Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

khalessi · 02-02-2021 12:34PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/teachers-union-back-to-school-leaving-cert-5318602-Jan2021/

THE ASSOCIATION OF Secondary Teachers in Ireland (ASTI) and Teachers Union of Ireland both directed their members today not to co-operate with the Government’s plan for in-school teaching for Leaving Cert students.

The ASTI instead directed members to engage with remote learning from Monday onwards.

Nothing to do with the government!

Incorrect

That article was 2 days after the CMO stated in his 5th January letter that it was not safe for schools to mobilise. It was also during the time Norma went on a solo run trying to open schools without NPHET guidance or advice from the tanaiste, Taoiseach or NPHET..

MM went on in a later interview to say the Unions were correct.

So It was the CMO keeping schools closed but Norma went against them to reorder the opening of schools and the ASTI and TUI sided with NPHET

billy_beckham · 02-02-2021 12:42PM

khalessi wrote: »

Incorrect

That article was 2 days after the CMO stated in his 5th January letter that it was not safe for schools to mobilise. It was also during the time Norma went on a solo run trying to open schools without NPHET guidance or advice from the tanaiste, Taoiseach or NPHET..

MM went on in a later interview to say the Unions were correct.

So It was the CMO keeping schools closed but Norma went against them to reorder the opening of schools and the ASTI and TUI sided with NPHET

Incorrect. CMO advised against a full re-opening. Government planned for partial, teacher and unions said no....

khalessi · 02-02-2021 12:44PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Incorrect. CMO advised against a full re-opening. Government planned for partial, teacher and unions said no....

He was not consulted about the students returning for the leaving cert neither was the Taoiseach or Tanaiste. Norma announced it without consulting anyone. It was not signed off on. It was the start of all her crap sounding off on various media sites

billy_beckham · 02-02-2021 12:48PM

khalessi wrote: »

He was not consulted about the students returning for the leaving cert neither was the Taoiseach or Tanaiste. Norma announced it without consulting anyone. It was not signed off on. It was the start of all her crap sounding off on various media sites

Still doesn't change the fact, teacher and unions said no....

khalessi · 02-02-2021 12:49PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Still doesn't change the fact, teacher and unions said no....

The Taoiseach said they were right

Norma went on a solo run at a time it was not safe as she was on an ego trip

markodaly · 02-02-2021 12:51PM

khalessi wrote: »

Most people saw through the farce of the government trying to pit the Unions against the children.

Be interesting to see now that Norma has declared herself for children with AEN will she be putting her money where her mouth is and investing in proper resources, timely assessments, proper SNA allocations, proper buildings that are structurally sound. I doubt it as the government have never show one ounce of interest in children with AEN until they thought it would be advantageous politically.

In fairness, the latter points there is about a multi-year strategy for education. Re-opening schools in the midst of a pandemic is NOT the correct way to go about re-orgainsing the entire education sector.

The focus for this year should be getting schools back open again. The rest of the stuff can come after.

markodaly · 02-02-2021 12:55PM

So, what are the exact changes made in the past 2 weeks, whereby teachers have agreed to go back to schools, now and where they refused before?
A few extra masks? Some more spreadsheets from the Dept.?

downthemiddle · 02-02-2021 01:00PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Still doesn't change the fact, teacher and unions said no....

So did the Taoiseach and the CMO.

downthemiddle · 02-02-2021 01:02PM

markodaly wrote: »

So, what are the exact changes made in the past 2 weeks, whereby teachers have agreed to go back to schools, now and where they refused before?
A few extra masks? Some more spreadsheets from the Dept.?

Marko welcome back bud. You make a major assumption there. How can you be sure that the teachers can read the spreadsheets?

markodaly · 02-02-2021 01:03PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Marko welcome back bud. You make a major assumption there. How can you be sure that the teachers can read the spreadsheets?

I am being serious, what are the details of the new agreement and what are the changes made between this deal and what was on offer two weeks ago.

The public has a right to know here, or was it all smoke and mirrors?

downthemiddle · 02-02-2021 01:08PM

markodaly wrote: »

I am being serious, what are the details of the new agreement and what are the changes made between this deal and what was on offer two weeks ago.

The public has a right to know here, or was it all smoke and mirrors?

The two wonderful ministers published a press release yesterday. It is freely available.
Your "right to know" is a matter of public knowledge.

markodaly · 02-02-2021 01:09PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

The two wonderful ministers published a press release yesterday. It is freely available.
Your "right to know" is a matter of public knowledge.

As far as I can tell, there is very little different, or even detail in what demands were met the past 2 weeks.

That is why I asked.

CapriciousOne · 02-02-2021 01:15PM

markodaly wrote: »

So, what are the exact changes made in the past 2 weeks, whereby teachers have agreed to go back to schools, now and where they refused before?
A few extra masks? Some more spreadsheets from the Dept.?

- Cases in the community are now lower than they were two weeks ago
- It's a limited/50% reopening with high-risk/pregnant teachers/SNAs allowed to work remotely for the duration of the "phased reopening"
- Additional funding for surgical masks
- SNAs bumped up vaccine list
- More of a focus on risk assessment; teachers are now being asked to fill out return to work forms/declarations there have been no change in health circumstances over break
- Discussions continuing over implementing serial antigen testing

TL;DR No, not just a few extra masks.

downthemiddle · 02-02-2021 01:16PM

markodaly wrote: »

As far as I can tell, there is very little different, or even detail in what demands were met the past 2 weeks.

That is why I asked.

Ah well Marko, all the partners involved in the discussions have agreed to them. I'm sure you will agree it is good news.

markodaly · 02-02-2021 01:20PM

CapriciousOne wrote: »

- Cases in the community are now lower than they were two weeks ago
- It's a limited/50% reopening with high-risk/pregnant teachers/SNAs allowed to work remotely for the duration of the "phased reopening"
- Additional funding for surgical masks
- SNAs bumped up vaccine list
- More of a focus on risk assessment; teachers are now being asked to fill out return to work forms/declarations there have been no change in health circumstances over break
- Discussions continuing over implementing serial antigen testing

TL;DR No, not just a few extra masks.

OK, glad to hear it.

To be honest, a lot of that stuff was agreed last time out, like the phased reopening and the more vulnerable teachers being given leave to work remotely or not at all.
To be honest, it appears the issue two weeks ago as much ado about nothing looking at the agreement today.

CapriciousOne · 02-02-2021 01:28PM

markodaly wrote: »

OK, glad to hear it.

To be honest, a lot of that stuff was agreed last time out, like the phased reopening and the more vulnerable teachers being given leave to work remotely or not at all.
To be honest, it appears the issue two weeks ago as much ado about nothing looking at the agreement today.

This is incorrect.

You also conveniently skipped over the vaccine prioritisation, which Norma categorically stated wouldn't be happening and was very high on the agenda of the unions. If/when teachers/SNAs are vaccinated the majority of the other concerns are moot.

PoolDude · 02-02-2021 01:52PM

So 60% got the same or worse grades in today’s LC results.

I'd say if they go hybrid it will be interesting to see if students know their PG & would they pick their worst subject or best subjects to take predicted grades in.

Based on the fact 60% are the same or less you might pick your worst and then try to maximise the results in your best by focusing on them knowing there is a 40% chance you'd do better than a PG and that was with 4 months or more extra study time and having completed the course with less class time missed

Also interesting to see circa 80k CAO applicants up 6k you but with apparently 5k new places in college announced previously it’s almost awash.

Interesting to see when schools will re open now

TTLF · 02-02-2021 02:26PM

PoolDude wrote: »

So 60% got the same or worse grades in today’s LC results.

I'd say if they go hybrid it will be interesting to see if students know their PG & would they pick their worst subject or best subjects to take predicted grades in.

Based on the fact 60% are the same or less you might pick your worst and then try to maximise the results in your best by focusing on them knowing there is a 40% chance you'd do better than a PG and that was with 4 months or more extra study time and having completed the course with less class time missed

Also interesting to see circa 80k CAO applicants up 6k you but with apparently 5k new places in college announced previously it’s almost awash.

Interesting to see when schools will re open now

Exactly what I was thinking. I could put the subjects I'm guaranteed to get a good grade in aside for predicted, and work on German, Irish and maybe Maths to get those up to a better standard and do the exam. It's a real mess of a answer. My Irish teacher was very bullish on the idea we'll be sitting them somewhat traditionally and it sparked a small conversation in the class.

I wouldn't mind the choice of focusing on the subjects I do bad in and getting them up, but then again the bell curve is the bell curve so... :pac:

C__MC · 02-02-2021 02:30PM

Given that Norma pushed for LCs to be back when there was 8000 cases , why is there no word to get at least LC back by 22nd when cases will.prob be under 1000?

TTLF · 02-02-2021 02:36PM

C__MC wrote: »

Given that Norma pushed for LCs to be back when there was 8000 cases , why is there no word to get at least LC back by 22nd when cases will.prob be under 1000?

My guess is that they don't want to make an arse of it like last time and rush people back to school.

If special classes in mainstream are only back after midterm, then we're probably further out since we're in an age bracket worse off to the virus in terms of effects/actually being symptomatic unlike a younger child.

Also I think it's because they really want to focus on special schools and really nail it in/get it right since it failed to open up twice.

Loafing Oaf · 02-02-2021 02:47PM

C__MC wrote: »

Given that Norma pushed for LCs to be back when there was 8000 cases , why is there no word to get at least LC back by 22nd when cases will.prob be under 1000?

Everything happening behind closed doors now, Norma doesn't want to be seen to be trying to bounce schools into reopening again.

Idbatterim · 02-02-2021 02:50PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/teachers-union-back-to-school-leaving-cert-5318602-Jan2021/

THE ASSOCIATION OF Secondary Teachers in Ireland (ASTI) and Teachers Union of Ireland both directed their members today not to co-operate with the Government’s plan for in-school teaching for Leaving Cert students.

The ASTI instead directed members to engage with remote learning from Monday onwards.

Nothing to do with the government!

government ultimately call the shots, get them vaccinated asap or if they wont cooperate, implement pay cuts... I mean it wont happen here, because our government can only say yes, not no. But in normal countries, you have the government calling the shots, not unions...

Wombatman · 02-02-2021 03:54PM

PoolDude wrote: »

So 60% got the same or worse grades in today’s LC results.

I'd say if they go hybrid it will be interesting to see if students know their PG & would they pick their worst subject or best subjects to take predicted grades in.

Based on the fact 60% are the same or less you might pick your worst and then try to maximise the results in your best by focusing on them knowing there is a 40% chance you'd do better than a PG and that was with 4 months or more extra study time and having completed the course with less class time missed

Also interesting to see circa 80k CAO applicants up 6k you but with apparently 5k new places in college announced previously it’s almost awash.

Interesting to see when schools will re open now

Yeah. As expected, CAO applications hit record levels. More misery for the 2021 LCs as they will probably require higher points to secure a college place. They will be up against many 2020 LCs who's points will be made up of predicted grades. The 2020 LCs will get offered places first, leaving fewer places for the 2021 LCs.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/cao-applications-hit-record-levels-40038770.html

yrreg0850 · 02-02-2021 04:05PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

YAWN.

An example of how these well paid public sector employees view those of us in the private sector.

Stateofyou · 02-02-2021 05:09PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

government ultimately call the shots, get them vaccinated asap or if they wont cooperate, implement pay cuts... I mean it wont happen here, because our government can only say yes, not no. But in normal countries, you have the government calling the shots, not unions...

yrreg0850 wrote: »

If they were in the private sector, they would be deemed to be on strike with no salary.

In "normal" countries they have capable leaders who make the right calls and put in the hard work it takes to come up with contingency plans, working properly with their education, health, and government partners instead of making absolute balls of everything.

The unions should have NEVER had to step in to protect their workers here, and in turn very vulnerable students.

Norma's performance and lack of results is what deserves a lack of a salary. Very poor return for the oversight and direction she is supposed to be leading with for us all.

SusanC10 · 02-02-2021 06:00PM

Couple of questions

Is it just SNAs who have been bumped up the Vaccine List ? What about Teachers ? Also which Group do they now fall into ?
(I am in favour of them being in a higher group than originally).

Also, any thoughts on when older Primary kids (5th/6th) and non-Exam Secondary students will be going back ? Bearing in mind that the Easter Holidays start on March 26th.

Any word on whether Masks could become mandatory for older Primary kids?

Will there be remote support for kids whose Parents don't want to send them back immediately ?
I thought that I read this in an article but when I went to look for it again I couldn't find it.

Thanks all

Birdy · 02-02-2021 06:01PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-55904466

Necro · 02-02-2021 06:06PM

Mod:

Can we quite the passive aggressive responses to posters please? Report and STOP reacting if you feel someone is trolling.

combat14 · 02-02-2021 07:06PM

we are still not out of the woods yet as new concerns are raised about the uk strain mutations which could affect vaccine effectiveness

Mutations of concern' found in Bristol and Liverpool

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1194589/

km79 · 02-02-2021 07:17PM

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1356667315169935374

That’s horrendous

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01