PropQueries wrote: » I wasn't "comparing" it to Dublin houses as every estate is different. My question was: "If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k. So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering"
Timing belt wrote: » This house is not in Waterford city but is out in Dungarvan so the land should be cheaper than Waterford City. I was unable to find the cost of development land in Dungarvan but did find a similar house in Blarney in Cork for which we could compare land values. i.e. An equivalent house in blarney in cork on sale for 310khttps://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/aran-gleann-fia-tower-blarney-cork/4475866 The house that prop shared in Dungarvan on sale for 225khttps://www.myhome.ie/residential/waterford/house-for-sale-in-dungarvan Difference 85k Price per acre in blarney is 43khttps://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40068806.html price per acre sandyford Dublin 10mhttps://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sandyford-site-with-planning-for-over-450-homes-makes-38m-1.3804786
PropQueries wrote: » Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards. Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018. If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k. So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering? I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc. Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541 According to MyHome.ie: "Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"
PropQueries wrote: » Ok, in my opinion, in order to get our heads around the true cost of building a house in Dublin today, we should work backwards. Here's an example of a 99 sq.m. 3-bed, A2-rated semi-detached house in Waterford currently asking €225k. According to the PPR, it was sold in May 2018 for €172k (excl. VAT) or €195k (incl. VAT) i.e. so an A2-rated new built house for under €200k in 2018. If this exact same house was built in e.g. Stillorgan, I assume it's asking price would be well over €600k.So, what makes up the minimum of €400k difference in cost between this Waterford house and if the exact same house was built in Stillorgan? Is it land costs, labour costs, material costs etc. or is it profiteering? I would have no problem with high land costs (if there was truly a shortage of land to build on in Dublin) or profiteering. But, I do have a problem when people say it's down to e.g. higher wages in Dublin, higher regulations, higher standards (this is an A2-rated house) etc. Link to Waterford house on MyHome.ie here: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-waterside-abbeyside-dungarvan-co-waterford-x35-w582/4475541 According to MyHome.ie: "Built in 2018, this gorgeous 3 bedroom home is the first property to come to the market in Waterside since the development sold out. Enjoying the most scenic location in the development this property sure to attract interest!"
Marius34 wrote: » The increase of property prices are much more than just income. There are major increase in Land costs, regulation costs, material costs, increase in standards, infrastructure costs, Tax costs and so on..
DataDude wrote: » Assuming we refer to inflation of both in percentage terms: €100k salary = €450k mortgage €103k salary (3% increase) = €463.5k mortgage (3% increase) The latter (two incomes) is a factor I'm sure.
LasersGoPewPew wrote: » Could the minister for housing put forward legislation to prevent the sale of new builds to REITs? Or force developers to sell only to private individuals? What are the possible legal challenges to this type of legislation? It's understandable why developers want to sell to REITs. But I think they would have difficulty selling whole swathes of property to private individuals if such legislation was introduced due to the social housing quota. The social housing quota for new builds has certainly put me off from buying new, I'm not afraid to say that knowing I will get lambasted for stating same. It would sicken me to know that someone could walk into a property in a new build and pay practically nothing for a similar property as I. And also the unpleasant social issues that may be incurred. Before covid and the need for more space, I toyed with the idea of buying an apartment in clonbern, phoenix park racecourse. They seemed like nice apartments until I found out an Irish housing charity purchased a block of 88 apartments beside it, which was handed over to Fingal Coco for solely social housing. There are a number of apartments that remain unsold in the development. I believe this is partly because of this block handed to the council, and partly because it's overpriced for the area. That's why I switched to looking for secondhand property in matured areas and developments build prior to the mandate. I don't tar all people in social housing with the same brush, but we have all heard of the horror stories and read the feelings of entitlement. I don't want to deal with the potential headache.
fliball123 wrote: » I never said 14k if I did show me?? Sure when we were arguing about it there was already more than 14k built. I said 17/18k and the other thing is those numbers are still not concrete if anything the last 2 lockdowns may bring them down. So sorry to tell you I was actually closer So you still think we not going to have anyone coming to live in Ireland from other countries when covid is a thing of the past..What are you basing that on?
Cyrus wrote: Because you can borrow multiples of your income and because of the emergence of the female professional classes meaning you now had 2 of these incomes combined.
PropQueries wrote: » Common sense. The IDA has already stated that pre-covid predictions of FDI into Ireland over the coming few years most likely won't materialise now given the inability to perform on-site visits during 2020 and into 2021. The tourism sector most likely won't return to 2019 levels for another few years. I doubt international students will be back to pre-covid levels for the 2021/2022 academic year. And, we're still building or finishing off all those additional student accommodation units. Don't they need to decide where they're heading to college next year around now? If construction is going to be down as much as you predict this year and next, we also won't need any more construction workers. Even if net inward migration did return to 2019 levels in 2022 (highly unlikely IMO), we will have still added c. 40k additional new built residential units in the meantime (2020 + 2021) based upon the central bank link you provided. In all fairness, the above are not my predictions, but were in a very good article I read a couple of months ago. Can't find it at the moment but will link to it once I do as it makes sense IMO.
Cyrus wrote: » Because you can borrow multiples of your income and because of the emergence of the female professional classes meaning you now had 2 of these incomes combined.
Villa05 wrote: » You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then
The new affordable housing scheme should be opened up to some of the country's 220,000 divorced and separated people, according to a support group. But One Family has asked for more flexibility, saying it is seeing people who are in dire need of housing for themselves and their children who are out of the family home or in negative equity. CEO Karen Kiernan said: "We have parents telling us they can clearly see that if they become homeless they will cost the State more than if they can access State schemes now and try to get secure housing for their families." A spokesperson for the Department of Housing said that the details of the scheme are still being worked out but "close consideration" is being given to include people who are divorced or legally separated.
Villa05 wrote: » Much easier to put a standard tax on rental income. Levels the playing field with some landlords paying no tax (rents) and others paying 50 percent You might address why house inflation outpaced wage inflation by vast multiples then
Villa05 wrote: » Instead we are using this money to commit to long term leases embedding that spending at an increasing level for generations to come
LasersGoPewPew wrote: Could the minister for housing put forward legislation to prevent the sale of new builds to REITs? Or force developers to sell only to private individuals? What are the possible legal challenges to this type of legislation?
Cyrus wrote: id argue that house prices rose as pay rose not the opposite.
Villa05 wrote: » You do realise that what you describe was a direct result of unaffordable housing. Pay had to rise to try and keep pace with those house prices Interest free loans should be used addressing infrastructure deficits within the economy that generate a return or alleviate/reduce current spending. Hap being the obvious Instead we are using this money to commit to long term leases embedding that spending at an increasing level for generations to come Economic suicide from a position of great strength
Villa05 wrote: » You do realise that what you describe was a direct result of unaffordable housing. Pay had to rise to try and keep pace with those house prices
fliball123 wrote: If we all took that approach no one would ever take a risk at any time. But to put it in context in the last crash we should not of borrowed the 200 billion for banks and for the ballooning of ps pay and welfare that preceded the last crash. The banks were an absolute bunch of underhanded thieves and the ps pay /pensions and welfare were not just adding to the debt but the deficit at least the banks were a one off payment. We were also being charged a fairly high interest rate at the time. So to look at the 30 billion we are borrowing between 2020 and 2021 .
PropQueries wrote: » Never once stated 21k. I stated c. 20k, which isn't too far off and much closer than your c. 14k figure that you were putting out a few months back The c. 21k figure I used was the 2019 figure and I was comparing it to the nonsense some were posting here that practically no new houses were being built during 2020 and I was stating that we were still building a similar number of houses compared to the previous year. My c. 20k figure was very close IMO Taking out the much lower net inward migration and students coming into Dublin during 2020, the 18.5k figure put out by the Central Bank for 2020 makes us in a much better position, housing supply wise, than if covid-19 never happened IMO.
fliball123 wrote: » so are you just going to ignore the fact that you were wrong with your assumption of 21k house completions in 2020 it was down at 18.5k I said it would be around the 17/18k mark.https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/quarterly-bulletins/qb-archive/2021/quarterly-bulletin-q1-2021.pdf?sfvrsn=5
PropQueries wrote: » According to RTE yesterday in relation to Cairn Homes proposed development of the site they bought from RTE for c. €100 million back in 2017: "An Bord Pleanala is expected to consent next month to a High Court order quashing Cairn Homes permission for 614 residential units on former RTE lands. Cairn Homes had been granted full planning permission by An Bord Pleanála last September to develop the 8.7 acre site at Montrose in Dublin 4. The company had planned to build 611 apartments, as well as town houses, a new public park, a childcare facility, cafes, and leisure facilities on the site." According to Cairn Homes, they understand: "that the design and the consented scheme is not at issue", so it will be interesting to know why the planning permission may be quashed. Link to article on RTE.ie here: https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0121/1191186-cairn-homes-montrose-site/
fliball123 wrote: » What do you want the government to do.. Say here feck it lads lets not take the money at zero % let all the companies go to the wall and lets rewind the clock back 12 years and start cutting everything and upping taxes..The rest of the world are doing exactly what we are doing and Austerity was a proven failure. There will be no effect as the debt will be rolled over again and again and when enough time has passed it will not be as big a problem as it is now. You only have to look at the last crash we came out of it with 200billion of debt and people were saying we are doomed yet 10/12 years on the debt is/was being serviced and it didnt really have much of a sway with our finances in that 10/12 years we managed to plug a 20 Billion deficit to actually being able to have a 1.5Billion rainy day fund in 2019 along with being able to top up over and over again in areas like health. So another 30 Billion on top of this is not going to break the bank here
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