BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

punisher5112 · 25-01-2021 9:05pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Dept of the Transport maintain a VERY detailed database of such frivolities.....It is bang up to date and barely missed Covid.

https://www.trafficsigns.ie/current-traffic-signs-manual

Bus Stop and associated Bus markings are in Chapter 7,with this little gem nestling on page 58.

Here's a taster of the OFFICIAL requirements for Bus Stop Layouts.

It is perhaps a matter for the Minister for Transport to ascertain whether the relevant Departmental Officials have actually read their own publications,as current indications would suggest they have not.

Exactly this, none of what is written is actually in place.

At best we have a box or bus stop cage painted but it is usually in most cases the size of the bus or actually much less.... Vehicle then park in it, up to it or on the lines, new cycle poles are now an absolute terror, I've on numerous occasions had to go over them to get in safely but no matter what it's a challenge to ever get the rear door into a stop safely.

I'm actually shocked I haven't had a faller yet.....

AlekSmart · 25-01-2021 9:06pm

bk wrote: »

Ughh... I did just find some disappointing info about the Next Generation Ticketing project. From the tender docs:

Still so long to come. They should have started this years ago!

The,now annual,Fares Determination process announced early each December,was delayed in 2020 to allow for final issues to be dealt with prior to an announcement in March 2020 as to the Time Based Fare introduction.

From what I gather,the amount was €2.60 for the 90 minute LEAP fare,with €3.30 remaining as the (Bus Journey Only) cash fare.

Sadly,the Authority were proposing to retain a "Short Hop" fare of c.€2,which IMO is a major error.

Even more sadly,along came Covid-19...and we now await further developments......

punisher5112 · 25-01-2021 9:07pm

The machine at the door should be fitted where cash goes and everyone ferried through so they must scan by the driver but have no interaction other then that....

AlekSmart · 25-01-2021 9:13pm

Peregrine wrote: »

Yeah, it was mentioned in another thread recently. A Q3 2022 contract award date means it'll be 2023 by the time it's implemented. The good news is that the contract is only for account based ticketing and the 90 min fare isn't part of that project so could still be on track to be introduced this year. While the lack of contactless card and phone payments before 2023 is disappointing, the 90 min fare is probably more important to the initial success of BusConnects.

I think a 90min fare can be implemented with the current old testament equipment and no ABT. The only impediment that I can see is reluctance to reduce farebox revenue at this time and coming to an agreement with Irish Rail about sharing the farebox revenue this year. Given that the government are pretty much guaranteeing to make up the shortfall this year anyway, I don't think Irish Rail will care much.

The 90 Minute fare is eminently do-able,and as you say,would free up the current Ticket Equipment to allow faster operation.

It is worth bearing in mind that since January 1st,Bus Atha Cliath's Direct Award Contract has been amended to become a Gross Cost Contract a lá Go Ahead Ireland's,with the Authority now assuming responsibility for all matters revenue.

Essentially since January 1st,it is only Iarnrod Eireann that has to be gotten onside in Farebox allocation terms....

We're nearly there !!!

Peregrine · 25-01-2021 9:32pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The 90 Minute fare is eminently do-able,and as you say,would free up the current Ticket Equipment to allow faster operation.

It is worth bearing in mind that since January 1st,Bus Atha Cliath's Direct Award Contract has been amended to become a Gross Cost Contract a lá Go Ahead Ireland's,with the Authority now assuming responsibility for all matters revenue.

Essentially since January 1st,it is only Iarnrod Eireann that has to be gotten onside in Farebox allocation terms....

We're nearly there !!!

Yep and Iarnród Éireann switches over to gross cost on January 1st 2022 too.

punisher5112 · 25-01-2021 9:46pm

Fare box are as empty as my bank account....

GT89 · 25-01-2021 9:54pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The 90 Minute fare is eminently do-able,and as you say,would free up the current Ticket Equipment to allow faster operation.

It is worth bearing in mind that since January 1st,Bus Atha Cliath's Direct Award Contract has been amended to become a Gross Cost Contract a lá Go Ahead Ireland's,with the Authority now assuming responsibility for all matters revenue.

Essentially since January 1st,it is only Iarnrod Eireann that has to be gotten onside in Farebox allocation terms....

We're nearly there !!!

I thought EU regulations meant that the gross cost model had to be tendered and couldn't be directly awarded to one operator.

Thelonious Monk · 26-01-2021 10:06am

The payment system for buses is pretty shocking in this day and age in the so called tech hub of Europe that houses all the blue chip headquarters.
You can't pay with a bank card or phone, it has been in place for years in other countries.
I haven't been keeping tabs on bus connects that much because I try and avoid using buses because I never know how much they cost and never have cash on me but they seem to have been talking about it for years and reading this thread they haven't even put planning permission through which I'm sure will be a nightmare with NIMBYism and anti-progression counsellors and TDs.
Get on move on ffs!

AngryLips · 26-01-2021 10:21am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The payment system for buses is pretty shocking in this day and age in the so called tech hub of Europe that houses all the blue chip headquarters.
You can't pay with a bank card or phone, it has been in place for years in other countries.
I haven't been keeping tabs on bus connects that much because I try and avoid using buses because I never know how much they cost and never have cash on me but they seem to have been talking about it for years and reading this thread they haven't even put planning permission through which I'm sure will be a nightmare with NIMBYism and anti-progression counsellors and TDs.
Get on move on ffs!

Someone who is seemingly unaware of capping and who couldn't be bothered with owning a leap card complains about the lack of even more advance ticketing solutions :rolleyes:

Thelonious Monk · 26-01-2021 10:30am

I do own a leap card but as far as I know you can't top it up online or at bus stops, so I usually just take the longer walk to the dart. Why don't we have a flat fare like they have in London?

AlmightyCushion · 26-01-2021 10:39am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I do own a leap card but as far as I know you can't top it up online or at bus stops, so I usually just take the longer walk to the dart. Why don't we have a flat fare like they have in London?

If you have an Android phone with NFC you can top it up using the app. Very handy.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2021 10:45am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I do own a leap card but as far as I know you can't top it up online or at bus stops, so I usually just take the longer walk to the dart. Why don't we have a flat fare like they have in London?

You can top up online, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to actually run out of funds, the online bank top up is live years now, it tops up automatic....
Bizarre reason not to use a bus.

You can even check your balance online or app and as above NFC phone and top up on the go and if it's the case you have no internet you can use the free WiFi on the bus.

Physicskid9 · 26-01-2021 10:47am

It sounds fantastic. Are they going to address the anti social behaviour though? I'd be much more inclined to use public transport if there wasn't so much riff raff on the busses.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2021 10:50am

Physicskid9 wrote: »

It sounds fantastic. Are they going to address the anti social behaviour though? I'd be much more inclined to use public transport if there wasn't so much riff raff on the busses.

That's exactly it, there is no want or push to do anything....

Even with lockdown gang's in certain areas and tons trying to use the bus or tram or dart....

AngryLips · 26-01-2021 10:53am

Physicskid9 wrote: »

It sounds fantastic. Are they going to address the anti social behaviour though? I'd be much more inclined to use public transport if there wasn't so much riff raff on the busses.

I'm just a regular Dublin Bus user, so maybe I'm not representative of the average person ...but what antisocial behaviour?

punisher5112 · 26-01-2021 10:55am

AngryLips wrote: »

I'm just a regular Dublin Bus user, so maybe I'm not representative of the average person ...but what antisocial behaviour?

Certain routes upstairs would be a no go and usually taken over.....

Some clean routes too of course where rarely any issues.

Physicskid9 · 26-01-2021 10:55am

AngryLips wrote: »

I'm just a regular Dublin Bus user, so maybe I'm not representative of the average person ...but what antisocial behaviour?

Are you having a laugh?

AngryLips · 26-01-2021 10:59am

Physicskid9 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

How would you know if you're not inclined to use the bus?

markpb · 26-01-2021 11:01am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Fare box are as empty as my bank account....

The actual money in the farebox is more or less irrelevant. What matters is that, come January 2022, the NTA will be in charge of all the ticketing and all the revenue for all of public transport. Leap has been plagued for almost 20 years with bickering between the operators and the regulator. Fighting about which company logo appears on the card, fighting to retain their existing byzantine ticket and fare structure, battling with the piece of crap ticket machines that DB use to make it support all that complexity. Leap isn't traditional integrated ticketing because the NTA focused on building a single card that could encapsulate all that complexity instead of simplifying the underlying fare structure.

Moving to gross collection should give NTA the ability to wipe the slate clean and build a much simpler system.

Physicskid9 · 26-01-2021 11:01am

AngryLips wrote: »

How would you know if you're not inclined to use the bus?

Because I read the news, hear stories. Is any wonder I don't use the bus. Sharing a seat with a heroin user in the process of shooting up.

AngryLips · 26-01-2021 11:15am

Physicskid9 wrote: »

Because I read the news, hear stories. Is any wonder I don't use the bus. Sharing a seat with a heroin user in the process of shooting up.

You see, that is not typical of the experience for the majority of bus users and that's why it gets reported in the news.

bk · 26-01-2021 11:16am

Physicskid9 wrote: »

Because I read the news, hear stories. Is any wonder I don't use the bus. Sharing a seat with a heroin user in the process of shooting up.

Frankly you should listen to the news less so. It can often be full of sensationalist bull****.

In the 20 years of living on the north side of Dublin and using buses, I've not seen a single incident of anti-social behaviour. I'm not saying it never happens, but they are pretty rare incidents. Most folks on buses are just workers and students looking to get home like you.

bk · 26-01-2021 11:23am

That is great news to DB has switched to a gross cost contract and that Irish Rail will do so next year.

It will finally give the NTA full control over fares and allow for proper integration, etc. Makes sense too, at the moment all the operators are almost completely being funded by the NTA anyway giving Covid and the fare box.

I hope we don't have to wait until next year for the 90 minute ticket.

€2.60 seems a bit expensive for the 90 minute ticket. 2.50 or even 2.40 would have been more reasonable IMO. 2.60 is a big jump from my current 2.25 fare. And yes scrap the short €2 fare.

goingnowhere · 26-01-2021 11:33am

Finally we are in the late 20th century, breaking from the fare structure which originated in the Edwardian era

Just remember with the exception of capping, nothing more than a piece of paper with a date/time stamp is needed to make this all work...

cgcsb · 26-01-2021 11:34am

There was talk of a short hop fare and a standard 90 minute fare. Not sure if that's still happening. The 90min would use the validator on the right and the short hop would mean you have to ask the driver for it.

The 90 min fare would be the vast majority of fares. My view is that the 2 fares should be €1.50 and €2 respectively. However €2.35 for the 90 minute and not yet determined for the short hop was how it was left, last I heard. That it will take another year to achieve doesn't surprise me per say, just frustrating.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2021 11:39am

markpb wrote: »

The actual money in the farebox is more or less irrelevant. What matters is that, come January 2022, the NTA will be in charge of all the ticketing and all the revenue for all of public transport. Leap has been plagued for almost 20 years with bickering between the operators and the regulator. Fighting about which company logo appears on the card, fighting to retain their existing byzantine ticket and fare structure, battling with the piece of crap ticket machines that DB use to make it support all that complexity. Leap isn't traditional integrated ticketing because the NTA focused on building a single card that could encapsulate all that complexity instead of simplifying the underlying fare structure.

Moving to gross collection should give NTA the ability to wipe the slate clean and build a much simpler system.

Wth are you highlight my comment for this, I'm in the job so know....

You obviously didn't get what I said.

There is near nothing going into the fare box so it makes no odds to db.

goingnowhere · 26-01-2021 11:40am

If €2.60 was for all modes in 90 minutes in a reasonable radius the price is comparable to that in most cities, same is €2.80 in Berlin.

Paddico · 26-01-2021 2:40pm

Physicskid9 wrote: »

It sounds fantastic. Are they going to address the anti social behaviour though? I'd be much more inclined to use public transport if there wasn't so much riff raff on the busses.

Its fine for 99% of people for a work commute.
Get off your high horse and just use it.

Tomrota · 26-01-2021 2:53pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

If €2.60 was for all modes in 90 minutes in a reasonable radius the price is comparable to that in most cities, same is €2.80 in Berlin.

What radius do you deem reasonable? A lot of the bus network extends 30+km outside the city centre due to the city’s heavy reliance on commuter towns as the housing crisis continues to worsen. Maybe the 90 minute fare should just apply to all modes of public transport in the commuter belt.

GT89 · 26-01-2021 7:00pm

Tomrota wrote: »

What radius do you deem reasonable? A lot of the bus network extends 30+km outside the city centre due to the city’s heavy reliance on commuter towns as the housing crisis continues to worsen. Maybe the 90 minute fare should just apply to all modes of public transport in the commuter belt.

I'd imagine it would apply to Dublin City bus services and the short hop zone

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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