Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 17-01-2021 02:39PM

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1350798916439126018?s=09

am_zarathustra · 17-01-2021 02:48PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1350798916439126018?s=09

The fact Aoife is out talking now is something we should all be paying attention to, her main concern is with regards to mutation rates, on which she is correct and she actively researchs in the area! Molecular clock theory is solid science, the higher the infection rates the more mutations we will see, its in everyone's interest to keep numbers low before the vaccinations are fully embedded.

The numbers currently are also a complete fallacy, given the r numbers you typically see, even being generous and assuming for every one symptomatic and tests case only one other is infected (but not added due to lack of contact tracing) any number we see before full contact tracing can be doubled very conservatively! A leaving cert maths student would be expected to spot this collection bias.

I can't see over half my 6th year class returning if they recklessly open the 1st, they just couldn't justify the risks to their families. They are unbelievable online at the moment, 90% attendence in live classes last week, work is being submitted and corrected, continuing this to midterm would be fine. Not ideal but fine

Mendoza · 17-01-2021 03:44PM

The Wordress wrote: »

Another hole I see in their plan...

I work in an ASD class which is attached to a mainstream school. My class will return at full capacity on Thursday with all pupils pesent and 2 SNAs, along with the other special classes in my school.

If I was working in a special school, my same ASD class pupils would be attending on alternate days only.

We still have a large staff attending school but because we don't have the differentiation of being called a Special School, we have to attend at full whack!

That doesn't seem fair to me.

I'd imagine it's actually harder for you guys. As you haven't the support from other members of staff that you would get in a special school.

I don't even imagine the students are all that much integrated. It's "inclusion" in so far that you're attached to the building.

If what you're saying is the case I feel for you. My mate has the same issues and he's got kids that have far more challenging behaviour than mine.

beggars_bush · 17-01-2021 03:49PM

It is divide and conquer.
this decision is pitting the INTO against Forsa and members within INTO against each other.

Is it fair that one cohort of teachers in a school must return and face much higher contacts on a daily basis?
and the others get to stay at home where it is safer?

surely there are grounds for discrimination here?

penny piper · 17-01-2021 03:59PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

It is divide and conquer.
this decision is pitting the INTO against Forsa and members within INTO against each other.

Is it fair that one cohort of teachers in a school must return and face much higher contacts on a daily basis?
and the others get to stay at home where it is safer?

surely there are grounds for discrimination here?

I think Norma Foley has done this throughout putting unions against unions...teachers against teachers.....trying to change public opinion..

i feel extremely sorry for the sna/teachers who may have to go back to work this week...

My question would be to special needs parents.......How bad does this pandemic have to be before they would expect teachers/sna not to come into school to teach/mind their children? We can all see how dangerous this situation is at the moment.

Locotastic · 17-01-2021 04:02PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

It is divide and conquer.
this decision is pitting the INTO against Forsa and members within INTO against each other.

Is it fair that one cohort of teachers in a school must return and face much higher contacts on a daily basis?
and the others get to stay at home where it is safer?

surely there are grounds for discrimination here?

Clutching at straws, on what grounds would there be discrimination?

They have different roles, so no.

In that case will we have parents of mainstream students crying discrimination, again no.

beggars_bush · 17-01-2021 04:05PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Clutching at straws, on what grounds would there be discrimination?

They have different roles, so no.

In that case will we have parents of mainstream students crying discrimination, again no.

imagine two different sets of employees in an office
one being forced to return by management and head office, the other being allowed work from home due to public health reasons.

Natterjack from Kerry · 17-01-2021 04:08PM

Intra and inter union discord is entirely due to such disfunctional unions, and that many members abhor the position of the unions that represents them. They have no need of any machinations from Minister Foley to create such conflict. Some teachers probably genuinely do feel it is the cause, so wedded are they to the distorted thinking and sense of specialness distinct from the rest of the working population.

Natterjack from Kerry · 17-01-2021 04:10PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

imagine two different sets of employees in an office
one being forced to return by management and head office, the other being allowed work from home due to public health reasons.

Yes, it is entirely consistent. The ability to usefully do their jobs from home is the determining factor. Much of the economy is working in this manner of the moment. They expect no less from teachers.

Locotastic · 17-01-2021 04:23PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

imagine two different sets of employees in an office
one being forced to return by management and head office, the other being allowed work from home due to public health reasons.

This has been happening all across the country, if your role can't be done properly from home then you attend your workplace.

This again is nothing new and certainly not a teacher only issue.

If I work in an office doing accounts for a food manufacturer then I can work from home, the factory staff, order pickers and packers and drivers and suppliers can't do their jobs properly from home so they don't work from home.

There are examples of this across all sectors, you need to open your mind a bit and look beyond things like childcare, homeschooling and working from home only effecting teachers.

combat14 · 17-01-2021 04:39PM

it is quite apparent that norma foley is an absolute incompetent dose

khalessi · 17-01-2021 04:47PM

Locotastic wrote: »

This has been happening all across the country, if your role can't be done properly from home then you attend your workplace.

This again is nothing new and certainly not a teacher only issue.

If I work in an office doing accounts for a food manufacturer then I can work from home, the factory staff, order pickers and packers and drivers and suppliers can't do their jobs properly from home so they don't work from home.

There are examples of this across all sectors, you need to open your mind a bit and look beyond things like childcare, homeschooling and working from home only effecting teachers.

If that is the case mainstream SETS can stay home, I am working fine from home but the problem is Norma does not understand the intricacies of the role. There are the children who receive support for Maths English and Dyslexia etc and the children who need addtional support for maybe autism, hard of hearing, down syndrome, blindness etc

Next week if this goes ahead 28 children will not be getting the help they need because I will be in school helping one child. That is not equality.

Each school should be able to judge for themselves whether teachers need to go in. In our case having spoken to their teachers, the children who fall into the second category are coping well online but if they dont want to come in they wont get online help because the teacher usually helping them will have to be in school.

Also if a SET teacher in school gets ill, a mainstream class teacher will have to go in to sub in the school and a sub will be put online with the mainstream class.

It is a mess

zeebre12 · 17-01-2021 04:48PM

I just can't see this being overturned? A few emails to the INTO isn't going to do anything.

Locotastic · 17-01-2021 05:06PM

khalessi wrote: »

It is a mess

It sure is, none of it fair or equal no matter where you're standing.

Very frustrating to see the overall mess we are in, especially when majority of people have been so careful for so long.

Some days I just feel like things are hopeless and then other days I think how lucky we are to have been so far unscathed as a direct result of the virus and economic fallout. Sure is a rollercoaster, the uncertainty is dreadful.

'We're all in this together' takes on a new meaning as we're all up s**t creek at the moment.

khalessi · 17-01-2021 05:08PM

zeebre12 wrote: »

I just can't see this being overturned? A few emails to the INTO isn't going to do anything.

I love they were having "technical issues" with phoneline the other day.

wirelessdude01 · 17-01-2021 05:18PM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Intra and inter union discord is entirely due to such disfunctional unions, and that many members abhor the position of the unions that represents them. They have no need of any machinations from Minister Foley to create such conflict. Some teachers probably genuinely do feel it is the cause, so wedded are they to the distorted thinking and sense of specialness distinct from the rest of the working population.

Well done. Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you rob it from someone's Facebook or Twitter? It is so original. 0/10 for effort.

km79 · 17-01-2021 05:24PM

combat14 wrote: »

it is quite apparent that norma foley is an absolute incompetent dose

A stubborn dangerous one

Natterjack from Kerry · 17-01-2021 05:26PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well done. Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you rob it from someone's Facebook or Twitter? It is so original. 0/10 for effort.

I think for lack of originality, nothing tops recycling the "0/10" score trope. You certainly didn't come up with that one yourself.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 17-01-2021 05:34PM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Some teachers probably genuinely do feel it is the cause, so wedded are they to the distorted thinking and sense of specialness distinct from the rest of the working population.

Ah shur they're to be pitied. Can't all be as enlightened as people with real jobs.

The Wordress · 17-01-2021 05:46PM

I have counted up, including

SEN pupils/SNAs/special class teachers/SETs and their pupils/bus escorts/bus drivers/ancillary staff and principal...

60 of our staff and pupils will be returning to school on Thursday with no alternate days as we are not a special school.

If we all have an average of 4 close contacts from our family alone, that is a lot of close contacts to be mixing in a relatively small school building.

We also will be sharing a lot of the same resources, equipment and facilities- OT room, sensory room, swing room, toilets etc.

They are all deep cleaned on a regular basis!!!

irishproduce · 17-01-2021 05:48PM

the corpo wrote: »

You know, I hope people in NPHET and Government outside the Department of Education get to see evidence of how home schooling is working this time.

Last time was a firefighting mess, but this time, and I know it's subjective to my experience and those of my friends and family, but home schooling is going about as well it could. The engagement the school is providing is giving my wife and I time to breath and facilitate our own work.

The Department have an itch to score points for themselves and get the kids back in regardless, but my kids are doing a whole lot better, both mentally and with their education, than last March. Keeping them at home is a weapon in the fight against this virus. If it can be further utilised, I hope it is.

I fully understand that there are many families who aren't finding it easier, but rather than ram them all back in, maybe they could look at broader, more inventive solutions...

Unfortunately there isn't very much "teaching" of new material going on. It's rehashing content they children have been over already.
If they were in school the teacher would be explaining new content and taking the children through new information that hasn't been covered yet.
It is likely a lot of parents, particularly of children who may have been young when starting, will seek to keep the child back when sept comes around.
This nonsense is irreversible and children are losing out.

Teachers should be rowing in behind the best plan the department and government can facilitate and if it does t work after trying then reexamine.
All I'm seeing on here is teachers almost militarised in their union talk and slapping down both the minister and the department who pays their wages.

Seems nothing is worth trying.
We'll it's the kids who are paying. They're not getting a proper education. They're getting a stop gap which unfortunately is not good enough.

wirelessdude01 · 17-01-2021 05:53PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Unfortunately there isn't very much "teaching" of new material going on. It's rehashing content they children have been over already.
If they were in school the teacher would be explaining new content and taking the children through new information that hasn't been covered yet.
It is likely a lot of parents, particularly of children who may have been young when starting, will seek to keep the child back when sept comes around.
This nonsense is irreversible and children are losing out.

Teachers should be rowing in behind the best plan the department and government can facilitate and if it does t work after trying then reexamine.
All I'm seeing on here is teachers almost militarised in their union talk and slapping down both the minister and the department who pays their wages.

Seems nothing is worth trying.
We'll it's the kids who are paying. They're not getting a proper education. They're getting a stop gap which unfortunately is not good enough.

Not the case with my class. Feedback from my parents confirms they are happy that progression and new learning is occurring.

km79 · 17-01-2021 05:58PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Unfortunately there isn't very much "teaching" of new material going on. It's rehashing content they children have been over already.
If they were in school the teacher would be explaining new content and taking the children through new information that hasn't been covered yet.
It is likely a lot of parents, particularly of children who may have been young when starting, will seek to keep the child back when sept comes around.
This nonsense is irreversible and children are losing out.

Teachers should be rowing in behind the best plan the department and government can facilitate and if it does t work after trying then reexamine.
All I'm seeing on here is teachers almost militarised in their union talk and slapping down both the minister and the department who pays their wages.

Seems nothing is worth trying.
We'll it's the kids who are paying. They're not getting a proper education. They're getting a stop gap which unfortunately is not good enough.

This is not the case in either the school I teach in or the primary school my son goes to
Based on the comments here it is not the case in most schools

Have you contacted your child’s school? I am assuming you are a parent of a school going child as it is not clear from your post if you are ?

Natterjack from Kerry · 17-01-2021 06:03PM

The Wordress wrote: »

If we all have an average of 4 close contacts from our family alone, that is a lot of close contacts to be mixing in a relatively small school building.

Why are you bringing four of your family into the school building with you ?

the corpo · 17-01-2021 06:06PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Unfortunately there isn't very much "teaching" of new material going on. It's rehashing content they children have been over already.

Untrue and an unfair sweeping generalisation. In March, the curriculum had mostly been covered, and revision was where they were naturally at.

The Department instructed that this time the schools must provide continuity of learning, and so far my children are still on topic and appear to be moving through the curriculum as they would have been in school. It's a house of cards and may come crashing down, but right now I couldn't ask for more.

It's 100% not going to be as good as if they were in school, but it's a nonsense to describe it as a nonsense.

downthemiddle · 17-01-2021 06:09PM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Why are you bringing four of your family into the school building with you ?

No wonder you are such a fan of Norma Foley. Did she teach you comprehension?

E36Ross · 17-01-2021 06:10PM

More rumours from Buzz.ie :rolleyes:

https://www.buzz.ie/news/schools-re-opening-could-be-pushed-back-to-february-22nd-sources-say-412609

"Meetings conducted at the Department of Health this week settled on a preliminary date of February 22, for the return of all children to school."

I really can't understand why they can't publish clear messages rather than everything half arsed leaking through the media.

km79 · 17-01-2021 06:13PM

the corpo wrote: »

It's 100% not going to be as good as if they were in school, but it's a nonsense to describe it as a nonsense.

I would have said this last March 100% but I am wondering about it this time around
School has been rubbish for kids this year.
No extra curr
Wearing masks
Hand sanitizing
Cold rooms etc

I wonder if a lot of them are not enjoying it more at home now . Obviously not forever but until the mid term ?
This is why I think the ISSU screaming for the cancellation of the LC are doing so loudly for the benefit of the vocal minority as was the case last year.
I did not see any survey where they sought the views of ALL the Leaving Certs they say they represent

TTLF · 17-01-2021 06:26PM

That rumour of the 22nd is interesting.

They once again want to bring in 6th years by February 1st, and I know once again, that there's going to be complete backlash from this. If we're still on the 2000-3000+ cases a day trend by then I will not be going in at my own expense, my health is my wealth, not some fecky exam. :pac:

Lets see how this all plays out...

Locotastic · 17-01-2021 06:26PM

km79 wrote: »

This is not the case in either the school I teach in or the primary school my son goes to
Based on the comments here it is not the case in most schools

Have you contacted your child’s school? I am assuming you are a parent of a school going child as it is not clear from your post if you are ?

It is the case in our primary school and I've contacted the teacher to tell them that the art projects and filler work assigned won't be getting done (same more or less material as what was being given last March).

We'll cover the basics as best we can and they can choose what extra things they want to do themselves.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Comments

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01