What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Khumatmibro · 19-01-2021 12:56am

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that the problem lies in the fact that these people have different coloured skin. It is simply the fact that their youth are adopting the ghetto culture of the UK which is very concerning. I have no issue with anyone coming here as long as they are a decent person and add to (or at the very least don't detract from society).

For the record there are plenty of coloured lads in my year and I happen to get on well with the vast majority of them.

Strumms · 19-01-2021 12:59am

I’m sure about it, because I WAS in 2017 turned down for funding for rehabilitation from a physical problem... that’s now 85% fixed... only because of me investing significantly thousands privately in help.

Cûnt of a state physio hasn’t seen me in two years, when I made a phone call a week after the numb nuts failed to show up for an appointment I was told...”errr something came up but erm, you have everything you need right, that rehab gym errr...?” Yes the one I’m paying for thanks.... great... I just put the phone down.... 6 months later, I get discharged... I guaranteed had my name been Jeremiah Kanu fresh off the plane from xxx.... well anyway.

Scoondal · 19-01-2021 1:14am

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Can't remember who but there was a poster who was convinced Muslims hate dogs.

Here's congresswoman Ilhan Omar beaming over her new pet

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1351276519851765765?s=19

There's good evidence that Trump hates animals, even criticising Pence for having pets. The only president for decades not to have a dog, because the real hatred of dogs is coming this narcissist who is on his way out

This thread is about multi-culturalism in Ireland. Your comment is irrelevant here.

Cordell · 19-01-2021 1:17am

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Can't remember who but there was a poster who was convinced Muslims hate dogs.

They don't hate dogs, they are allowed to have them as working animals (guarding, herding etc.) but not as pets in the house, because they are unclean according to that book that has the answer for everything.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN
She is not a proper muslim, she is a "Mom, Refugee, Intersectional Feminist, 2017 Top Angler of the Governor's Fishing Opener and Congresswoman"
She ranks her identities of refugee, intersectional feminist (whatever that is) and top angler higher than that of an elected representative of the american people, so she's just as narcissistic and self absorbed as Trump, if not even more.

Scoondal · 19-01-2021 1:17am

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I am not proud of my skin color. I had no say in what color I was born I have said on here before things like black and proud, gay pride etc is the biggest load of brainwashed horsesh1t you will find.

If I build a wall I will take pride in what I created, if I dug the garden, I will take pride in my work. Pride should be reserved for something you attained, not were given unconditionally and without any say.

Why would anyone take pride in something they had absolutely no control of ?

Why gay pride,another ridiculous concept, those people did not chose to be gay.
I am not proud to be Irish either , because it was not my decision, it was out of my hands.

Thats like being proud of having blue eyes or a nose. I am referring to wanting my "tribe" , my identity group, my culture, my way of life, not being eroded.

And for the record, I have said countless times on here, I am in a mixed race marriage so dont even try to make this a racial issue.

Okay, we agree.

Scoondal · 19-01-2021 1:29am

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save;
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet they were of a different kind,
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman's rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were
In all their loneliness and pain,
You'd cry `Some woman's yellow hair
Has maddened every mother's son':
They weighed so lightly what they gave.
But let them be, they're dead and gone,
They're with O'Leary in the grave.[1]

John Doe1 · 19-01-2021 2:34am

The people who I really feel for in this country are those educated, secular Africans/Middle Easterners who came here to contribute to Irish society and integrate knowing that Ireland was the place where they could acheive prosperity and happiness rather that the more backwards/corrupt place they came from.

They must be absolutely moritifed at some of the people from their homelands who are simply a drain of resources and creators of societal division.

I hope for their sake that we stop bending to suit the needs of the bad actor newcomers but i have a bad feeling....

Strumms · 19-01-2021 3:00am

John Doe1 wrote: »

The people who I really feel for in this country are those educated, secular Africans/Middle Easterners who came here to contribute to Irish society and integrate knowing that Ireland was the place where they could acheive prosperity and happiness rather that the more backwards/corrupt place they came from.

They must be absolutely moritifed at some of the people from their homelands who are simply a drain of resources and creators of societal division.

I hope for their sake that we stop bending to suit the needs of the bad actor newcomers but i have a bad feeling....

Once the horse is bolted, the only way is to bolt the door shut... that means leaving the EU... that’s 15-20 years away, earliest... when the damage to our economy, lifestyles and safety is done, it’s too late... it will take generations to right.

19-01-2021 3:22am

Scoondal wrote: »

My wife came here. She isn't "dropping illegitimate kids". She is a helth care professional taking care of your mother because you can't be arssed yourself.
Why can't you take care of your mother ?

Well that's an absolutely horrible post.

Hopefully your wife has a better attitude if she is taking care of people.

Khumatmibro · 19-01-2021 3:24am

Strumms wrote: »

Once the horse is bolted, the only way is to bolt the door shut... that means leaving the EU... that’s 15-20 years away, earliest... when the damage to our economy, lifestyles and safety is done, it’s too late... it will take generations to right.

Is there any hope we could start sending them home in the future under a right wing government?

fantaiscool · 19-01-2021 3:26am

Strumms wrote: »

Once the horse is bolted, the only way is to bolt the door shut... that means leaving the EU... that’s 15-20 years away, earliest... when the damage to our economy, lifestyles and safety is done, it’s too late... it will take generations to right.

Yeah we shouldn't have ever joined the EU. They gave us 40 billion euro we never needed.

Gatling · 19-01-2021 4:31am

fantaiscool wrote: »

Yeah we shouldn't have ever joined the EU. They gave us 40 billion euro we never needed.

Where if we weren't in the EU we could have been self reliant and would have being able to get out of a hole like others countries by devaluation of currency and other measures like the other states who said no to the eu and the euro go figure ,
And we wouldn't be forced to agree to migrant intakes either

Wilhelm III · 19-01-2021 4:37am

Multiracialism not bad - Multiculturalism bad.

Tell me how · 19-01-2021 4:47am

Gatling wrote: »

Where if we weren't in the EU we could have been self reliant and would have being able to get out of a hole like others countries by devaluation of currency and other measures like the other states who said no to the eu and the euro go figure ,
And we wouldn't be forced to agree to migrant intakes either

Jesus Christ open a history book or read some newspapers from the 70's, 80's or talk to your parents to see how nonsensical this idea of being self-reliant or 'being able to get out of a hole' was really like.

Absolutely delusional take.

Gatling · 19-01-2021 4:54am

Tell me how wrote: »

Jesus Christ open a history book or read some newspapers from the 70's, 80's or talk to your parents to see how nonsensical this idea of being self-reliant or 'being able to get out of a hole' was really like.

I lived through it , mad idea imagine people got through it and managed to eventually get on the property ladder and full time and permanent jobs and so did there kids

Strumms · 19-01-2021 5:09am

fantaiscool wrote: »

Yeah we shouldn't have ever joined the EU. They gave us 40 billion euro we never needed.

Let me break it down for you....

The EU has massively benefited us. Fact. Past.

But the immigration situation is what we are discussing here... it’s a failed policy. Dreamt up by millionaires in gated mansions and supported and spun by their cronies. Nobody has said we shouldn’t join the EU or shouldn’t have... people are saying me included that we may be better off outside it in the future.

We joined the EEC in around 1973 I think... 48 years is a long time. If now the benefits are outweighed by the negatives...and the situation is not expected to get better.... it could be the lesser of too evils...

we will loose a lot by leaving, but we might or probably will be in the deeper shît by staying.

Tell me how · 19-01-2021 5:32am

Gatling wrote: »

I lived through it , mad idea imagine people got through it and managed to eventually get on the property ladder and full time and permanent jobs and so did there kids

If you lived through it you'll have seen the multitude of infrastructure projects which were delivered with EU regional development funds.

You'll also be aware of the role Ireland being in the EU had in so many US companies selecting it for a base from which to target the European market.

You'll also probably remember that while some got on the property ladder and got jobs (which still happens), a significant number got on ferry's and airplanes and left the country on one way tickets.

Justin Credible Darts · 19-01-2021 10:28am

Scoondal wrote: »

Okay, we agree.

you mean after you had your posts removed

CruelCoin · 19-01-2021 10:50am

Strumms wrote: »

We joined the EEC in around 1973 I think... 48 years is a long time. If now the benefits are outweighed by the negatives...and the situation is not expected to get better.... it could be the lesser of too evils...

we will loose a lot by leaving, but we might or probably will be in the deeper shît by staying.

You could make a perfectly good (extremely strong) argument that leaving would be a good thing on democratic principle, or maybe nationalistic principles.
But arguing that we'd be better off economically outside the trading bloc is silly.

It's one thing for the UK to run around and scoops up free trade agreements, but it's another to think we could do the same outside the EU. I don't see many countries lining up around the block to sign a free trade deal with Ireland, given how small we are. Services generally aren't covered by these deals, and what else are we able to export? Milk?

Invidious · 19-01-2021 10:56am

Strumms wrote: »

Once the horse is bolted, the only way is to bolt the door shut... that means leaving the EU... that’s 15-20 years away, earliest... when the damage to our economy, lifestyles and safety is done, it’s too late... it will take generations to right.

Is legal migration from other EU nations such a huge problem? Most Eastern European immigrants don't seem invested in foisting their own culture on us.

The pregnancy loophole of the 90s and bogus asylum seeking, bringing waves of immigrants from non-EU countries, have created far bigger problems.

TomTomTim · 19-01-2021 11:34am

Invidious wrote: »

Is legal migration from other EU nations such a huge problem? Most Eastern European immigrants don't seem invested in foisting their own culture on us.

The pregnancy loophole of the 90s and bogus asylum seeking, bringing waves of immigrants from non-EU countries, have created far bigger problems.

It's not so much that, but EU policies have incentivized an endless stream of mass immigration. If they had any will to quell the issue, they'd have a "send them back" policy in regard people coming here by boat, instead of a "take them all in" policy. The immigration issue is multifaceted, with much blame to go around, but don't bother trying to convince yourself that the EU doesn't play a big role in all of this.

Wibbs · 19-01-2021 11:40am

fantaiscool wrote: »

Even if I grant you that premise (I don't), It wouldn't change my mind. Something "going against human nature" isn't anywhere near enough of a justification to disagree with it. Many things go against human nature. I'm not religious but take christianity as an example. The teachings of christianity are in direct opposition to "human nature". "love your enemy, turn the other cheek, everone is equal under god" etc.

When I find someones phone on the street and go out of my way to make sure they get it back, I'm going against "human nature" and my "selfish genes".

Actually you're not, or at least you're focussing too much on the notion of the selfish gene in an individual and simplistic sense. Humans are social animals and what we define as altruism is built into that. We can certainly focus more on our own genetic relatives over the group, but group survival is very important, because without the group we're far more vulnerable, so altruism and group cooperation runs very strongly in us as a species. We see this in other social animal species. It's why we get the old dopamine hit from such acts. Altruism is evolutionarily advantageous.

Christianity doesn't go against human nature as you claim. It sprang from human nature in the first place. Now our big brains intellectualise and codify and often exaggerate human traits but they're still inherent. As human groups got larger and larger we had to adapt new strategies to cope with that, so organised religions, laws, government etc. The same Christianity also has a strong thread of The Other, the less equal, the non Christian, that which must convert or be cast out of the group in order to protect the group. Religions tend to have strong self protection mechanisms. That's the other side of the altruism they may promote. Altruism for Us, not so much for Them. Even the parable of the Good Samaritan is less about elevating the outsider and disliked and seen as lesser Samaritans and more about admonishing and shaming Jews and later Christians for not being as good as the outcast lesser ethnic group. The rough equivalent in Irish culture of saying "even a Traveller would treat me better than you". It sure as hell isn't elevating the Traveller.

I would rather live in a world where we strive to have values that go beyond biology. Using your view of "human nature" to revolt against multiculturalism doesn't hold up.

It does simply because we can see throughout history a group dynamic and anything considered too different to the group is seen as the Other and leads to social instability and usually conflict, unless the Other is very restricted or very small in number.
There isn't a single example in history where this isn't the case. If multiculturalism in the current western form was such a good idea we'd have seen plenty of examples where it worked in the past and we don't. It certainly doesn't work too well in recent history and while we've papered over some of the cracks, the cracks remain. Nearly 60 years ago Martin Luther King had a dream and as America's recent history demonstrates it's still a dream. Malcolm X's dream of Black Nationalism was actually more realistic, if impractical.

Wibbs · 19-01-2021 11:49am

Invidious wrote: »

Is legal migration from other EU nations such a huge problem? Most Eastern European immigrants don't seem invested in foisting their own culture on us.

The pregnancy loophole of the 90s and bogus asylum seeking, bringing waves of immigrants from non-EU countries, have created far bigger problems.

+1. This was the same daftness that informed - and I use the word advisedly - so many British voters in the Brexit vote. The "EU's open door policy is pushing too many foreigners on us!!", when the vast bulk of the same "foreigners" they have the most issue with were and are coming from their ex colonies.

Would Ireland leaving the EU cause a fall off in immigration? Yes it would and not because of the lack of any EU immigration policy, but because our economy would contract in a big way and emigration not immigration would go up.

Cordell · 19-01-2021 11:52am

+2
EU does not push for non EU migration. The only push is to redistribute the asylum seekers (bogus on not) already in EU territory and even with that each EU country actually have the power to refuse to take any. Yes, there may be fines but they are symbolic.

Invidious · 19-01-2021 12:02pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Would Ireland leaving the EU cause a fall off in immigration? Yes it would and not because of the lack of any EU immigration policy, but because our economy would contract in a big way and emigration not immigration would go up.

Exactly. Immigration has always been correlated with the economic health of the country, not EU membership.

In 1993, 91 people claimed asylum in the Republic of Ireland. By 2002, the numbers seeking asylum had increased to 11,634. It's obvious that the Celtic Tiger economy made Ireland an attractive destination for would-be immigrants.

After the 2008 crash, many immigrants left again, and numbers of asylum seekers dropped dramatically.

CruelCoin · 19-01-2021 12:34pm

Invidious wrote: »

After the 2008 crash, many immigrants left again, and numbers of asylum seekers dropped dramatically.

Which raises the question why we aren't calling a spade a spade and recognising them for the economic migrants they are?

Invidious · 19-01-2021 12:43pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

Which raises the question why we aren't calling a spade a spade and recognising them for the economic migrants they are?

Because SJWs will never accept that ethnic minorities are capable of behavior that is dishonest, fraudulent, or illegal, such as applying for asylum under false pretenses ... even though it's clearly been going on for years.

Mike Murdock · 19-01-2021 1:16pm

Invidious wrote: »

Because SJWs will never accept that ethnic minorities are capable of behavior that is dishonest, fraudulent, or illegal, such as applying for asylum under false pretenses ... even though it's clearly been going on for years.

There are some that STILL defend Pamela Izevbekhai. Even though she drained the Irish taxpayer for over 1 million euro in legal fees and was proven to be a fraud.

Marcos · 19-01-2021 1:41pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually you're not, or at least you're focussing too much on the notion of the selfish gene in an individual and simplistic sense. Humans are social animals and what we define as altruism is built into that. We can certainly focus more on our own genetic relatives over the group, but group survival is very important, because without the group we're far more vulnerable, so altruism and group cooperation runs very strongly in us as a species. We see this in other social animal species. It's why we get the old dopamine hit from such acts. Altruism is evolutionarily advantageous.

This is the point that Richard Dawkins missed when he wrote the selfish gene.

But like anything, you can have too much of it. The Chinese have a word for (white) western SJWs who promote the likes of multiculturalism merely to boost their own sense of moral righteousness. It's Baizuo or White Left. Klaz would probably be able to tell you more about this.

Wibbs wrote: »

Christianity doesn't go against human nature as you claim. It sprang from human nature in the first place. Now our big brains intellectualise and codify and often exaggerate human traits but they're still inherent. As human groups got larger and larger we had to adapt new strategies to cope with that, so organised religions, laws, government etc.

As for organised religion and altruism, look at Buddhism, a religion which puts altruism at the heart of it's beliefs, moreso than other religions IMO. But even they recognise that there are limits. In 2018, at a conference in Malmo, the Dalai Lama said that refugees should go home and rebuild their own countries and leave Europe for Europeans. Europe should help and educate them of course, but with the proviso that they go back to their own countries.

Wibbs · 19-01-2021 1:56pm

Marcos wrote: »

This is the point that Richard Dawkins missed when he wrote the selfish gene.

Oh he referenced it alright and expanded on the whys of it too. Problem is too many have only read the title of the book, or forgot/ignore that part. You see that often enough from American commentators on the right. American culture itself in many ways is more about the individual than the group, so as culture tends to filter out things that don't fit within that culture people can ignore such things.

But like anything, you can have too much of it. The Chinese have a word for (white) western SJWs who promote the likes of multiculturalism merely to boost their own sense of moral righteousness. It's Baizuo or White Left. Klaz would probably be able to tell you more about this.

Beyond the European/Western world and her influence that form of multiculturalism is generally seen as a bit of an alien concept alright.

As for organised religion and altruism, look at Buddhism, a religion which puts altruism at the heart of it's beliefs, moreso than other religions IMO. But even they recognise that there are limits. In 2018, at a conference in Malmo, the Dalai Lama said that refugees should go home and rebuild their own countries and leave Europe for Europeans. Europe should help and educate them of course, but with the proviso that they go back to their own countries.

If any White European were to suggest that they'd be seen as alt right/fascist. The Dalai Lama can get away with it by virtue of not being White European, even though he would generally be the darling of those more likely to shout fascist.

As an aside he always gave me the creeps tbh. Never mind that while the Chinese in Tibet is a bad thing, him wanting a return to what was a very patriarchal theocracy with many issues of its own is hardly advantageous either, but maybe time has softened his cough on that.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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