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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Comments

  • #1442
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    So, anyone think that the DES/NF will come up with an alternative plan if the return to schools is a non-runner next week? A solid plan and guidance and funding for SN's children? Or are all the eggs in one basket, again.

    Not a hope, they'll stumble from one late Friday announcement to another


  • #1443
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    Not a hope, they'll stumble from one late Friday announcemt to another

    Disgraceful, isn't it. So if parents are not comfortable sending their children in, if they have underlying conditions especially, then they are totally SOL with this one size fits all plan?
    :mad:
    Isn't there some shocking statistic regarding covid rates in the special schools; did they all have it, or have higher rates-can't remember what it was now. Due to the needs and nature of teaching in this environment...


  • #1444
    Summer2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    Surely to god if special schools don’t open next Thursday as announced by Foley she will have no option but to resign. You can’t keep announcing things without agreement and consultation in place only for it to no happen without eventually suffering the consequences. Clearly announcing openings to put the pressure on principals to open or else they look like the bad guys. Glad they’re standing up to her bullying tactics, the public can see who the real idiots are in this and it’s not the principals.


  • #1445
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    That letter might just have the opposite effect than desired.

    Could result in all schools being sent back so as to not 'discriminate' and be fair and equal.

    Lashing out at AsIAm and Down Syndrome Ireland is certainly a divisive approach.


  • #1446
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Locotastic wrote: »
    That letter might just have the opposite effect than desired.

    Could result in all schools being sent back so as to not 'discriminate' and be fair and equal.

    Lashing out at AsIAm and Down Syndrome Ireland is certainly a divisive approach.

    Not lashing out pointing out a fact AsIAm and Down Syndrome Ireland chose not to emphasise


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  • #1447
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    khalessi wrote: »
    Not lashing out pointing out a fact AsIAm and Down Syndrome Ireland chose not to emphasise

    Calling them hypocrites, not a good way to get a point across.


  • #1448
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Locotastic wrote: »
    Calling them hypocrites, not a good way to get a point across.

    It is hypocritical, they are on the radio and tv calling for teachers to go to work and yet sitting at home, the same with the Dáil saying schools are safe from the Conference Centre and then agreeing to meet one day a week. Hypocritical


  • #1449
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Locotastic wrote: »
    Calling them hypocrites, not a good way to get a point across.

    Calling a spade a spade, pointing out hypocrisy and one that is unsafe is a fine point to get across. If they don't like it it's because they know it's true.


  • #1450
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30994049.html

    Wanna do a few pages of cherry picking quotes or you wanna recognise that teachers were going to support their students in July?

    I find this place highly entertaining. You'd swear we had lined up a few students and shot them the way people whinge on here.

    Can guess who's posted now without even reading the poster's name. Highly entertaining stuff

    It wasn't cherry picked or taken out of context. “no teacher will be required to do anything” was the entire point of the ASTIs statement. The article you linked to was a day or two after the original statement (and some backlash) with carefully chosen use of the words 'where possible'. The core message is the same, just toned down.

    You can't rewrite history to act like the unions were willing to do whatever it took for students when they weren't. Next people will be playing down the TUIs history with vaccines.


  • #1451
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    It wasn't cherry picked or taken out of context. “no teacher will be required to do anything” was the entire point of the ASTIs statement. The article you linked to was a day or two after the original statement (and some backlash) with carefully chosen use of the words 'where possible'. The core message is the same, just toned down.

    You can't rewrite history to act like the unions were willing to do whatever it took for students when they weren't. Next people will be playing down the TUIs history with vaccines.

    You quoted when you should have summarised therefore out of context.


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  • #1452
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    khalessi wrote: »
    It is hypocritical, they are on the radio and tv calling for teachers to go to work and yet sitting at home, the same with the Dáil saying schools are safe from the Conference Centre and then agreeing to meet one day a week. Hypocritical

    I'm not sure that's s very good argument. Those organisations wouldn't normally be physically interacting with the children they advocate for anyway. So they can say they are just as well able to work remotely in a way a hands on person couldn't. Not arguing here that it's safe to return to school, at the moment I don't think it is, just that the point isn't all that great.


  • #1453
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    khalessi wrote: »
    You quoted when you should have summarised therefore out of context.

    I don't think that's what out of context means.


  • #1454
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,032 ✭✭✭daheff


    Summer2020 wrote: »
    Surely to god if special schools don’t open next Thursday as announced by Foley she will have no option but to resign. You can’t keep announcing things without agreement and consultation ...

    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???


  • #1455
    The Wordress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭The Wordress


    I had lost all hope that the decision to reopen Special Classes and Schools would be reversed but now I feel a bit more optimistic.


  • #1456
    WicklaBlaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭WicklaBlaa


    khalessi wrote: »
    It is hypocritical, they are on the radio and tv calling for teachers to go to work and yet sitting at home, the same with the Dáil saying schools are safe from the Conference Centre and then agreeing to meet one day a week. Hypocritical

    Calling these organisations hypocritical is not a good look.

    It is not essential that they go to their offices to work unlike other jobs and professions, including healthcare, certain retail, etc.

    There benefits of bringing teachers and students into school must be weighed up against the risks. Students ultimately lose out not being in the classroom. The same cannot be said for all employees with AsIAm who can advocate from home.


  • #1457
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    daheff wrote: »
    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???

    Where is anyone refusing to go to work?

    This is a pivotal moment for the INTO.

    I'm currently on my 5th INTO zoom call today. The leadership did not read the room at all.


  • #1458
    The Wordress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭The Wordress


    daheff wrote: »
    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???

    Yeah they just decided to take a bit of random time off in the middle of a Global Pandemic.

    It is also a breach of contract not to have a safe and healthy working environment.


  • #1459
    mosstin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭mosstin


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Where is anyone refusing to go to work?

    This is a pivotal moment for the INTO.

    I'm currently on my 5th INTO zoom call today. The leadership did not read the room at all.


    And in what way is this new?


  • #1460
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    It wasn't cherry picked or taken out of context. “no teacher will be required to do anything” was the entire point of the ASTIs statement.

    Narrowing down an entire statement to half a sentence would be the definition of cherry-picking?


  • #1461
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    daheff wrote: »
    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???

    Norma is not their boss actually
    Its the chairperson of BOM


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  • #1462
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,440 ✭✭✭✭km79


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Where is anyone refusing to go to work?

    This is a pivotal moment for the INTO.

    I'm currently on my 5th INTO zoom call today. The leadership did not read the room at all.

    What’s being said ? Are these regional meetings ?


  • #1463
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    khalessi wrote: »
    It is hypocritical, they are on the radio and tv calling for teachers to go to work and yet sitting at home, the same with the Dáil saying schools are safe from the Conference Centre and then agreeing to meet one day a week. Hypocritical

    Lashing out at advocacy groups and saying special schools cannot and must not re-open just because parents need a break (or see schools as respite). I'm sure those parents appreciate being portrayed like that.

    Floating the idea of equality court cases and using the teachers childcare excuse.

    Can't see it gaining anything other than ire but hope it brings some attention to the hard work that SNAs face every day.


  • #1464
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    daheff wrote: »
    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???

    How about that contract they have... which under Irish law gives them protection under the Health and Safety laws. Schools also have a duty to protect their students as well as their staff. Health and lives - in the middle of a pandemic in which Ireland statistics are the worst in the world - comes first.


  • #1465
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    daheff wrote: »
    Surely it would be the teachers/principals/snas that would be resigning?

    They all have a contract to work...with minister being their boss. Refusing to go work would seem to be a breach of that contract???

    Actually we also legally have a right to a safe working environment under the law so it would be up to the BOM if they have the courage to not open for H&S reasons, which would not be unreasonable considering .CMO beseeching people to stay at home at this time .

    Also they could be sued by staff and parents if a child gets ill from Covid as they are splitting the students prioritising the health of mainstream students by keeping them at home and havind children with additional needs in schools, especially with the NPHET advice of 5 January.


  • #1466
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,032 ✭✭✭daheff


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Where is anyone refusing to go to work?

    If they are told to go to the school to teach and don't that would be refusing to go to work (at least in the private sector).

    In regards to it being a safe work place, if the government are saying it is (relatively) safe to return, then it is from a health & safety perspective.


  • #1467
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    km79 wrote: »
    What’s being said ? Are these regional meetings ?

    Two branch and three district. Currently listening to a neighbouring branch on zoom.

    The anger is palpable


  • #1468
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    khalessi wrote: »
    Actually we also legally have a right to a safe working environment under the law so it would be up to the BOM if they have the courage to not open for H&S reasons, which would not be unreasonable considering .CMO beseeching people to stay at home at this time .

    Also they could be sued by staff and parents if a child gets ill from Covid as they are splitting the students prioritising the health of mainstream students by keeping them at home and havind children with additional needs in schools, especially with the NPHET advice of 5 January.

    I thought it had been established with the Claremorris school that BOM don't have the power to decide that, and schools can't close unless told to by department of health?


  • #1469
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    daheff wrote: »
    If they are told to go to the school to teach and don't that would be refusing to go to work (at least in the private sector).

    In regards to it being a safe work place, if the government are saying it is (relatively) safe to return, then it is from a health & safety perspective.

    It's, buts and maybes. So you can confirm that we aren't refusing to go to work. I highly suspect this will either be severely watered down or abandoned.


  • #1470
    Summer2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    daheff wrote: »

    In regards to it being a safe work place, if the government are saying it is (relatively) safe to return, then it is from a health & safety perspective.

    If they say it is safe then it’s safe? Because the govt have been such a shining beacon of factual information during this whole pandemic. Come off it will you. The virus has infected every corner of the country with some counties having 1 in 10 people positive or a close contact right now. If it was safe to reopen for special needs children then how is it not safe to allow all children back?
    Use your own brain and stop listening to the Gospel according to Norma Foley.


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  • #1471
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    daheff wrote: »
    If they are told to go to the school to teach and don't that would be refusing to go to work (at least in the private sector).

    In regards to it being a safe work place, if the government are saying it is (relatively) safe to return, then it is from a health & safety perspective.

    I will be so bold as to say opening schools/keeping them open has been an economical/political decision in the past, and I doubt things change much in that regard.

    If Government was all about the importance of educating our children, then where has the proper funding been for our schools and especially special needs these last decades. Please.


This discussion has been closed.
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