What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

mick087 · 28-01-2021 02:50PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yet you were also calling for a hypothetical as-yet-unformed and unelected body to coordinate the vaccine on a global scale.

Glad you recall it was hypothetical.

brickster69 · 28-01-2021 02:52PM

Interesting article in the Spectator

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-vaccine-row-shows-the-eu-doesn-t-understand-contract-law

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 02:52PM

mick087 wrote: »

Glad you recall it was hypothetical.

The body was hypothetical because it does not exist yet.

You preference for it to be set up was real though.

I'm just trying to understand your logic.

28-01-2021 02:52PM

Nigel Farage has waded into the AstraZeneca-EU question and makes the powerful point that this entire affair is one set on punishing the UK because they decided to opt to Brexit.

It makes the EU look petty and vindictive. Brexit Britain is set to inoculate 10% of her population, meanwhile the overly bureaucratic EU can't even get its ducks in the right order, languishing behind at 2-3%.

AstraZeneca are, as a private company, perfectly entitled to operate as they wish under the terms of agreement they signed.

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 02:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigel Farage has waded into the AstraZeneca-EU question and makes the powerful point that this entire affair is one set on punishing the UK because they decided to opt to Brexit.

It makes the EU look petty and vindictive.

AstraZeneca are, as a private company, perfectly entitled to operate as they wish under the terms of agreement they signed.

Interesting signature you have.

is_that_so · 28-01-2021 02:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigel Farage has waded into the AstraZeneca-EU question and makes the powerful point that this entire affair is one set on punishing the UK because they decided to opt to Brexit.

It makes the EU look petty and vindictive.

AstraZeneca are, as a private company, perfectly entitled to operate as they wish under the terms of agreement they signed.

Farage! Powerful points? More like made up rubbish again.

28-01-2021 02:57PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Farage! Powerful points? More like made up rubbish again?

Play the ball, not the man.

I doubt you even listened to the points he raised.

mick087 · 28-01-2021 02:59PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

They could have started negotiating last March for all it's worth, AZ would still have only sought approval this Jan and they still would have had a shortfall in production/delivery.

If there was only 30mil doses ready Q1 and all EU member states done their own deals, I'd say we would be far down the pecking order and it most certainly wouldn't have been rolled out equally.

Yes the AZ issue is a shortfall yes.
The AZ issue must be an issue for the courts.

As a EU citizen i would like to know why other countries was able to order act quicker then than EU commission.
Why did they order 3 months later?
Was this an acceptable amount of time before ordering in a emergency situation.

I do not think these are unreasonable questions.

These are our representatives.

Pete_Cavan · 28-01-2021 03:01PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Interesting signature you have.

Interesting is a rather subdued word considering he calls you "Tremendous" and part of The Fabulous Four!

is_that_so · 28-01-2021 03:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Play the ball, not the man.

I doubt you even listened to the points he raised.

He has to earn that first and he's just not remotely credible on anything. He's been caught out spoofing and making things up so often I'd listen to a three year old telling me about the fairy she just saw, first!

28-01-2021 03:04PM

basill wrote: »

I heard the EU talk about "best effort" yesterday. AZ CEO mentions same. Its the sort of wording that politicians love as it is suitably vague and doesn't hold them accountable. To include it in a commercial legally binding contract and be relying on it now would appear to be foolhardy if that is the case.

AZ CEO states a number of times in the following interview that they never committed to the EU, only offered "best effort".

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article225095715/Astra-Zeneca-CEO-I-do-believe-we-treated-Europe-fairly.html

Best efforts, reasonable efforts, best endeavours etc. are all used regularly in commercial contracts. It is vague, but can still be argued in a court of law.

Think of it as "Sorry the delivery is late, the truck broke down"
Did you not have another lorry?
Could you have hired one?
did it need to go by truck?
Could you have contacted the customer and used their lorry?

At some point, a judge will decide whether or not the measures you went to in order to try and honour the contract are those that can be reasonably expected.

However, in the case of a vaccine being produced during a pandemic, especially one that relies on a certain degree of alchemy, that won't be easy though.

mick087 · 28-01-2021 03:04PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

1

The body was hypothetical because it does not exist yet.
Yes hypothetical remember?

You preference for it to be set up was real though.
So from hypothetical its now preference yes?

I'm just trying to understand your logic.
Understand or jest?

28-01-2021 03:05PM

AstraZeneca’s vaccine production site in Belgium was raided yesterday at the request of the European Commission, as Brussels continued to heap pressure on the British company over delays in jab deliveries.

Brussels has demanded millions of AstraZeneca vaccines made in Britain be diverted to the EU but the company said British orders had to be fulfilled first before supplies could be switched.

It has also threatened an export ban on EU-produced vaccines, jeopardising the UK’s supply of the Pfizer jab.

The Belgian Health Minister said that the raid was carried out on behalf of the commission. It was aimed at proving whether or not AstraZeneca’s explanation for the failure in supply was genuine.

This is power without accountability; it's the way that foreign autocrats behave when they do not get their own way.

A shame that the EU has gone down such a disastrous path.

It can only blame itself for its own ineptitude over failing to procure these vaccines.

28-01-2021 03:07PM

Libb1964 wrote: »

Cambridge!!!!
I did just find out it was the Pfizer vaccine she had which might explain why she had to go to a specific centre.

that makes sense. It seems every town hall, race course and mosque is being turned in to a vaccine hub, but I would imagine most of them are dishing out the AZ vaccine.

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 03:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nigel Farage has waded into the AstraZeneca-EU question and makes the powerful point that this entire affair is one set on punishing the UK because they decided to opt to Brexit.

It makes the EU look petty and vindictive. Brexit Britain is set to inoculate 10% of her population, meanwhile the overly bureaucratic EU can't even get its ducks in the right order, languishing behind at 2-3%.

AstraZeneca are, as a private company, perfectly entitled to operate as they wish under the terms of agreement they signed.

I don't want Farage involved, note the way Borris Johnson has been fairly quiet and Gove of all people has kept a positive tone "We will want to talk to and with our friends in Europe to see how we can help,” U.K. Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove said Thursday on ITV. “But the really important thing is to make sure our own vaccination program proceeds precisely as planned,” he added.

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/u-k-offers-help-as-eu-faces-vaccine-shortage-after-astra-fiasco
Copyright © BloombergQuint

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 03:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is power without accountability; it's the way that foreign autocrats behave when they do not get their own way.

A shame that the EU has gone down such a disastrous path.

It can only blame itself for its own ineptitude over failing to procure these vaccines.

who is being held accountable for the f*ckup that is the UK response to covid?

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 03:15PM

Nigel Farage and Daily Telegraph links, do us a favour lads

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 03:16PM

Aegir wrote: »

that makes sense. It seems every town hall, race course and mosque is being turned in to a vaccine hub, but I would imagine most of them are dishing out the AZ vaccine.

yet this 84 year old had to take a taxi 20 miles to get hers

hilarious

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 03:17PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Interesting article in the Spectator

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-vaccine-row-shows-the-eu-doesn-t-understand-contract-law

bastion of good journalism there

he doesnt know didly about it, but yet has an opinion

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 03:18PM

emmalynn19 wrote: »

Nigel Farage and Daily Telegraph links, do us a favour lads

look a lot of wasters have a lot of time on their hands due to the old PUP payments and the dole

this is what you end up with

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 03:19PM

What do the BNP, the National Front and Combat 18 think about the whole thing?

fly_agaric · 28-01-2021 03:22PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

look a lot of wasters have a lot of time on their hands due to the old PUP payments and the dole

this is what you end up with

God is going to smite me for it or something (dose of Covid or a bolt of lightning), but I'll admit I laughed.

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 03:22PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

bastion of good journalism there

he doesnt know didly about it, but yet has an opinion

Well can we get a lawyer with a more pro-EU's opinion article here? Seriously it would be interesting to read a opposing opinion on it? Like the fact that the delivery period isn't even over presumably means they can't be in breach of contract yet is correct?

28-01-2021 03:24PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

yet this 84 year old had to take a taxi 20 miles to get hers

hilarious

you have a very "Odd" sense of humour.:rolleyes:

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 03:24PM

mick087 wrote: »

The body was hypothetical because it does not exist yet.
Yes hypothetical remember?

You preference for it to be set up was real though.
So from hypothetical its now preference yes?

I'm just trying to understand your logic.
Understand or jest?

You appeared to express a preference for the vaccine rollout to be done on a coordinated global basis. no?

But you also appear to have a philosophical objection to the principle of it being coordinated on an EU-wide basis instead of a per-country basis.

I'm not taking the piss.

There is a concept of transitivity in logic and it seems to me that your argument appears to violate that.

HalfAndHalf · 28-01-2021 03:25PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

bastion of good journalism there

he doesnt know didly about it, but yet has an opinion

Did you even read the article? The ‘journalist’ is a barrister, well versed in contract law and makes comments based on a vaccine supply contract published by the EU (you can assume is a copy paste of the one for AZ, Pfizer et all).

Yet you say he doesn’t know diddly about but has an opinion. Which is pretty much yourself.

I’d go as far as to say he knows more about contract law and the published vaccine supply contract the EU published than yourself, AND has actually read it.

Dismissing something just because you don’t want to hear it isn’t how the world works!!

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 03:25PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Interesting is a rather subdued word considering he calls you "Tremendous" and part of The Fabulous Four!

To be fair, I do make exceedingly good cakes posts.

Libb1964 · 28-01-2021 03:26PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

yet this 84 year old had to take a taxi 20 miles to get hers

hilarious

I can't tell you exactly how the system works, but I can tell you she lives in Coton Cambridge, uses Comberton gp surgery and the surgery sent her to Royston.
She had previously been told she could get a vaccination in Stevenage which was even more ridiculous!!

She didn't take them up on the offer

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 03:27PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Did you even read the article? The ‘journalist’ is a barrister, well versed in contract law and makes comments based on a vaccine supply contract published by the EU (you can assume is a copy paste of the one for AZ, Pfizer et all).

Yet you say he doesn’t know diddly about but has an opinion. Which is pretty much yourself.

I’d go as far as to say he knows more about contract law and the published vaccine supply contract the EU published than yourself, AND has actually read it.

Dismissing something just because you don’t want to hear it isn’t how the world works!!

did you? he admits he knows didly about it at the start

its in the spectator

what more do you need

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 03:28PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

look a lot of wasters have a lot of time on their hands due to the old PUP payments and the dole

this is what you end up with

F-ck if you can get me off sitting on my hole on the pup because industry is 90% shutdown I'd be really really happily stop posting on this thread so much!

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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