Joe Biden Presidency thread Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21

osarusan · 22-01-2021 02:27PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Right, so it wasn't an ideological cursade undertaken by Trump to actively sideline/demote religion. By suggesting that Trump demoted religion I thought you might be saying that Trump proactively demoted religion- that would involve Trump actually having a position to begin with which I could not see.

Well, the religious right had already showed their 'flexibility' in 2016 in that sexual assault, porn stars etc sat comfortably with them.

Well, it wasn't my post, but yeah, that's how I interpreted it - not anything Trump had actually done, rather what the support shown to Mr Grab 'Em By The Pussy indicated about the apparently religious.

partyguinness · 22-01-2021 02:27PM

Christy42 wrote: »

We already knew those beliefs are pretty flexible. Plenty of hyper religious anti abortion women get abortions themselves and maintain their stance that no one should be allowed abortions.

It was highlighted again with Trump though.

Ok but that being said that is more of a reflection on the religious right than on Trump himself or anything Trump did or did not do.

joseywhales · 22-01-2021 02:28PM

Christy42 wrote: »

The point is to be quicker to counter it to stop others being drawn into the crazy cults they keep spotting out.

And can we stop the stupid request to be tolerant of intolerance? I try and be friendly to people I meet. If someone comes up and punches me whenever they get near me I will absolutely be on guard when they are around. This is not a contradiction of my belief that I should be friendly to people.

It becomes an issue if your target is 48% of the population. We just need to get used to a world with disinformation. I dont accept anything left/right/centrist, everyone has an agenda. I'm not going to walk around with predefined hate either. Just read/watch/listen and integrate with your existing belief framework as usual I would have thought.

partyguinness · 22-01-2021 02:30PM

There is one thing that unites hyper religious people in disgust across all faiths- that is Atheism.

Overheal · 22-01-2021 02:56PM

Wholesome

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1352611242771427331?s=21

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 02:59PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yes and no.

Try running for high office in the US as an atheist.

They all HAVE to talk about "their faith" at some point in the process

A significant swathe of Americans (GOP Voters and a healthy slice of Independent and Centrist Democrats) simply will not vote for someone that hasn't shown a conviction to God - However fabricated and false it may be (Trump) .

Why leave out another very important demographic when your talking about this topic, one thats massively important for the Democrat primaries (reason why its Biden and not a different Democrat now really), African Americans. 90% or so likely to vote Democrat, close too twice as average to interpret scripture literally.
Doesn't play to the " its those stupid white evangelical republicans" circlejerk though.

https://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/african-americans-and-religion/

Professor Moriarty · 22-01-2021 03:04PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Why leave out another very important demographic when your talking about this topic, one thats massively important for the Democrat primaries (reason why its Biden and not a different Democrat now really), African Americans. 90% or so likely to vote Democrat, close too twice as average to interpret scripture literally.
Doesn't play to the " its those stupid white evangelical republicans" circlejerk though.

https://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/african-americans-and-religion/

Far more circlejerk white evangelicals Republicans have far more power and influence than religious black people.

Leroy42 · 22-01-2021 03:04PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Why leave out another very important demographic when your talking about this topic, one thats massively important for the Democrat primaries (reason why its Biden and not a different Democrat now really), African Americans. 90% or so likely to vote Democrat, close too twice as average to interpret scripture literally.
Doesn't play to the " its those stupid white evangelical republicans" circlejerk though.

https://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/african-americans-and-religion/

Why would you include it. What has that got to do with the impact of religion on the US political system?

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 03:12PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would you include it. What has that got to do with the impact of religion on the US political system?

Because they are a very important voting block, the focus on white evangelics makes people feel good because its politically correct to call them idiots, the fact that a majority African Americans believe in Scriptural Literalism isn't Politically Correct to call idiotic.

Particularly for the Democrats this is important due to the primary system it gives a boost to those that are publicly religious/not atheist, its not complicated but it a important factor in why Democrat candidates are also publicly religious.

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 03:14PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Far more circlejerk white evangelicals Republicans have far more power and influence than religious black people.

Both can be true you know, too much binary thinking goes on, as a very important block it pushes Democrat candidates that want to get through the Primaries to be publicly religious.

Leroy42 · 22-01-2021 03:25PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Because they are a very important voting block, the focus on white evangelics makes people feel good because its politically correct to call them idiots, the fact that a majority African Americans believe in Scriptural Literalism isn't Politically Correct to call idiotic.

Particularly for the Democrats this is important due to the primary system it gives a boost to those that are publicly religious/not atheist, its not complicated but it a important factor in why Democrat candidates are also publicly religious.

Who called them idiots? I certainly didn't.

They are hypocrites, little doubt about that.

But absolutely the African American demographic is something that should be talked about, but I fail to see the relevance when talking about the predominately white evangelical demographic.

Religion, in all in forms, has played far too big a role in politics. Not just in the US but until recently the US seemed to be sticking to it far more than other Western countries.

What makes it more strange, is that the US is fundamentally a country born out of escaping religious doctrine, allowing people to be free of others dictating their lives based on their interpretation of what 'holy' text they happen to believe in.

The Frican Americans tend to vote for the Democrats as traditional, at least it is believed, they offer the best policies for them. The same is true of the while evangelicals for the GOP.

What we witnessed at the 2016 election and the past 4 years is the claiming core beliefs of these evangelicals are not core at all. They are more than prepared to put aside their moral and beliefs if they believe the end is worth it.

Professor Moriarty · 22-01-2021 03:28PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Both can be true you know, too much binary thinking goes on, as a very important block it pushes Democrat candidates that want to get through the Primaries to be publicly religious.

What you say is true. However, the influence and impact on the Democrat party, who have to pay lip service to religion, is very different to the impact of the Republican party who have to place God front and centre at all times. This is due to the power of a significant cohort of white evangelicals many of whom are rich and influential.

Quin_Dub · 22-01-2021 03:30PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Why leave out another very important demographic when your talking about this topic, one thats massively important for the Democrat primaries (reason why its Biden and not a different Democrat now really), African Americans. 90% or so likely to vote Democrat, close too twice as average to interpret scripture literally.
Doesn't play to the " its those stupid white evangelical republicans" circlejerk though.

https://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/african-americans-and-religion/

Who left them out of anything??

The "Religious African American" would fall into the "Centrist Democrat" bucket for the most part.

They aren't Republican and by and large they aren't really "socialist" either.

So they are absolutely included in the categorisation.

WrenBoy · 22-01-2021 04:06PM

Christy42 wrote: »

The point is to be quicker to counter it to stop others being drawn into the crazy cults they keep spotting out.

And can we stop the stupid request to be tolerant of intolerance? I try and be friendly to people I meet. If someone comes up and punches me whenever they get near me I will absolutely be on guard when they are around. This is not a contradiction of my belief that I should be friendly to people.

What does this mean, intolerance is what in this context ? not being a democrat ?
Having a different political opinion is not equal to violence against you, c'mon man.

TomSweeney · 22-01-2021 04:07PM

flazio wrote: »

Not noteworthy at all in my opinion. Religion has had a very diminished impact in Western policy for over 20 years. Even the Pope is relaxing his stance on gay relationships being sinful.

Christian religion doesn't you mean ... if the USA has it's first Muslim president in the next decade the media will be wetting themselves over it.

hotmail.com · 22-01-2021 04:07PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

? Trump's support among American Evangelicals was an enormous factor in his run, and it's a big part of the Qanon fanfiction about him.

Obama was routinely innuendo'd as essentially a fake Christian or even a plain ol'Muslim.

I'm guessing Evangelicals vote for the Republicans no matter who's running.

About half of Americans attend religious services weekly including Biden. Religion is part and parcel of the American vocabulary and discourse. It comes across as cringey and weird to Europeans like us now.

Ireland and the rest of Europe have moved on from religion, not so for America and their politicians.

hotmail.com · 22-01-2021 04:23PM

CD Player wrote: »

Man antifa are cringe.

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

Professor Moriarty · 22-01-2021 04:24PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

To which Irish/British/European party would you compare them?

ohnonotgmail · 22-01-2021 04:26PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

The democrats are left wing? LOL

listermint · 22-01-2021 04:27PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The democrats are left wing? LOL

If the plane had two wings and the dems were meant to be the left one.

It wouldn't take off .

rosser44 · 22-01-2021 04:30PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

If the Dems were a party in Ireland they would be to the right of FF/FG.

The only way they are left wing is in the fact they are to the left of the GOP, who are extreme right wing - they would be on a par with the that Barrett POS over here.

Overheal · 22-01-2021 04:37PM

The Senate is not making the same mistakes that its majority did under the Obama administration

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1352638560227233794?s=20

Long may it be that they play turnabout on the GOP.

ancapailldorcha · 22-01-2021 04:39PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

If it's a myth then you should have no problem making an original, fact-based argument busting said myth instead of silly one-liners.

ohnonotgmail · 22-01-2021 04:43PM

Overheal wrote: »

The Senate is not making the same mistakes that its majority did under the Obama administration

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1352638560227233794?s=20

Long may it be that they play turnabout on the GOP.

seeing "Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer" written down looks good.

Tell me how · 22-01-2021 04:43PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

Would you accept that Republicans are right wing? Because there is demonstrably more evidence to support that statement than there is yours.

kowloon · 22-01-2021 04:45PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The biggest myth is that Democrats are not left wing.

What's your definition of "Left-Wing"? Or right-wing for that matter.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 22-01-2021 04:52PM

duploelabs wrote: »

So how is giving a trans woman equality a bad thing? I don't see any cis women being erased?

There’s a gender identity thread so I don’t want to derail this one but do you genuinely see no problem with biological males playing sports with biological females?

In a way though, I’m glad this issue has been highlighted.

Billy Mays · 22-01-2021 04:55PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If it's a myth then you should have no problem making an original, fact-based argument busting said myth instead of silly one-liners.

Looking forward to this

Overheal · 22-01-2021 04:56PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Looking forward to this

I expect Half Life 3 sooner.

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 05:00PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

To which Irish/British/European party would you compare them?

Personally probably Tony Blair's Labour party.

I don't think the comparisons work well across the Atlantic, for example something like birthright citizenship is something the Democrats are deeply wedded too but as far as I know every EU country emphasizes Jus Sanguinis and it's only really the further left not center left parties that want Jus Soli.
Or something like the way unions operate in the USA and Canada, closed Union shops are something linked to 1970's left wing thinking here, someone like Corbyn would probably have been in favour but someone like Keith Starmer isn't, as far as I know though the Democrats dislike "right to work" laws though.

Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

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Joe Biden Presidency thread Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21