What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

gally74 · 28-01-2021 09:42AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Let's be honest, its AZ that hold all the power in this argument.

The EU commission can huff and puff all they want, but its not like they can cancel orders or anything, they need AZ.

Incorrect.

micks_address · 28-01-2021 09:44AM

Renault 5 wrote: »

But thats not how it was.

EU requested months ago for AZ to have 80m doses ready within Q1 and another 80m doses ready for Q2.

This is an agreement the EU had with AZ which AZ are not denying.

Sure but the point is they had to manufacture it and failed to meet the target in that manufacturing plant. What do the EU want? A sorry we failed to meet our target but we will catch up asap promise?

SheepsClothing · 28-01-2021 09:47AM

Whatever the rights or the wrongs of it all, there's no getting away from the fact that the EU are looking like the fish at the table currently.

NIMAN · 28-01-2021 09:49AM

gally74 wrote: »

Incorrect.

What have I said that's incorrect?

If AZ can't produce enough of the vaccine to fulfil orders, how can EU make them go faster?

mick087 · 28-01-2021 09:50AM

average_runner wrote: »

There is no evidence from the trial to show this. UK are taking a gamble here.
We should go by what the trial showed and no shortcuts

Remember this is an emergency situation.
Emergency measures are required.

The UK's chief medical officers have defended the Covid vaccination plan.
Are we being slow out the blocks again like the EU commission was on ordering this vaccine?

28-01-2021 09:53AM

micks_address wrote: »

Sure but the point is they had to manufacture it and failed to meet the target in that manufacturing plant. What do the EU want? A sorry we failed to meet our target but we will catch up asap promise?

They want to know why other countries orders are being fulfilled on time, and they are the only ones suffering a major shortfall. It's a fair question.

Why isn't everyone's supply being reduced proportionally? The EU say that their agreement lists four plants, including two in the UK, as suppliers. So the argument from AZ that EU stock can only come from an EU plants doesn't seem credible.

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 09:54AM

NIMAN wrote: »

What have I said that's incorrect?

If AZ can't produce enough of the vaccine to fulfil orders, how can EU make them go faster?

AZ can put money into fixing whatever the problem is.

If there is a problem, fix it. and fix it now.

brickster69 · 28-01-2021 09:54AM

Sounds promising

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-manufacturing-covid-vaccine-valneva-b906243.html

Renault 5 · 28-01-2021 09:56AM

micks_address wrote: »

Sure but the point is they had to manufacture it and failed to meet the target in that manufacturing plant. What do the EU want? A sorry we failed to meet our target but we will catch up asap promise?

The EU are simply looking for answers and AZ are very vague when answering them.

I would think here are some of the questions.

1. In which facilities was EU money invested in.

2. How many doses have been produced so far in the Dutch and Belgian facilities.

3.Where are these doses that were produced in the above facilities atm.

4. IF the above doses are not in storage, where they distributed to any countries outside of the EU.

hotmail.com · 28-01-2021 10:04AM

micosoft wrote: »

And what happens when Germany, France, Belgium, Italy all decide to jump the queue too? And then we discover we are 14 or 15 back?

I mean, apart from being an appallingly unethical idea that we show no solidarity with poorer EU countries, it is just not a clever idea because the other EU countries aren't stupid and have managed (the not very difficult task) of looking one step further on your logic. That logic would mean everybody would lose badly and vaccines would take much much longer in a chaotic free for all.

This is aside from the absurd fallacy that we can't somehow trust the EU because one supplier have not delivered on their commitments.

You don't think these countries are already trying to source vaccines for themselves?

Ethics and "looking good" comes second when it comes to the health of the nation.

As someone with elderly grandparents who have been stuck at home the past year, I don't really care about hurting the EU's feelings and I suspect most people feel the same.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-01-2021 10:04AM

Renault 5 wrote: »

The EU are simply looking for answers and AZ are very vague when answering them.

I would think here are some of the questions.

1. In which facilities was EU money invested in.

2. How many doses have been produced so far in the Dutch and Belgian facilities.

3.Where are these doses that were produced in the above facilities atm.

4. IF the above doses are not in storage, where they distributed to any countries outside of the EU.

My understanding is

Eu money was invested in 2uk and 2 eu plants. These were named in the contract.

The UK plants were listed as primary production sites for the eu vaccine supply.

Astra Zenaca is now trying to say that the EU will be supplied by the EU plants while the UK plants will supply the UK and other countries.

EDIT: I suspect that AZ has stockpiled doses from the EU plants for the EU but the UK plants are also named in the EU contract. I suspect that AZ has had genuine production problems across all plants. It just feels bad that we are the only one to suffer.

If AZ had of said we have production problems everyone is getting their deliveries cut by 20% the EU probably would have moved on. Instead we are trying to claim what the contract allows us to.

fly_agaric · 28-01-2021 10:05AM

Renault 5 wrote: »

The EU are simply looking for answers and AZ are very vague when answering them.

I would think here are some of the questions.

1. In which facilities was EU money invested in.

2. How many doses have been produced so far in the Dutch and Belgian facilities.

3.Where are these doses that were produced in the above facilities atm.

4. IF the above doses are not in storage, where they distributed to any countries outside of the EU.

They are all interesting questions.

The EU paid money upfront to have this company produce these vaccines.
It has come out, very, very late in the day (as far as we know...who knew what when is another question) that they haven't got a hope of delivering on their huge order in Q1 this year.

I mean it may come good at some point later in the year (we hope), or next year for all I know but being 60% down on a target is quite bad.

The CEO was somewhat arrogant in that interview that was linked here (blaming the EU really + bringing in a contrast with the UK).
I suppose you'd expect from a leader of a giant company who (like others in that priest class) believes governments are merely their servants/supplicants to come up with bales of cash on demand. What they think of us peons probably doesn't bear printing.

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 10:16AM

Billy Kelleher (Irish MEP) getting his Arse handed to him on Claire Byrne at the moment

gifted · 28-01-2021 10:16AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Billy Kelleher (Irish MEP) getting his Arse handed to him on Claire Byrne at the moment

And that's a surprise?

MoyVilla9 · 28-01-2021 10:18AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Billy Kelleher (Irish MEP) getting his Arse handed to him on Claire Byrne at the moment

This is mortifying to listen to.

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 10:18AM

gifted wrote: »

And that's a surprise?

No but enjoyable to listen to, EU have messed up here and it's embarrassing for a British MP to explain it

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 10:19AM

MoyVilla9 wrote: »

This is mortifying to listen to.

Couldn't agree more

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 10:21AM

Just amazing, a British MP basically saying if they were still in the EU their vaccine Roll out would be far less than it is. EU took 3 months to sign contract.

micks_address · 28-01-2021 10:22AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

My understanding is

Eu money was invested in 2uk and 2 eu plants. These were named in the contract.

The UK plants were listed as primary production sites for the eu vaccine supply.

Astra Zenaca is now trying to say that the EU will be supplied by the EU plants while the UK plants will supply the UK and other countries.

If the UK plant was listed as EU manufacturing then there's definitely some redress due... a free months supply to the EU? Last thing that's needed is some kind of legal entanglement which means the EU supply stops altogether.

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 10:24AM

micks_address wrote: »

If the UK plant was listed as EU manufacturing then there's definitely some redress due... a free months supply to the EU? Last thing that's needed is some kind of legal entanglement which means the EU supply stops altogether.

Just one slight problem with that argument, Britain no longer in the EU.

bobmalooka · 28-01-2021 10:24AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

You don't think these countries are already trying to source vaccines for themselves?

Ethics and "looking good" comes second when it comes to the health of the nation.

As someone with elderly grandparents who have been stuck at home the past year, I don't really care about hurting the EU's feelings and I suspect most people feel the same.

You keep missing the glaringly obvious point - going on a solo run isn’t just an exercise in appeasing our neighbours. It is an act of pooling resources and influence.

People seem to think that countries going on a solo run is something that would occur in a bubble where all other things remain constant.

If every EU country goes on a solo run take a few guesses how we would fare out.

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 10:25AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Just amazing, a British MP basically saying if they were still in the EU their vaccine Roll out would be far less than it is. EU took 3 months to sign contract.

A British MP basically lying. Just amazing alright! Who'd have thought it!

Britian went on their own with regulation and purchasing prior to leaving the EU and within the EU rules. Ireland could have done the same (and still could) while within the EU.

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 10:25AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Just one slight problem with that argument, Britain no longer in the EU.

Why is that a problem?

Does import and export of good and services between EU and non-EU countries not still happen?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-01-2021 10:26AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Just one slight problem with that argument, Britain no longer in the EU.

According to quotes from an EC official last night the European Commission contract with Astra Zenaca names 4 plants as being primary production facilities for the EU supplies of the vaccine.

The fact that some of those plants are outside the EU does not mean that Astra Zenaca are not bound by the contract.

mick087 · 28-01-2021 10:34AM

bobmalooka wrote: »

If every EU country goes on a solo run take a few guesses how we would fare out.

Very true but how do you think the EU commission has fared out so far?

Call me Al · 28-01-2021 10:36AM

How long will it take for Sanofi to switch across to the Pfizer product?
Is this a 6+ month project? Or can something like this be done swiftly?

mick087 · 28-01-2021 10:37AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

According to quotes from an EC official last night the European Commission contract with Astra Zenaca names 4 plants as being primary production facilities for the EU supplies of the vaccine.

The fact that some of those plants are outside the EU does not mean that Astra Zenaca are not bound by the contract.

Let the courts decide about the contract.

What is the EU commissions plan B? What are the plans now for the vaccine?

brickster69 · 28-01-2021 10:38AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

According to quotes from an EC official last night the European Commission contract with Astra Zenaca names 4 plants as being primary production facilities for the EU supplies of the vaccine.

The fact that some of those plants are outside the EU does not mean that Astra Zenaca are not bound by the contract.

According to the CEO there are 4 plants for AZ in the EU. Italy, Germany, Holland & Belgium. Without knowing for sure, it is not difficult to imagine the EU to only use EU plants

28-01-2021 10:40AM

brickster69 wrote: »

According to the CEO there are 4 plants for AZ in the EU. Italy, Germany, Holland & Belgium. Without knowing for sure, it is not difficult to imagine the EU to only use EU plants

The EU have stated that two of the four plants listed in the agreement are in the UK.

brickster69 · 28-01-2021 10:40AM

Looks like Serbia are going full steam ahead.

https://twitter.com/marcusa38668771/status/1354734973484470272/photo/2

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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