Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

jrosen · 23-01-2021 04:03PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the problem is that they know with this new variant, you can open up grand when the numbers allow but straigh away the numbers will increase at speed again.

I would agree, I also think the latest from Boris and links to higher mortality is cause for concern.

am_zarathustra · 23-01-2021 04:11PM

I will also day that if the 6th years are not brought back for a couple of months and an attempt isn't made to sit a leaving they will be woefully under prepared going into college. Bar my first year college exams every exam I sat after that was much more stressful than the LC. My course was quite high points, mid 500s and half my class couldn't handle the stress after going through a LC. I will watch with interest at the attrition rates in college this year, they are abysmal in some courses generally but grade inflation will make them worse. I'd also be calculating (whatever this means) off very little and I was lucky enough to have most of them in junior cert.

Letting kids decide their own course with no attempt to test their ability is crazy. If you didn't have a fairly effortless grasp of maths at HL you'd have been absolutely F#$ked in my course. Anyone who even got grinds in secondary ended up dropping out. Although the CAO is far from perfect, and subject choice is a fascinating variable, at least it shows a kid can retain information, process mathematical concepts and is literate if they do ok.

Also college are badly underfunded in ireland, hopefully the new ministry addresses this. Infinitite students can't enter as they aren't enough lecturers, tutors or admin staff. Labs are limited for safety. Anyone saying that has clearly never worked in tertiary education in ireland. Funding helps but it's on the assumption that a higher percentage of these students will fail.

wirelessdude01 · 23-01-2021 04:12PM

political analyst wrote: »

Why did the government not let schools stay open for the children of emergency workers and other key workers (delivery drivers, supermarket employees etc) last March? It was OK to do that in Britain - why not here?

My suggestion would be to contact your local TDs and pose the question to them.

mirrorwall14 · 23-01-2021 04:16PM

To be honest, I think the drop out rate in college is the biggest indicator that the current admissions policy based in CAO alone is crazy. It needs to be far more nuanced. Courses need to have a lot more minimum criteria than points in my opinion

The Wordress · 23-01-2021 04:17PM

I think if schools continue to remain closed, then I wouldn't mind doing 2 extra weeks into July.

Unless schools can go back in early March and the remaining months in school up to June are used for very intensive teaching and not winding down in June as would happen in a normal school year.

TTLF · 23-01-2021 04:17PM

Odd question and doesn't apply to me personally, but what are they going to do for those 6th yrs sitting the HPAT to get into medical courses? Just haven't seen it be discussed and few friends of mine are confused if it's taking place since it's supposed to in February.

jrosen · 23-01-2021 04:18PM

Id hate to have the schools stay open into the Summer, the year has just been **** enough. I dont see the value add.

The Wordress · 23-01-2021 04:21PM

jrosen wrote: »

Id hate to have the schools stay open into the Summer, the year has just been **** enough. I dont see the value add.

If schools don't get back before Easter, then my child would have missed the equivalent of half a school year at school which is too much at a young age.

I do an awful lot of work at home with her but I still can't replicate school and what she is taught there.

am_zarathustra · 23-01-2021 04:21PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

To be honest, I think the drop out rate in college is the biggest indicator that the current admissions policy based in CAO alone is crazy. It needs to be far more nuanced. Courses need to have a lot more minimum criteria than points in my opinion

I completely agree, at a bare minimum you should have to get minimum grades in related subjects. An A1 in irish is not much used to a mechanical engineer. I'd be more interested in their maths and physics grades. It's very much based on courses pushing for minimums, you see it more with chemistry and maths than any others really. It's a logical check of ability in a particular area. The CAO don't like colleges using them though and the move in colleges towards an american model of general entry has made this more difficult to actually implement. Small, discrete courses are expensive but tend to have better outcomes. Quell suprise that the former beat the latter in the end

Few years ago the points dropped massively in science in UCD, I was talking to one of the Heads of Department and he said they should have failed half the intake in first year.

jrosen · 23-01-2021 04:24PM

The Wordress wrote: »

If schools don't get back before Easter, then my child would have missed the equivalent of half a school year at school which is too much at a young age.

I do an awful lot of work at home with her but I still can't replicate school and what she is taught there.

They aren't gonna make it back in 2 weeks though, so like I said no value add. But thats just my opinion.

mirrorwall14 · 23-01-2021 04:32PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I completely agree, at a bare minimum you should have to get minimum grades in related subjects. An A1 in irish is not much used to a mechanical engineer. I'd be more interested in their maths and physics grades. It's very much based on courses pushing for minimums, you see it more with chemistry and maths than any others really. It's a logical check of ability in a particular area. The CAO don't like colleges using them though and the move in colleges towards an american model of general entry has made this more difficult to actually implement. Small, discrete courses are expensive but tend to have better outcomes. Quell suprise that the former beat the latter in the end

Few years ago the points dropped massively in science in UCD, I was talking to one of the Heads of Department and he said they should have failed half the intake in first year.

I feel the colleges are leaning too much on the secondary system exam for their own purposes. The Leaving cert is a test of what they have learnt in second level and at the top end to get a H1 in most subjects you do need to have very good knowledge and a bit of a flair.

I fundamentally disagree with basing college entry almost exclusively on it using points and not subjects. Now have I will admit that I also wouldn’t like to see courses being entirely interview based either given how small we are. The long and the short of it though is that 520 points for example is a ridiculous base line when the student could have achieved that using maths and science when they are applying for a course in anthropology

It is amplifying the pressure on the Leaving cert

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 04:50PM

jrosen wrote: »

Id hate to have the schools stay open into the Summer, the year has just been **** enough. I dont see the value add.

Same here. I would really resent it to be honest. I am working harder remotely than I would be if I was in the building.

Whether or not being online replicates the 'real deal' of being in the building is a different argument completely.

If what we are doing now (remote learning) is so useless, why are we doing it then?

If I'd be expected to work in June, July and August, then I'd be looking for at least April and May off. And quite frankly, I don't care how that sounds to some of ye.

I work bloody hard the months I'm in there and I do that with the knowledge that I have that time off.

am_zarathustra · 23-01-2021 04:59PM

I think the media amplify the LC beyond where it should be. Same stake applied when I did mine but the levels of stress were much lower. Honestly I barely worried at all. I think it also depends on the course what you would need to be good at it. Art courses being portfolio based for instance.

I'd like another model, interview, matric (if actually funded) but Ireland is so small it would be open to abuse. Also we all know within 5 minutes there would be interview prep courses like England or America. The LC is a great leveler is some ways. I think subject restrictions are an easy hit though, I don't want to start a row but some subjects require insane work and aptitude to get the A1 some just the work.

Ray Donovan · 23-01-2021 05:31PM

After today’s interview by MM it seems to me that If your child attends mainstream primary school and is not on a School Support Plus plan your child won’t be returning to school until Monday April 12th.

He mentioned after St Patrick’s Day but thats a smokescreen because there would be absolutely no point opening up the entire education sector on March 18th for 6.5 school days, and then it all shuts down again for 2 weeks on March 26th.

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 05:37PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

After today’s interview by MM it seems to me that If your child attends mainstream primary school and is not on a School Support Plus plan your child won’t be returning to school until Monday April 12th.

He mentioned after St Patrick’s Day but thats a smokescreen because there would be absolutely no point opening up the entire education sector on March 18th for 6.5 school days, and then it all shuts down again for 2 weeks on March 26th.

I dunno. His exact words were that the whole 1 million won't be back and he also said that a full return wouldn't be happening by St Patrick's day.

We will have to wait and see what they are thinking. Could be blended learning. Certain year groups in on certain days.

I couldn't see it being an across-the-board remote learning full-time-for-all situation indefinitely.

mirrorwall14 · 23-01-2021 05:39PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I dunno. His exact words were that the whole 1 million won't be back and he also said that a full return wouldn't be happening by St Patrick's day.

We will have to wait and see what they are thinking. Could be blended learning. Certain year groups in on certain days.

I couldn't see it being an across-the-board remote learning full-time for all situation indefinitely.

If they have any sense given this variant they will actually stagger the return properly and use from feb 1st to Paddy’s day to increase the cohort attending school in two week increments keeping an eye on the community numbers....

But that’s probably asking waaaaay too much of this lot

km79 · 23-01-2021 05:40PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I dunno. His exact words were that the whole 1 million won't be back and he also said that a full return wouldn't be happening by St Patrick's day.

We will have to wait and see what they are thinking. Could be blended learning. Certain year groups in on certain days.

I couldn't see it being an across-the-board remote learning full-time for all situation indefinitely.

This is exactly what I will be !
Luckily the Dept have been working for ten months on a contingency blended learning guidance document
I expected to see “autonomy at school level” feature a LOT

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 05:45PM

km79 wrote: »

This is exactly what I will be !
Luckily the Dept have been working for ten months on a contingency blended learning guidance document
I expected to see “autonomy at school level” feature a LOT

:pac:

Piehead · 23-01-2021 05:46PM

Probably need to stay closed til Sept

km79 · 23-01-2021 05:46PM

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1353020081341689857?s=08

Dayo93 · 23-01-2021 05:48PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

After today’s interview by MM it seems to me that If your child attends mainstream primary school and is not on a School Support Plus plan your child won’t be returning to school until Monday April 12th.

He mentioned after St Patrick’s Day but thats a smokescreen because there would be absolutely no point opening up the entire education sector on March 18th for 6.5 school days, and then it all shuts down again for 2 weeks on March 26th.

Maybe the Easter holidays should be scrapped bar a long weekend and pull the holidays back into March.

km79 · 23-01-2021 05:48PM

Dayo93 wrote: »

Maybe the Easter holidays should be scrapped bar a long weekend and pull the holidays back into March.

Probably pointless as the far side will be the same !

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 05:50PM

km79 wrote: »

Probably pointless as the far side will be the same !

Yeah I'd be wary of taking holidays early to make up the time later.

By the time later comes around we'd likely be in no better a situation

Millem · 23-01-2021 05:50PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

After today’s interview by MM it seems to me that If your child attends mainstream primary school and is not on a School Support Plus plan your child won’t be returning to school until Monday April 12th.

He mentioned after St Patrick’s Day but thats a smokescreen because there would be absolutely no point opening up the entire education sector on March 18th for 6.5 school days, and then it all shuts down again for 2 weeks on March 26th.

Who knows but I am thinking along the same lines tbh. From what I see online glor are looking for cases in double digits. MM mentioned cases back to Oct/November levels.
It’s just a disaster tbh. Every week will tell a tale. I do feel very sorry for students with additional needs but I can’t see many special classes/schools opening up until they all open up.

km79 · 23-01-2021 05:51PM

Millem wrote: »

Who knows but I am thinking along the same lines tbh. From what I see online glor are looking for cases in double digits. MM mentioned cases back to Oct/November levels.
It’s just a disaster tbh. Every week will tell a tale. I do feel very sorry for students with additional needs but I can’t see many special classes/schools opening up until they all open up.

Reading between the lines I don’t expect any classes back before mid term at all now

Neagra · 23-01-2021 05:55PM

km79 wrote: »

Probably pointless as the far side will be the same !

why would you think it is pointless?

i thinks its a great idea. call the holidays now until schools return and then run school well into summer to make up the time.
and start next school year in September as usual

combat14 · 23-01-2021 05:56PM

this new uk dominant variant and the new varities from brazil, south africa and perhaps other places that perhaps are resistant to the current developed vaccines are game changers in terms of speedy and safe reopening of schools

the fact that the uk variety is both more transmissable (up to 70%) and perhaps 30% more deadly than the original china virus is worrying

the significant reduction in vaccine roll out due to severe production issues is also a massive problem

lets hope we get lucky with vaccine rollout and no more mutations of the virus or we are in serious trouble

Clouron · 23-01-2021 06:00PM

Makes sense to me. For both teachers and working parents the whole primary homeschooling double jobbing is very very wearing and not at all sustainable. Many burned out the last time and in the end, just told the schools they couldn't do it with full time jobs.

I can't imagine any of us getting a summer holiday this year anyway...

quote="Neagra;116020248"]why would you think it is pointless?

i thinks its a great idea. call the holidays now until schools return and then run school well into summer to make up the time.
and start next school year in September as usual[/quote]

History Queen · 23-01-2021 06:03PM

Clouron wrote: »

Makes sense to me. For both teachers and working parents the whole primary homeschooling double jobbing is very very wearing and not at all sustainable. Many burned out the last time and in the end, just told the schools they couldn't do it with full time jobs.

I can't imagine any of us getting a summer holiday this year anyway...

quote="Neagra;116020248"]why would you think it is pointless?

i thinks its a great idea. call the holidays now until schools return and then run school well into summer to make up the time.
and start next school year in September as usual

[/quote]

Run this school year straight in to the next?

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 06:04PM

Neagra wrote: »

why would you think it is pointless?

i thinks its a great idea. call the holidays now until schools return and then run school well into summer to make up the time.
and start next school year in September as usual

We are likely to be battling this situation until we are all vaccinated. That is not going to happen by the Easter holidays.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01