and thet reflects in the selection. I think Blade is a possible call up. Marmion seems out of favor with Farrell. No idea why, but Cooney is also being cast aside. Carty imo, is not consistent enough and I think Dillane is unlucky. I think Boyle will get an opportunity soon enough. He's a quality player and I think he gets better each year. I suppose if Connacht were winning their conference and still in Europe, there would be more call ups.

Zzippy

sydthebeat wrote: »

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....

Fair enough. FWIW, and I forgot to include that in my post, I don't think any Connacht players deserved a start, although I think Bealham is hard done by for a bench spot. Furlong can't be anywhere near match fit, I hate seeing players rushed back when a few club games would do them, and Ireland, far more good.

its_phil

sydthebeat wrote: »

first off, im berating no one... i took issue with the claim that no connacht player in the match day 23 was not "fair". I argued, and still do, that that situation is not down to unfairness, but down to where connacht are at currently...

next, it wasnt me who brought up performance comparisons....



but that being said.... of course we are taking about performance comparisons when considering test players... they have to be compared to their alternatives.
14 leinster, 6 munster and 3 ulster is a very fair reflection if you consider that leinster are 2 from 2 in europe, and 9 from 10 in pro 14. Munster are similar at 2 from 2 in europe and 8 from 10 in pro 14. Ulster are out of europe but challenging leinster with 9 from 10 in pro 14.

connacht are 0 from 2 in europe and 5 from 10 in pro 14.
Thats simply where they are and a big reason why theres no connacht players on show on sunday.

again, i didnt bring this up...

i just took issue that its somehow an 'unfair' situation... because to claim its unfair means there is somehow an unfair bias given towards the other 3 teams.... and THATS a much bigger claim to pin a mast to.



england have 3/4s of their clubs represented in the test squad... humm sounds eerily similar

and just a heads up... it was a connacht fan who complained, in case you didnt realise

You litreally compared Connacht's results without anyone bringing results up?

sydthebeat wrote: »

Connacht have lost 2 more games than the other 3 provinces combined

Comparing the results of the other 3 to Connacht is ridiculous when we can't naturally achieve anything close to what the other three have in terms of resources. We have a level and it's closer to the Scarlets and Gloucester than it is to Leinster, Munster, Racing, and Bristol.

If judging players on their international prospects is based on the provinces results rather than players performances, we're screwed. Countries such as England, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, and France don't operate like that.

What has a another Connacht fan complaining got to do with my point about you bringing up results to judge players? Are we not allowed think exclusivley of one another?

FACECUTTR

I'm going to predict a 5 pointer tonight. Hopefully the Ospreys muck show is well and truly put to bed.

SqueakyKneecap

Great work from Sullivan there

SqueakyKneecap

Carty ya beauty!!!!!

OldRio

No yellow card? Odd.

ElisaAtWar

OldRio wrote: »

No yellow card? Odd.

Crazy, Jack clearly taken out in the air. How could it not be a yellow card

SqueakyKneecap

Carty hates the roof of that stand. 2/2 hitting it.

gally74

A1move

SqueakyKneecap

Big Papa!!!!!! Unreal hands

SqueakyKneecap

Sonny Bill Delahunt is back baby!

Bazzo

There's what Papali'i brings... Ashton Hewitt will be having nightmares

sioda

OldRio wrote: »

No yellow card? Odd.

Yellow card every day.

mogwai81

Great score

randomname2005

FACECUTTR wrote: »

I'm going to predict a 5 pointer tonight. Hopefully the Ospreys muck show is well and truly put to bed.

Half way there!

its_phil

I think we’ve all been the Dragons winger at some stage of our lives.

Big back row 5m out, praying you don’t dislocate shoulder, and the temptation to shout your man at someone else just in case they are close enough.

randomname2005

Anyone with a better understanding of Irish or an English commentary explain that penalty against, I think it was Boyle, 20 mins on the clock?

Bazzo

randomname2005 wrote: »

Anyone with a better understanding of Irish or an English commentary explain that penalty against, I think it was Boyle, 20 mins on the clock?

Looked like a good steal to me on the replay alright. Ref blew for "trying to play the ball" I think...

Utopia Parkway

Great to see that maul defence in action again.

Actually defended it well to start but Dragons got set again and motored to the line.

SqueakyKneecap

Connacht getting roasted at maultime. Name a more iconic duo.

randomname2005

Bazzo wrote: »

Looked like a good steal to me on the replay alright. Ref blew for "trying to play the ball" I think...

Thanks, new offense to me.

Euphoriasean

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Great to see that maul defence in action again.

And after driving them back 10 first. No wonder they didnt go for the posts.