Sage Barista Express

Damo 2k9 · 21-01-2021 3:33pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Sage are now asking me for a video of me making a coffee, from the point of turning on the machine to the end. They really don't want to send a shim kit...

I'll post it here beforehand and see what people think. I could be doing something wrong or there's something I could improve on, but I'm pretty sure I'm following all the instructions from videos.

Thats shocking from them, I swear I have read stories of people getting complete machine replacements for less.

Hodors Appletart · 21-01-2021 3:39pm

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Thats shocking from them, I swear I have read stories of people getting complete machine replacements for less.

could be they've no or low stock and want to sell it rather than send it out as a replacement

it does seem very onerous

FileNotFound · 22-01-2021 2:53pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Sage are now asking me for a video of me making a coffee, from the point of turning on the machine to the end. They really don't want to send a shim kit...

I'll post it here beforehand and see what people think. I could be doing something wrong or there's something I could improve on, but I'm pretty sure I'm following all the instructions from videos.

When did you buy your machine? If its under a year - you have standard irish consumer rights liability (or is it 2 years these days)- just throw it back over the counter at them - if they argue let them show you how to make it work.

No point wasting your time on SAGE - they are also empty of most parts on their site - may actually be an issue.

FileNotFound · 22-01-2021 3:08pm

carq wrote: »

The only thing I can think of is the heat of the water, maybe the machine has warmed up between the first and second and maybe that impacts the output/ pressure.

That or the Volume is not consistant.
Just did a retest and even removed the protafilter

Double shot 1 - 74.27g
Double shot 2 - 71.5 g
Double shot 3 - 68.5g
Double shot 4 - 67.4 g
Double shot 5 - 68.8 g

Seems it take a good few shots to get consistency in output.
Volume of water seems to drop the hotter it gets.

Never really bothered to do a full investigation as i don't use the pre set shot volume.

I have found the unit has inconsistencies on a regular basis - and some beans have been worse than others. I (by pure guess) blame the mediocre grinder more than anything else.

A fixed size basket with a fixed size grind should provide at least a consistent amount in basket if your tamp and dose and fairly consistent after all.

Thermoblocks are well known for taking 20+ mins to really equilibrate temp - have superior ones to SAGE in work and yet sage claim something ours never can (30 second warm up).

Face it - the BE is set to deliver over volume espresso (its a lungo really) if you use the defaults - if you use the unit outside the default you'll find issues.

Know your pain, especially when you cannot find an exact cause - my advice just live with it haha.

breeno · 22-01-2021 3:22pm

I've had a Delonghi Bean to Cup for the last year or so and contemplating moving to a Barista Express.

Anybody here that already made the switch and recommend it? It's probably more hands on than I'm used to but I'm finding the B2C a bit imprecise lately and the cup sizes are non standard which leaves me wondering how much of an improvement I'd see if I made the jump. I'm getting decent results currently but could presumably do a lot better.

carq · 25-01-2021 10:22am

FileNotFound wrote: »

Never really bothered to do a full investigation as i don't use the pre set shot volume.

I have found the unit has inconsistencies on a regular basis - and some beans have been worse than others. I (by pure guess) blame the mediocre grinder more than anything else.

A fixed size basket with a fixed size grind should provide at least a consistent amount in basket if your tamp and dose and fairly consistent after all.

Thermoblocks are well known for taking 20+ mins to really equilibrate temp - have superior ones to SAGE in work and yet sage claim something ours never can (30 second warm up).

Face it - the BE is set to deliver over volume espresso (its a lungo really) if you use the defaults - if you use the unit outside the default you'll find issues.

Know your pain, especially when you cannot find an exact cause - my advice just live with it haha.

Yeah I've moved away from the default volume.
But even the custom volume seems to be variable when it is set.

DaveyDave · 25-01-2021 3:42pm

Just before I record my video to send to Sage, I dropped the dial to 1, cleared any remaining grind and measured 19g. 28 seconds, 68.5g out.

Time wise it seemed good but the smell alone put me off tasting it and an Americano still has a bitterness to it. The goal was always to get a reasonable shot time, but I don't know where to go from here if the taste is still off?

mad m · 26-01-2021 8:51am

Just on Bell lane Kg house espresso blend with my Barista pro. Just did a shot, 18g in 52g out at 25 seconds. Internal burr is at 7, grinder at 6. Will go down to 5 and see.

Above OP down at 1 and still a fast shot has to be something up alright

breeno · 26-01-2021 10:08am

mad m wrote: »

Just on Bell lane Kg house espresso blend with my Barista pro. Just did a shot, 18g in 52g out at 25 seconds. Internal burr is at 7, grinder at 6. Will go down to 5 and see.

Above OP down at 1 and still a fast shot has to be something up alright

Out of interest is 18g in to 52g out not a bit big? I've seen people talking about 1:2 ratios which would be 18g:36g. It's all personal preference of course just wondering what way is typical. I believe the preset buttons are 30g and 60g which seems too big.

Hoping to pick up the machine soon and doing a bit of homework

FileNotFound · 26-01-2021 1:21pm

mad m wrote: »

Just on Bell lane Kg house espresso blend with my Barista pro. Just did a shot, 18g in 52g out at 25 seconds. Internal burr is at 7, grinder at 6. Will go down to 5 and see.

Above OP down at 1 and still a fast shot has to be something up alright

Just finished 1kg of this on my own Be.

Was using internal burr 6 and grind 7 or 8 (changed over the life of bag). Found I had to use a heavy tamp.

I was getting between 18.3 & 18.6 g in the basket and getting 36-37g out in 27-30 seconds.

Seemed to taste a little more to my flavour if I got closer to the 30 seconds.

DaveyDave · 26-01-2021 3:08pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Just before I record my video to send to Sage, I dropped the dial to 1, cleared any remaining grind and measured 19g. 28 seconds, 68.5g out.

Time wise it seemed good but the smell alone put me off tasting it and an Americano still has a bitterness to it. The goal was always to get a reasonable shot time, but I don't know where to go from here if the taste is still off?

Ok so it seems it takes more than one double shot grind to clear the older grind, today's coffee gave me 19g, 46 seconds, 63g.

I've dialled it back to 2 and cleared two double shots of grind for the next cup.

I think I'll start drinking tea...

FileNotFound · 26-01-2021 3:31pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Ok so it seems it takes more than one double shot grind to clear the older grind, today's coffee gave me 19g, 46 seconds, 63g.

I've dialled it back to 2 and cleared two double shots of grind for the next cup.

I think I'll start drinking tea...

I have my internal set at like 6 which gives me grind setting of 7-8 for most.

If your down on 1 and 1 and not choking the BE to death surely its just your grinder knackered.

Are you using the preset dispense? If so its set to give approx 60-70ml. To get actual expresso you should hit the button after you get to 25-30 seconds. The BE is not preset for espresso persay..

Hope this helps

FileNotFound · 26-01-2021 3:34pm

breeno wrote: »

Out of interest is 18g in to 52g out not a bit big? I've seen people talking about 1:2 ratios which would be 18g:36g. It's all personal preference of course just wondering what way is typical. I believe the preset buttons are 30g and 60g which seems too big.

Hoping to pick up the machine soon and doing a bit of homework

You just pull a shot manually or if you find beans you like - set the preset as you like,

The BE seems set for lungos if you use the guage and presets.

Just ignore the guage and focus on time and 2:1 for your espresso. The grinder limitations are the main limit i find.

mad m · 26-01-2021 7:33pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

Just finished 1kg of this on my own Be.

Was using internal burr 6 and grind 7 or 8 (changed over the life of bag). Found I had to use a heavy tamp.

I was getting between 18.3 & 18.6 g in the basket and getting 36-37g out in 27-30 seconds.

Seemed to taste a little more to my flavour if I got closer to the 30 seconds.

I dialled down to 5 later that day. 18g in , hit automatic instead of manual. Got 34g out at 28 seconds.

Fall_Guy · 27-01-2021 7:41am

DaveyDave wrote: »

Ok so it seems it takes more than one double shot grind to clear the older grind, today's coffee gave me 19g, 46 seconds, 63g.

I've dialled it back to 2 and cleared two double shots of grind for the next cup.

I think I'll start drinking tea...

Are you measuring the shot as you pull it? I'm guessing if you stopped that shot when you had around a 35-40g (1:2 ratio) yield you would have been in and around 30 seconds. Again, it's not that the time itself is critical, more that it is a reference point.

Do you have a preference for very high volume shots or are you just letting the machine run until it stops each time?

Imp Lannister · 27-01-2021 7:33pm

First post for me in here folks, and the first thing I want to say, is thanks to everyone for the content of this thread. Bought a Barrista Express in October and was tearing out what little hair I have left, until I found this thread. A lot of really great advice and experience stopped me from going into a complete meltdown.

Was speaking with the shop where I bought the machine today, and they wanted to let me know that Sage are currently offering 1:1 Zoom sessions, about half an hour long, to help get the most from the machine. I'm guessing many of you are far more competent than me with the machines but it might be of interest to some. Particularly if you're a relative novice such as myself!

Thanks again everyone

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/home/events-and-demos.html

DaveyDave · 27-01-2021 8:03pm

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Are you measuring the shot as you pull it? I'm guessing if you stopped that shot when you had around a 35-40g (1:2 ratio) yield you would have been in and around 30 seconds. Again, it's not that the time itself is critical, more that it is a reference point.

Do you have a preference for very high volume shots or are you just letting the machine run until it stops each time?

No preference I'm just letting the machine run. I wasn't sure if manually stopping at a desired time and ratio would be ok. That's good to know though.

carq · 28-01-2021 12:53pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

No preference I'm just letting the machine run. I wasn't sure if manually stopping at a desired time and ratio would be ok. That's good to know though.

Yes if you wanted a perfect 1:2 ratio (18:36) you can press the program button and then the double cup button.
When the output is around the 30g mark press the button again and the drips should take you up to 36g.

The time that takes would be interesting - may indicate it is too fast or too slow and could indicate a change to the grind required.

Also whether the 36 g shot tasted better than the automatic dose with higher yield is another story

DaveyDave · 29-01-2021 2:55am

carq wrote: »

Yes if you wanted a perfect 1:2 ratio (18:36) you can press the program button and then the double cup button.
When the output is around the 30g mark press the button again and the drips should take you up to 36g.

The time that takes would be interesting - may indicate it is too fast or too slow and could indicate a change to the grind required.

Also whether the 36 g shot tasted better than the automatic dose with higher yield is another story

Stopped manually, 19g, 26 seconds, 57.5g. That's on dial 2.

Apart from setting the dial to 1 is there anything else I can do? If I stop at 38g it will probably be 20 seconds or so, that probably wouldn't taste good?

FileNotFound · 29-01-2021 4:45am

DaveyDave wrote: »

Stopped manually, 19g, 26 seconds, 57.5g. That's on dial 2.

Apart from setting the dial to 1 is there anything else I can do? If I stop at 38g it will probably be 20 seconds or so, that probably wouldn't taste good?

Internal burr change? It's the one in/under the hopper. Mines at 6 others at 5.

How heavy is your tamp. Dependant on the coffee I go light to plenty of weight on.

I find the exact weight in does not work for the BE, I dose excess tamp and trim.

I find my dose is +/- 0.2g which given the post stop drip on BE means i just aim for approx 2:1 in 25-30 secs unless coffee specifies otherwise.

I use double shot (single wall) using the preset 2 cup dispense and just hitting stop once I get to just over 34 g - which will end as 36.4g or so shot.

DaveyDave · 29-01-2021 4:52am

FileNotFound wrote: »

Internal burr change? It's the one in/under the hopper. Mines at 6 others at 5.

How heavy is your tamp. Dependant on the coffee I go light to plenty of weight on.

I find the exact weight in does not work for the BE, I dose excess tamp and trim.

I find my dose is +/- 0.2g which given the post stop drip on BE means i just aim for approx 2:1 in 25-30 secs unless coffee specifies otherwise.

I use double shot (single wall) using the preset 2 cup dispense and just hitting stop once I get to just over 34 g - which will end as 36.4g or so shot.

Internal burr is on 1, I've been in contact with Sage now for two months trying to resolve my issue with getting a good shot. Can't seem to grind fine enough to get a shot near 25-30 seconds with a 1:2-1:2.5 ratio. Manual will have to do as the preset shot is way off.

Shake the portafilter while grinding to even out the coffee, nice solid tamp, fresh beans, full disassemble and clean of internal burr etc. I'm doing everything I should to at least get a half decent shot, but I'm not!

Whatever grind setting I use I always end up with 60-68g. I couldn't possibly get 38g within 25-30 seconds.

FileNotFound · 29-01-2021 5:00am

DaveyDave wrote: »

Internal burr is on 1, I've been in contact with Sage now for two months trying to resolve my issue with getting a good shot. Can't seem to grind fine enough to get a shot near 25-30 seconds with a 1:2-1:2.5 ratio. Manual will have to do as the preset shot is way off.

Shake the portafilter while grinding to even out the coffee, nice solid tamp, fresh beans, full disassemble and clean of internal burr etc. I'm doing everything I should to at least get a half decent shot, but I'm not!

Whatever grind setting I use I always end up with 60-68g. I couldn't possibly get 38g within 25-30 seconds.

Broken so, who did you buy off?

Retrun to seller and let them sort the issue maybe?

Can send a vid I did for a mate for reference just to be sure your not gone mad. It's a rough one done in a rush

FileNotFound · 29-01-2021 3:36pm

Imp Lannister wrote: »

First post for me in here folks, and the first thing I want to say, is thanks to everyone for the content of this thread. Bought a Barrista Express in October and was tearing out what little hair I have left, until I found this thread. A lot of really great advice and experience stopped me from going into a complete meltdown.

Was speaking with the shop where I bought the machine today, and they wanted to let me know that Sage are currently offering 1:1 Zoom sessions, about half an hour long, to help get the most from the machine. I'm guessing many of you are far more competent than me with the machines but it might be of interest to some. Particularly if you're a relative novice such as myself!

Thanks again everyone

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/home/events-and-demos.html

All amateur learn as we go. Plenty of good advice from the people on here.

Feel free to ask anything direct or otherwise.

DaveyDave · 29-01-2021 9:47pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

Broken so, who did you buy off?

Retrun to seller and let them sort the issue maybe?

Can send a vid I did for a mate for reference just to be sure your not gone mad. It's a rough one done in a rush

Bought it from Art of Coffee. Yeah if you don't mind sending on a video. I'll be recording one of my own later for reference.

The manual says the 2 cup will give 60ml, am I better off reprogramming this to 38ml? I know time is only a guide but if it's under say 25 seconds but 1:2 ratio would it taste good?

FileNotFound · 29-01-2021 11:19pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

Bought it from Art of Coffee. Yeah if you don't mind sending on a video. I'll be recording one of my own later for reference.

The manual says the 2 cup will give 60ml, am I better off reprogramming this to 38ml? I know time is only a guide but if it's under say 25 seconds but 1:2 ratio would it taste good?

Yes the manual is right the Be works on a volume flow meter so needs to be stopped manually to get actual espresso. Just redid a vid couldn't locate the last. Pretty blunt as on phone. Hope it's clear.

https://youtu.be/1Wv40SIbMR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wv40SIbMR4

That link will get you to it. Not sure how to add a video properly here.

Seems my attempt to add it worked.

Klopp · 30-01-2021 12:24am

The last few weeks I stopped adjusting the grind setting and trying to get the needle in the recommended Espresso range. This week I have used 18g and I am getting 42g in 31 seconds and the pressure is not in the recommend Espresso range, the needle is way over at 1. Is anyone else ignoring the recommended range now or is it just me?

FileNotFound · 30-01-2021 12:29am

Klopp wrote: »

The last few weeks I stopped adjusting the grind setting and trying to get the needle in the recommended Espresso range. This week I have used 18g and I am getting 42g in 31 seconds and the pressure is not in the recommend Espresso range, the needle is way over at 1. Is anyone else ignoring the recommended range now or is it just me?

Watch the vid I posted above - funny you bring it up just after I add it.

Previous post

Mind you when stuck I have used frank & honest beans before and if you hit centre of espresso range it tastes same as their machines.

DaveyDave · 30-01-2021 3:13am

Here's my attempt. Haven't changed any settings so I didn't weigh the dose and of course it decides to spit out a bit more than usual and also seems to extract a touch slower than usual. Of course the clean me light comes on for the video!

Drinking it as an americano seemed decent but a sourness is starting to come out. There's obviously room to fine tune but certainly a step in the right direction. My only concern is having to be so low in the grind setup with internal burr on 1 and dial on 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4aPBOHLFw

FileNotFound · 30-01-2021 3:56am

DaveyDave wrote: »

Here's my attempt. Haven't changed any settings so I didn't weigh the dose and of course it decides to spit out a bit more than usual and also seems to extract a touch slower than usual. Of course the clean me light comes on for the video!

Drinking it as an americano seemed decent but a sourness is starting to come out. There's obviously room to fine tune but certainly a step in the right direction. My only concern is having to be so low in the grind setup with internal burr on 1 and dial on 2.

Doesn't look too bad. Basket when tamped and precision trimmer used will usually have pretty consistent weight for any beans.

Definitley should not have to go down so low on the grind. Next time hopper is empty throw up a pic of the internal birr. Can do the same just to ensure there is no confusion.

Maybe overdose and trim with the sage tool - it garauntees the gap between shower screen and Puck. Some say it helps improve pre infusion and reduce channelling.

At least it should be drinkable.

fits · 30-01-2021 8:04am

Klopp wrote: »

The last few weeks I stopped adjusting the grind setting and trying to get the needle in the recommended Espresso range. This week I have used 18g and I am getting 42g in 31 seconds and the pressure is not in the recommend Espresso range, the needle is way over at 1. Is anyone else ignoring the recommended range now or is it just me?

I much prefer the shots pulled when it’s in recommended range. I think it makes a big difference with the coffee we are drinking at the moment.

Sage Barista Express

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