Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

blue5000 wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but I've heard fake tyres are being produced in China now too.

Years ago I read a book about the Italian mafia and their business interests beyond the obvious stuff and fakes were a huge part of it. Fashion brands were a biggie and it got so bad that when one brand ran out of stock they went to the mafia to get it and put on genuine labels. Worse than that the fake stuff was apparently better made. Another episode concerned a dressmaker who was asked to make up a couture dress for a mafia boss. He assumed it was for this guy's wife or mistress, but he made it and a few weeks his daughter while watching the telly spotted the dress on some minor Hollywood starlet. Fake car parts were common enough, some even finding their way into manufacturing, but way more worrying was fake aircraft parts. :eek: The fakes of all kinds were made in Italy, or China or in Eastern Europe. China appeared to have strong trading and transit links with Italy

Seems to be a lot more interest in this forum compared to 12 months ago. If there's any new people on here that are thinking about buying a watch for the first time and are unsure don't be afraid to ask. I started out with very little knowledge, I'm always learning, and I have to emphasize I am not an expert of any sort.

What I'm trying to say is most of us who have been here for a few years are a helpful bunch, don't be afraid to join in.

+1

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Its scary how good some of those reps are

I just don't understand wearing a fake watch, I have no problem with a homage that is near identical but without the logo. That said my seiko great while dial says seiko on it even though its aftermarket ( I got it with parts and didn't know it was am at the time). But my mod is a mod and not trying to pass as a genuine watch

It comes up quite a lot in some of the watch modding fb groups using aftermarket dials that have the brand name on it. Its a tough one with mods, at what point is it not a seiko / vostok anymore? Is it any better using a genuine seiko dial on a mod made of all after market parts than using a aftermarket dial on an otherwise standard seiko

Homages and replicas are a grey area in a lot of ways. If we look at cars you can go and buy a replica 30's Bugatti race car from an outfit in Argentina Pur Sang. Identical down to the last nut, bolt and badge, save for plain bearings and a more efficient firing order(and you can even order them). Parts are fully interchangeable with originals.



They're truly "in house" too, because of Argentina's strict import laws. They even make the tyres on site. Another outfit in the UK will build you a replica of a Ferrari SWB down to the last nut and bolt, using authentic Ferrari running gear in a new handmade body.There's a guy in New Zealand that hand makes Ferrari 250 GTO's along the same lines. Apparently because of the crazy value of the originals and difficulty in getting insurance a few of the ones seen racing at festivals are the replicas.

Now they're old cars long out of production is one take on things, but taking that to watches, would it be OK to make a mm perfect replica of an original Panerai from the 30's, or a Longines Hour Angle, or a 60s Big Crown Rolex, or Blancpain 50 fathoms? Personally I say no, outside of a one off personal project, that like the replica cars above can be easily proven to not be originals, but it's at least debatable.

And yes I'd buy that Bugatti in a heartbeat. They also do a replica of a pre war Alfa.

Thirdfox wrote: »

Just don't ever crash in a vintage car

Well you'd be boned in the Bugatti. One reason racing drivers were against seatbelts in those days was they preferred to be thrown from the car in the event of an accident as they considered that more survivable. :eek: The 250 GTO/SWB ten to have full roll cages and racing harnesses fitted so you'd be well bruised after a smack, but much more survivable.

Fitz II wrote: »

There is nothing out there for 8k that will cover its maintenance, insurance costs and storage costs which are considerable. A watch costs nothing to own, but cars will kill you......

This. Plus which car do you go for? Fashions change and what might be the hot car on the bottom of its depreciation curve today may be a meh car in the future. My own car(Honda Integra R) that I held onto by mistake an example of that. They went dirt cheap and meh and very boy racer with halfords "improvements" for a time, now prices for good unmolested original cars in the last three years have really strengthened and are going upwards(they're insane money in the US). Whereas its mark 2 version was seen as the thing back then, now have stagnated because nobody wants them. Outside of actual exotics it's very hard to tell.

Plus cars don't like being stored for very long and the more modern a car, the more fancy electronics that can go off over time. In a hundred years time a hammer, some WD40 and muttered profanities will get a Ford model T going again, a Ford Focus ST not so much. Not unlike the quartz/mechanical longevity debate in watches.

And then we get to all the other costs Fitz mentioned... I've a couple of relatives into vintage cars, 50's Alfas and the like and yeah some of the are knocking on 100k plus now, but as they'll tell you it took decades and a lot of cash to keep them going to get to that point and they never had investment in mind, they just love particular cars.

It can be a generational thing too. The 50's chrome era of classics market has really softened, quite simply because many of the collectors who were kids who couldn't buy them back then have gone on to the eternal road in the sky. That'll happen to the 60's 70's 80's and so on cars too. Then we have the whole electric cars thing and how that's going to change things a lot. In 30 years time you may not be even able to drive an old car on the road.

I started out at 5 and occupy each number in the curve up to 9. Though 6 covers 7, 8 and 9.:D

I did, but they were vintage(and a couple of Tudor). Also had a new Seiko(but that was a present when I was a kid). Have a Heuer minus the TAG and a couple of decent swiss went through my hands over the years. Though again vintage.

Rolex simply never appealed to me for some reason. And in 1990(I remember it really well) I was in London looking at vintage and used watches in a few places. The selection amazed me coming from the feck all that was here and all sorts of steel Rolex could be had for well under a grand. I was offered a milsub though I didnt know what it was tbh, for 2-3k IIRC. I know now it was a milsub because the dealer was giving me the UK military issued background pointing out the differences and jokingly mentioned it might not suit an Irish guy(in a very nice way. He was a nice old bloke, but the times were a bit different then). I ended up getting a Stowa B-Uhr for under 300 quid. Totally unwearable of course. Doh. I made a fair few quid when I sold it on years later, but if I'd have bought the Milsub. Double Doh!!!

I just don't like their designs, though I was tempted by an Oysterquartz and might be tempted again when the market finds other tulips. The Milgauss is nice but for me and IMHO isn't worth the pricepoint. Modern Zenith never appealed either. Even with my fave brand Longines their modern designs didn't and don't appeal. Their vintage reissues can, but I'd prefer the originals. Omegas... ehh sometimes. My fave period for them would be the 70's and I have one of them. I've just got weird taste Fitz