What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Hurrache · 26-01-2021 10:30AM

average_runner wrote: »

Basically AZ has looked after their own people first. I am sure Boris was well aware of this also.

EU needs to look at it self and figure out why we are so slow in certifying these vaccines compare to the rest of the world.

Sure, why doesn't every run rush to certify everything anyway, even if they've questions for which they're waiting for more data and explanations for.

average_runner · 26-01-2021 10:32AM

Hurrache wrote: »

Sure, why doesn't every run rush to certify everything anyway, even if they've questions for which they're waiting for more data and explanations for.

And why didn't other countries need this extra data?

Are we saying the scientist in other countries are not as good?

HalfAndHalf · 26-01-2021 10:33AM

Hurrache wrote: »

Erm, they had ordered and funded the vaccines, hence the problem. They weren't trying to negotiate a better deal. You don't seem to understand the story at all.

Erm, keep hearing this ‘EU funded the AZ vaccine’....

This isn’t exactly how it sounds and the EU weeent the only ones, the U.K. and US also ‘funded’ them, the US to the tune of a billion dollars...

This ‘funding’ was just an up front payment for product, it wasn’t a charitable donation!

MrMusician18 · 26-01-2021 10:33AM

McGiver wrote: »

What???
9M EU citizens were vaccinated as of yesterday. Some countries' data are few days old so in reality it could be up to 9.5M.

The EMA is approving products for one of the largest and very well regulated markets in the world. There is nothing to speed up. The approval process may be a bit slower than in the US due to more rigorous and careful approach. But that's it.

The reality is - AZ applied to EMA late after the UK emergency approval, the data was dodgy, they were asked to provide more data, however the EMA starting a rolling review and still expecting more data from AZ because what they provided so far is insufficient.
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-first-rolling-review-covid-19-vaccine-eu
And on top they are potentially breaching contract with the EU by selling EU pre ordered stuff elsewhere.

But sure it's the EU's fault that they diversified the vaccine portfolio as much as possible, that Sanofi got issues in the clinical trial and that AZ presented crap data to EMA late and that the UK approved their own vaccine without proper scrutiny.

Too many euro bashing trolls and eurosceptic drivel on this thread. Daily Express quoted, really??? Should be tagged by mods as fake news.

The EMA is not any more careful than the FDA tbf

Hurrache · 26-01-2021 10:36AM

average_runner wrote: »

And why didn't other countries need this extra data?

Are we saying the scientist in other countries are not as good?

They've made a series of blunders when dealing with the US, who have yet to authorises its use, and in a story in the Ney York Times from the end of December, have said

Yet independent scientists and industry analysts have criticized AstraZeneca and Oxford for not being sufficiently transparent about their early results, the design of their studies and safety issues. Most critically, it is not clear how well the vaccine works.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 26-01-2021 10:37AM

average_runner wrote: »

And why didn't other countries need this extra data?

Are we saying the scientist in other countries are not as good?

Some countries are treating this as an emergency and granting emergency use authorisation. It's basically ask for less data and approve early.

It's an interesting question if we should have done this?

Hurrache · 26-01-2021 10:37AM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Erm, keep hearing this ‘EU funded the AZ vaccine’....

This isn’t exactly how it sounds and the EU weeent the only ones, the U.K. and US also ‘funded’ them, the US to the tune of a billion dollars...

This ‘funding’ was just an up front payment for product, it wasn’t a charitable donation!

It was clarified on a number of times in this thread that they part funded it, so nothing is being hidden or muddied. And the funding wasn't just an upfront payment, it was paid upfront to fund the R&D.

Mitch Connor · 26-01-2021 10:40AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Some countries are treating this as an emergency and granting emergency use authorisation. It's basically ask for less data and approve early.

It's an interesting question if we should have done this?

Ireland on its own? Probably not, imo. I don't think Ireland should have started a european rush on the vaccine by going out on our own.

average_runner · 26-01-2021 10:41AM

Hurrache wrote: »

They've made a series of blunders when dealing with the US, who have yet to authorises its use, and in a story in the Ney York Times from the end of December, have said

Yet the USA supply will not be affected!!!
Something is way off here. EU are the bosses, bucks stop here and they need to amend the situation asap. By whatever means.
AZ might be at fault, but that is of no use to us, EU is paid big bucks for this and should have a backup plan

If this was the HSE, people would be calling for their heads here

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:41AM

...Ghost... wrote: »

My initial thoughts when I heard about the shortage was that AZ were supplying the UK with the batches destined for the EU.

edited to add: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-astrazeneca-to-cut-covid-19-vaccine-delivery-to-eu-by-60-reports-12195923

wow just goes to show the morality of these pharmaceutical companies. but they are contractually bound to comply with the agreement with the EU

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:42AM

average_runner wrote: »

Yet the USA supply will not be affected!!!
Something is way off here. EU are the bosses, bucks stop here and they need to amend the situation asap. By whatever means.
AZ might be at fault, but that is of no use to us, EU is paid big bucks for this and should have a backup plan

EU can sue

average_runner · 26-01-2021 10:43AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ireland on its own? Probably not, imo. I don't think Ireland should have started a european rush on the vaccine by going out on our own.

Other EU countries did. Denmark bought extra pfzier drug off the EU as other countries didnt take their full supply.

Germany is sourcing their own also on top of what the EU is giving them!!

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:43AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ireland on its own? Probably not, imo. I don't think Ireland should have started a european rush on the vaccine by going out on our own.

did Ireland go out on its own?

average_runner · 26-01-2021 10:43AM

BredonWimsey wrote: »

EU can sue

That is alot of good to Ireland

Hurrache · 26-01-2021 10:45AM

average_runner wrote: »

Yet the USA supply will not be affected!!!
Something is way off here.

Yeah, although it might be a bit early to say if their supply will be affected as it hasn't yet been cleared for use there, which is why the EU were looking for clarification as to the reality of what happened with AZ in anticipation of other countries coming online and expecting the number of vaccines they ordered.

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:47AM

average_runner wrote: »

That is alot of good to Ireland

yeah correct but thats the option if AZ are being immoral and selling it to the highest bidder

BonnieSituation · 26-01-2021 10:48AM

Dressoutlet wrote: »

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.
The pioneering vaccine has yet to be given the green light by the EU, despite having been given the thumbs-up in the UK, as efforts are stepped up to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure. However, Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency
“The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.

“It is hard to see how any democratic Government should allow itself to be overruled by an unelected body like the Commission especially when the health of its citizens is involved in a pandemic.”

The reasons for the EU’s stance are unclear - but given the strained nature of relations between the bloc and the UK in the light of Brexit it seems reasonable to think it may be a factor.

The trick is to stop reading after you see that it's Ray Bassett speaking. The guy's a kook.

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:49AM

it could also be because they want to monitor how well the vaccine is working - delay tactics #notaconspiracy #justsaying

mick087 · 26-01-2021 10:50AM

average_runner wrote: »

Yet the USA supply will not be affected!!!
Something is way off here. EU are the bosses, bucks stop here and they need to amend the situation asap. By whatever means.
AZ might be at fault, but that is of no use to us, EU is paid big bucks for this and should have a backup plan

If this was the HSE, people would be calling for their heads here

This is not the way the EU works.
No one from the EU will be accountable or to blame.

Like you say if this was a HSE issue heads would roll ministers would resign.

The roll out of the vaccine is a total mess we are being left behind and the poorest will suffer the most.

HalfAndHalf · 26-01-2021 10:52AM

McGiver wrote: »

What???
9M EU citizens were vaccinated as of yesterday. Some countries' data are few days old so in reality it could be up to 9.5M.

The EMA is approving products for one of the largest and very well regulated markets in the world. There is nothing to speed up. The approval process may be a bit slower than in the US due to more rigorous and careful approach. But that's it.

The reality is - AZ applied to EMA late after the UK emergency approval, the data was dodgy, they were asked to provide more data, however the EMA starting a rolling review and still expecting more data from AZ because what they provided so far is insufficient.
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-first-rolling-review-covid-19-vaccine-eu
And on top they are potentially breaching contract with the EU by selling EU pre ordered stuff elsewhere.

But sure it's the EU's fault that they diversified the vaccine portfolio as much as possible, that Sanofi got issues in the clinical trial and that AZ presented crap data to EMA late and that the UK approved their own vaccine without proper scrutiny.

Too many euro bashing trolls and eurosceptic drivel on this thread. Daily Express quoted, really??? Should be tagged by mods as fake news.

Wow!! If people form their own opinion of how the EU/EMA are handling the vaccine procedures, and those differ to yours then it’s fake news and they’re trolls! You must be great craic down the pub for some casual chat!!

If everyone on boards had the same opinion each thread would be started, have 100 ‘I concur’ responses and that would be that.

I’m not saying I’m right, or you’re right, but seriously, calm it down a bit with the fake news and trolls name calling, it’s all a bit Donald!!

HalfAndHalf · 26-01-2021 10:53AM

Hurrache wrote: »

It was clarified on a number of times in this thread that they part funded it, so nothing is being hidden or muddied. And the funding wasn't just an upfront payment, it was paid upfront to fund the R&D.

Have a link to the article? All the articles I’ve read this morning state funding was an upfront payment to speed up production....pretty sure production comes after development.

mick087 · 26-01-2021 10:55AM

BredonWimsey wrote: »

yeah correct but thats the option if AZ are being immoral and selling it to the highest bidder

Yes totally immoral than good health treatment can be brought.
I wonder how many EU commissioners have private health care polices?

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 10:56AM

mick087 wrote: »

Yes totally immoral than good health treatment can be brought.
I wonder how many EU commissioners have private health care polices?

oh lord it is immoral to sell a vaccine that was allocated for delivery to someone else - immoral and illegal.

its not about good health care - its about their duty of care and their breach of contract.

noodler · 26-01-2021 10:59AM

Hurrache wrote: »

It was clarified on a number of times in this thread that they part funded it, so nothing is being hidden or muddied. And the funding wasn't just an upfront payment, it was paid upfront to fund the R&D.

Ah no it was. It was upfront, lower unit costs as a result.

fly_agaric · 26-01-2021 11:04AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Some countries are treating this as an emergency and granting emergency use authorisation. It's basically ask for less data and approve early.

It's an interesting question if we should have done this?

I can see arguments both ways.

There are strong anti-vax movements in several EU countries I believe.

Changing the process for these vaccines has a danger of providing them with ammunition.

It may be (at this point) that the "lockdowns" and fear of the virus have cut the ground from under them + reduced likelyhood they would be listened to by the public and affect takeup when moving to mass vaccination.

mick087 · 26-01-2021 11:08AM

BredonWimsey wrote: »

oh lord it is immoral to sell a vaccine that was allocated for delivery to someone else - immoral and illegal.

its not about good health care - its about their duty of care and their breach of contract.

My own personnel opinion is that it is immoral and should be illegal for vaccines to be sold for profit but that's a different subject.

Yes the bigger picture it is about health care and the duty of care our elected government and its citizens have to each other.

BredonWimsey · 26-01-2021 11:13AM

mick087 wrote: »

My own personnel opinion is that it is immoral and should be illegal for vaccines to be sold for profit but that's a different subject.

Yes the bigger picture it is about health care and the duty of care our elected government and its citizens have to each other.

i understand what you are saying and thank you - just not sure how that applies to the fact that AZ are now not supplying the EU with the vaccines they ordered?

average_runner · 26-01-2021 11:14AM

mick087 wrote: »

My own personnel opinion is that it is immoral and should be illegal for vaccines to be sold for profit but that's a different subject.

Yes the bigger picture it is about health care and the duty of care our elected government and its citizens have to each other.

How do you think these medical companies pays it dividends?

How do you think they get investment?

average_runner · 26-01-2021 11:15AM

EU threatening to block pfzier drug to the UK now. That's action i like to see

Bit cynical · 26-01-2021 11:16AM

I don't think the vast bargaining power of the EU was of much help in helping get the best deal on vaccines for the people of the EU. Yes, the sheer size of the EU helps get a low price but in this instance price isn't really the issue, it is priority delivery. What is the price of a shot of the vaccine compared to a paying someone on PUP to do nothing for a month?

The danger with getting the lowest price deal is that if anything goes wrong with supply it will be you that gets hit by it.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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