2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

fliball123 · 22-01-2021 1:05pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Never once stated 21k. I stated c. 20k, which isn't too far off and much closer than your c. 14k figure that you were putting out a few months back

The c. 21k figure I used was the 2019 figure and I was comparing it to the nonsense some were posting here that practically no new houses were being built during 2020 and I was stating that we were still building a similar number of houses compared to the previous year.

My c. 20k figure was very close IMO

Taking out the much lower net inward migration and students coming into Dublin during 2020, the 18.5k figure put out by the Central Bank for 2020 makes us in a much better position, housing supply wise, than if covid-19 never happened IMO.

I never said 14k if I did show me?? Sure when we were arguing about it there was already more than 14k built. I said 17/18k and the other thing is those numbers are still not concrete if anything the last 2 lockdowns may bring them down. So sorry to tell you I was actually closer

So you still think we not going to have anyone coming to live in Ireland from other countries when covid is a thing of the past..What are you basing that on?

Villa05 · 22-01-2021 1:05pm

fliball123 wrote:

If we all took that approach no one would ever take a risk at any time. But to put it in context in the last crash we should not of borrowed the 200 billion for banks and for the ballooning of ps pay and welfare that preceded the last crash. The banks were an absolute bunch of underhanded thieves and the ps pay /pensions and welfare were not just adding to the debt but the deficit at least the banks were a one off payment. We were also being charged a fairly high interest rate at the time. So to look at the 30 billion we are borrowing between 2020 and 2021 .

You do realise that what you describe was a direct result of unaffordable housing.

Pay had to rise to try and keep pace with those house prices

Interest free loans should be used addressing infrastructure deficits within the economy that generate a return or alleviate/reduce current spending. Hap being the obvious

Instead we are using this money to commit to long term leases embedding that spending at an increasing level for generations to come

Economic suicide from a position of great strength

Cyrus · 22-01-2021 1:12pm

Villa05 wrote: »

You do realise that what you describe was a direct result of unaffordable housing.

Pay had to rise to try and keep pace with those house prices

id argue that house prices rose as pay rose not the opposite.

fliball123 · 22-01-2021 1:17pm

Villa05 wrote: »

You do realise that what you describe was a direct result of unaffordable housing.

Pay had to rise to try and keep pace with those house prices

Interest free loans should be used addressing infrastructure deficits within the economy that generate a return or alleviate/reduce current spending. Hap being the obvious

Instead we are using this money to commit to long term leases embedding that spending at an increasing level for generations to come

Economic suicide from a position of great strength

I think its chicken and egg with regards to which influenced which was property rising because wages started rising or vice versa. I agree with where the spend where it should be going having said that I think it was the right decision to spend 30 billion last year and this year to try and keep the private sector from falling off a cliff. Its not like they had a choice to work.

Villa05 · 22-01-2021 1:21pm

LasersGoPewPew wrote:

Could the minister for housing put forward legislation to prevent the sale of new builds to REITs? Or force developers to sell only to private individuals? What are the possible legal challenges to this type of legislation?

Much easier to put a standard tax on rental income. Levels the playing field with some landlords paying no tax (rents) and others paying 50 percent

Cyrus wrote:

id argue that house prices rose as pay rose not the opposite.

You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then

MacronvFrugals · 22-01-2021 1:23pm

Villa05 wrote: »

Instead we are using this money to commit to long term leases embedding that spending at an increasing level for generations to come

To quote Meghan Trainor - "It's all about that (political) base"

Browney7 · 22-01-2021 1:24pm

Villa05 wrote: »

Much easier to put a standard tax on rental income. Levels the playing field with some landlords paying no tax (rents) and others paying 50 percent

You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then

Availability and levels of credit would be my one reason for runaway price increases in the "boom" years. (110% mortgages, lax underwriting etc)

fliball123 · 22-01-2021 1:24pm

Villa05 wrote: »

Much easier to put a standard tax on rental income. Levels the playing field with some landlords paying no tax (rents) and others paying 50 percent

You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then

and as you know you can borrow multiples of your wage for property. So if wage goes up by 10% the 10% has 3.5times more value when it comes to buying a property

PropQueries · 22-01-2021 1:37pm

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said 14k if I did show me?? Sure when we were arguing about it there was already more than 14k built. I said 17/18k and the other thing is those numbers are still not concrete if anything the last 2 lockdowns may bring them down. So sorry to tell you I was actually closer

So you still think we not going to have anyone coming to live in Ireland from other countries when covid is a thing of the past..What are you basing that on?

Common sense. The IDA has already stated that pre-covid predictions of FDI into Ireland over the coming few years most likely won't materialise now given the inability to perform on-site visits during 2020 and into 2021.

The tourism sector most likely won't return to 2019 levels for another few years.

I doubt international students will be back to pre-covid levels for the 2021/2022 academic year. And, we're still building or finishing off all those additional student accommodation units. Don't they need to decide where they're heading to college next year around now?

If construction is going to be down as much as you predict this year and next, we also won't need any more construction workers.

So, if you believe net inward migration (which amounts to about a quarter or a third of the pre-covid predictions of demand for residential units going forward) will return to pre-covid levels in 2022, where will they be gaining employment?

Even if net inward migration did return to 2019 levels in 2022 (highly unlikely IMO), we will have still added c. 40k additional new built residential units in the meantime (2020 + 2021) based upon the central bank link you provided.

In all fairness, the above are not my predictions, but were in a very good article I read a couple of months ago. Can't find it at the moment but will link to it once I do as it makes sense IMO.

MacronvFrugals · 22-01-2021 2:24pm

Call over access to housing schemes for divorced, separated people

The new affordable housing scheme should be opened up to some of the country's 220,000 divorced and separated people, according to a support group.

But One Family has asked for more flexibility, saying it is seeing people who are in dire need of housing for themselves and their children who are out of the family home or in negative equity.

CEO Karen Kiernan said: "We have parents telling us they can clearly see that if they become homeless they will cost the State more than if they can access State schemes now and try to get secure housing for their families."

A spokesperson for the Department of Housing said that the details of the scheme are still being worked out but "close consideration" is being given to include people who are divorced or legally separated.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0122/1191293-affordable-housing-scheme/

Cyrus · 22-01-2021 2:30pm

Villa05 wrote: »

You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then

Because you can borrow multiples of your income and because of the emergence of the female professional classes meaning you now had 2 of these incomes combined.

DataDude · 22-01-2021 2:45pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Because you can borrow multiples of your income and because of the emergence of the female professional classes meaning you now had 2 of these incomes combined.

Assuming we refer to inflation of both in percentage terms:
€100k salary = €450k mortgage
€103k salary (3% increase) = €463.5k mortgage (3% increase)

The latter (two incomes) is a factor I'm sure.

fliball123 · 22-01-2021 2:51pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Common sense. The IDA has already stated that pre-covid predictions of FDI into Ireland over the coming few years most likely won't materialise now given the inability to perform on-site visits during 2020 and into 2021.

The tourism sector most likely won't return to 2019 levels for another few years.

I doubt international students will be back to pre-covid levels for the 2021/2022 academic year. And, we're still building or finishing off all those additional student accommodation units. Don't they need to decide where they're heading to college next year around now?

If construction is going to be down as much as you predict this year and next, we also won't need any more construction workers.

Even if net inward migration did return to 2019 levels in 2022 (highly unlikely IMO), we will have still added c. 40k additional new built residential units in the meantime (2020 + 2021) based upon the central bank link you provided.

In all fairness, the above are not my predictions, but were in a very good article I read a couple of months ago. Can't find it at the moment but will link to it once I do as it makes sense IMO.

So your basing it on something the IDA have said that it could not do due to covid during the two year period in question?As well as thinking that 2020 and 2021 will be the norm going forward as apposed to the 6 year previous where international flight and the ability to actually emigrate were allowed without lockdown or self isolation or where schools and jobs were open for people to actually come in to this country and take and you think that is common sense

Villa05 · 22-01-2021 3:19pm

Cyrus wrote:

Because you can borrow multiples of your income and because of the emergence of the female professional classes meaning you now had 2 of these incomes combined.

You could always borrow multiples of your income on a mortgage.

Was the financial value of a partner staying at home 0 considering childcare is at 1000 euro per month plus the more you earn the higher the tax.

How come houses and gardens got smaller in the period in question.

donnaille · 22-01-2021 3:21pm

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said 14k if I did show me?? Sure when we were arguing about it there was already more than 14k built. I said 17/18k and the other thing is those numbers are still not concrete if anything the last 2 lockdowns may bring them down. So sorry to tell you I was actually closer

So you still think we not going to have anyone coming to live in Ireland from other countries when covid is a thing of the past..What are you basing that on?

Wasn't this your post?

"Like I say I will hold my hands up if I am wrong when Jan comes around I reckon 16k so about 4k short of the 20k estimated at the start of the year. What were the build completions in Q1 and Q2? I believe up until the end of Q3 we were ar 13.300k (approx) So Q4 we have to get 6.7k finished with a new lockdown, bad weather, Xmas holidays and MeHole Martin telling us 20k wont be possible yesterday?...As I say no point arguing the data will be there in Jan"

Timing belt · 22-01-2021 3:32pm

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Could the minister for housing put forward legislation to prevent the sale of new builds to REITs? Or force developers to sell only to private individuals? What are the possible legal challenges to this type of legislation?

It's understandable why developers want to sell to REITs. But I think they would have difficulty selling whole swathes of property to private individuals if such legislation was introduced due to the social housing quota. The social housing quota for new builds has certainly put me off from buying new, I'm not afraid to say that knowing I will get lambasted for stating same. It would sicken me to know that someone could walk into a property in a new build and pay practically nothing for a similar property as I. And also the unpleasant social issues that may be incurred.

Before covid and the need for more space, I toyed with the idea of buying an apartment in clonbern, phoenix park racecourse. They seemed like nice apartments until I found out an Irish housing charity purchased a block of 88 apartments beside it, which was handed over to Fingal Coco for solely social housing. There are a number of apartments that remain unsold in the development. I believe this is partly because of this block handed to the council, and partly because it's overpriced for the area.
That's why I switched to looking for secondhand property in matured areas and developments build prior to the mandate. I don't tar all people in social housing with the same brush, but we have all heard of the horror stories and read the feelings of entitlement. I don't want to deal with the potential headache.

The issue with preventing REITS from buying is that it will reduce the amount of housing stock that is available to rent. Which in turn will push rental prices higher. The housing needs of the country is not only confined to people purchasing their own property.

Timing belt · 22-01-2021 3:50pm

DataDude wrote: »

Assuming we refer to inflation of both in percentage terms:
€100k salary = €450k mortgage
€103k salary (3% increase) = €463.5k mortgage (3% increase)

The latter (two incomes) is a factor I'm sure.

There are a range of factors that are not just confined to income:

Wealth - People will have wealth that will enable them to pay more.
People who could afford to buy with there income but decided not get in the market because of deflation. Once house they saw inflation in house prices they decided they better buy or they may not be able to in the future.
Institutional investors that are not capped at 3.5x income.
Government HTB schemes

The one thing that is for sure is that the higher prices go without the same percentage of wage growth the smaller the cohort of the population that will be able to afford the prices based just on their income.

In other words the market will max out at a level and because there will be no house inflation speculators sitting on land will not build, there will be more demand for rental accommodation as people are locked out of buying which in turn pushes rents higher.

Mic 1972 · 22-01-2021 4:42pm

The market is literally on fire at the moment.
Apartments that were going for 210K in Q4 are now being bid for over 240K
It looks like the increase in asking price is translating in even higher sales price

Marius34 · 22-01-2021 4:58pm

The increase of property prices are much more than just income.
There are major increase in Land costs, regulation costs, material costs, increase in standards, infrastructure costs, Tax costs and so on..

PropQueries · 22-01-2021 6:50pm

Marius34 wrote: »

The increase of property prices are much more than just income.
There are major increase in Land costs, regulation costs, material costs, increase in standards, infrastructure costs, Tax costs and so on..

Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards.

Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018.

If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering?

I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc.

Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541

According to MyHome.ie:

"Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"

Marius34 · 22-01-2021 7:15pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards.

Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018.

If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering?

I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc.

Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541

According to MyHome.ie:

"Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"

Mainly Land cost, there are other difference, but it's insignificant comparing to the cost of land in this case.

Timing belt · 22-01-2021 7:20pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards.

Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018.

If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering?

I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc.

Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541

According to MyHome.ie:

"Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"

This house is not in Waterford city but is out in Dungarvan so the land should be cheaper than Waterford City.

I was unable to find the cost of development land in Dungarvan but did find a similar house in Blarney in Cork for which we could compare land values.
i.e.
An equivalent house in blarney in cork on sale for 310k
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/aran-gleann-fia-tower-blarney-cork/4475866

The house that prop shared in Dungarvan on sale for 225k
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/waterford/house-for-sale-in-dungarvan

Difference 85k

Price per acre in blarney is 43k
https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40068806.html

price per acre sandyford Dublin 10m
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sandyford-site-with-planning-for-over-450-homes-makes-38m-1.3804786

PropQueries · 22-01-2021 7:47pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards.

Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018.

If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering?

I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc.

Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541

According to MyHome.ie:

"Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"

I wasn't "comparing" it to Dublin houses as every estate is different. My question was:

"If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering"

Marius34 · 22-01-2021 7:53pm

Timing belt wrote: »

This house is not in Waterford city but is out in Dungarvan so the land should be cheaper than Waterford City.

I was unable to find the cost of development land in Dungarvan but did find a similar house in Blarney in Cork for which we could compare land values.
i.e.
An equivalent house in blarney in cork on sale for 310k
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/aran-gleann-fia-tower-blarney-cork/4475866

The house that prop shared in Dungarvan on sale for 225k
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/waterford/house-for-sale-in-dungarvan

Difference 85k

Price per acre in blarney is 43k
https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40068806.html

price per acre sandyford Dublin 10m
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sandyford-site-with-planning-for-over-450-homes-makes-38m-1.3804786

I'll say regardless of the house. Looking at the land size, I think it's fair to say, that size of land value for house, would be around 400K in Stillorgan. For expensive areas like Stillorgan, mostly is not the house that dominates the price, but the land value.

Timing belt · 22-01-2021 7:56pm

PropQueries wrote: »

I wasn't "comparing" it to Dublin houses as every estate is different. My question was:

"If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.

So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering"

it will mainly be land...

If land prices in Dublin are 4 times higher than the house you shared in Dungarvan and 25% of the cost of building a house related to the land cost then the equivalent house in Dublin (assuming all costs except land are the same) would cost 460k.

Obviously land in more desirable locations will attract a higher price.

This is the reason why people buy a house in good location knock it down and build a new house. They have more value in the land and its location.

Smouse156 · 22-01-2021 11:20pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The market is literally on fire at the moment.
Apartments that were going for 210K in Q4 are now being bid for over 240K
It looks like the increase in asking price is translating in even higher sales price

I highly doubt anyone is bidding way over asking in Dublin given that it’s a virtual ghost town and WFH has caused loads to leave! Outside I would say demand is strong and will stay so until supply increases...in Dublin, let’s be honest, not likely!

Anyone getting carried away now, especially in Dublin will seriously regret it in a year when vendors start listing again when it is safe to do so, not to mention all the probate sales in the pipeline. Maximum affordability was hit late 2018 and wages are going down so any short term spike won’t be long lived.

PropQueries · 22-01-2021 11:22pm

Timing belt wrote: »

it will mainly be land...

If land prices in Dublin are 4 times higher than the house you shared in Dungarvan and 25% of the cost of building a house related to the land cost then the equivalent house in Dublin (assuming all costs except land are the same) would cost 460k.

Obviously land in more desirable locations will attract a higher price.

This is the reason why people buy a house in good location knock it down and build a new house. They have more value in the land and its location.

So, it’s probably agreed that the only real reason for the difference in the cost of building an A2-rated three bed semi in Dublin compared to Waterford is the cost of the site.

All those reports published over the past 5 years on the possible reasons for the rising cost of housing in Dublin are next to useless from a government policy point of view.

Unless the government implements the Kenny report or something similar, it would seem there’s no point commissioning another report unless it properly addresses the only real reason for the difference i.e. the site cost.

They should also probably rename the proposed HTB scheme to HTL i.e. Help The Landowner, as that’s where the proposed up to €100k loan to the poor home buyer will be really going.

Timing belt · 22-01-2021 11:41pm

PropQueries wrote: »

So, it’s probably agreed that the only real reason for the difference in the cost of building an A2-rated three bed semi in Dublin compared to Waterford is the cost of the site.

All those reports published over the past 5 years on the possible reasons for the rising cost of housing in Dublin are next to useless from a government policy point of view.

Unless the government implements the Kenny report or something similar, it would seem there’s no point commissioning another report unless it properly addresses the only real reason for the difference i.e. the site cost.

They should also probably rename the proposed HTB scheme to HTL i.e. Help The Landowner, as that’s where the proposed up to €100k loan to the poor home buyer will be really going.

The landowners paid well over the odds for the land back in 07/08....

The government have allowed them do this instead of encouraging them to sell the land at a loss via tax relief if they built houses or by taxing the sh1tt out of them for not using it.

The developers have sat on it till it is worth something close to what they paid for it and with rising house prices we will see more and more of it come to the market.

I have said before that if the land is not used in a certain time frame the land should be automatically re-zoned so the developer takes the hit.

TheSheriff · 22-01-2021 11:43pm

Smouse156 wrote: »

I highly doubt anyone is bidding way over asking in Dublin given that it’s a virtual ghost town and WFH has caused loads to leave! Outside I would say demand is strong and will stay so until supply increases...in Dublin, let’s be honest, not likely!

Anyone getting carried away now, especially in Dublin will seriously regret it in a year when vendors start listing again when it is safe to do so, not to mention all the probate sales in the pipeline. Maximum affordability was hit late 2018 and wages are going down so any short term spike won’t be long lived.

You are clearly not in the Dublin market.

PropQueries · 23-01-2021 12:19am

Timing belt wrote: »

The landowners paid well over the odds for the land back in 07/08....

The government have allowed them do this instead of encouraging them to sell the land at a loss via tax relief if they built houses or by taxing the sh1tt out of them for not using it.

The developers have sat on it till it is worth something close to what they paid for it and with rising house prices we will see more and more of it come to the market.

I have said before that if the land is not used in a certain time frame the land should be automatically re-zoned so the developer takes the hit.

But how many of the landowners who paid over the odds during the Celtic tiger years are still making decisions other than being the face of the company? Wouldn’t the banks, Nama or the funds now own/owned or at least have control or a major say in most of that land today.

They couldn’t sit on it for the past 15 years unless they had the support of one of the above three in most cases.

So, I’m not convinced of the argument that the reason they aren’t building is down to boom era developers holding out until they get back something similar to what they paid during the boom years.

A lot (most?) of the development land around Dublin was purchased over the past few years for a fraction of the boom era prices.

For example, Cairn Homes stated a few months back that a lot of the sites they’re building on in Dublin cost an average c. €15k each and they’re average site cost was c. €30k when including the likes of the RTÉ site.

But I do like the automatic re-zoning idea as then the state isn’t exactly interfering with their property “rights”.

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1