General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 04:21PM

I think Grealish time in the championship has helped him greatly ,he used to seem light but now he is a really strong in possession ,
Is there another player who is a good at carrying the ball in the league ?

I think the issue with Grealish is similar to the one Bruno had before United pulled the trigger,
That is they are super players but almost t inside forwards or midfielders kind of in-between so the top teams don't really play a system to fit them in,
Couthino was similar outrageously skilled player but the problem was where to fit him in without weaking your teams structure,

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 04:21PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ah he really hasn’t. He’s not been at his own personal best, but still top scorer in the league.

He’s had a poor past 2 weeks (as has the whole team), but as a season he’s still having a pretty decent one.

Bar his cameo against Palace (he got 2) I think he has been noticeable out of form ,

~Rebel~ · 15-01-2021 04:29PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Bar his cameo against Palace (he got 2) I think he has been noticeable out of form ,

Think you're being really harsh on him to be honest, which I understand as a pool fan, as we've seen him play at a level above this. But, for example, that Palace game was the 7th game in a row where he scored or assisted. And he's currently averaging exactly a goal or assist per game in the league. Hard to leave a fella with numbers like that out of the conversation, especially when he's currently the league's top scorer too.

I think KDB and Salah both have a whole extra level that sets them apart from the rest, but neither are quite hitting their best yet. KDB is doing better, but even he isn't quite back to where he was a few years ago. Though part of that is definitely down to not having an in-form Sterling, Sane, and Aguero to play with this season so far.

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 04:32PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Think you're being really harsh on him to be honest, which I understand as a pool fan, as we've seen him play at a level above this. But, for example, that Palace game was the 7th game in a row where he scored or assisted. And he's currently averaging exactly a goal or assist per game in the league. Hard to leave a fella with numbers like that out of the conversation, especially when he's currently the league's top scorer too.

I think KDB and Salah both have a whole extra level that sets them apart from the rest, but neither are quite hitting their best yet. KDB is doing better, but even he isn't quite back to where he was a few years ago. Though part of that is definitely down to not having an in-form Sterling, Sane, and Aguero to play with this season so far.

Yes probably the last 3 games clouding the judgement ,
His 2 sitter against Newcastle where so unlike him ,

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 05:26PM

Kane has clearly been the best player in the league this season.
11 goals making him second highest goal scorer.
11 assists making him highest player with assists.
Add to this his defensive work for the team, he is a superior all round player compared to any other.

TitianGerm · 15-01-2021 05:36PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Kane has clearly been the best player in the league this season.
11 goals making him second highest goal scorer.
11 assists making him highest player with assists.
Add to this his defensive work for the team, he is a superior all round player compared to any other.

Kane is been overlooked in preference to Bruno because Spurs aren't winning as many games as United.

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 05:52PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Kane is been overlooked in preference to Bruno because Spurs aren't winning as many games as United.

Possibly which is a bit silly as we are talking about the best player in the league.
The stats tell you he’s the best.
He’s on his way to being the best striker of all time in the league also.

15-01-2021 05:57PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Possibly which is a bit silly as we are talking about the best player in the league.
The stats tell you he’s the best.
He’s on his way to being the best striker of all time in the league also.

The stats other that his team winning games. The objective of the game.

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 06:01PM

Liam O wrote: »

The stats other that his team winning games. The objective of the game.

So Kane’s not the best player in the league because he team aren’t winning games at the moment? Is that what your saying?

TitianGerm · 15-01-2021 06:03PM

Liam O wrote: »

The stats other that his team winning games. The objective of the game.

The objective is to win the league. Something Bruno hasn't managed in the PL either so I wouldn't be excluding Kane on that either.

Both players are playing extremely well at the moment.

CSF · 15-01-2021 06:15PM

adaminho wrote: »

Progression stats are not an indicator either.

https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1349712035467173892?s=19

It’s more stats in terms of carries into the box that you’d be looking at for that position.

CSF · 15-01-2021 06:17PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan so it pains me to say it but i'm sorry there is NO question Bruno is IN the debate for best player in the league to say other wise is just stupid ,

I understand you may not think he the actual best as there are few good options but he is certainly in the conversation

He has had a better season than any Liverpool player that is for sure Bruno , KDB, Grealish and Kane the only ones who are even an option's so far this season,

My opinion is that he is far enough away from De Bruyne in particular to say that he is in the discussion. Just because you are amongst the best players in the league doesn’t mean you are in the conversation for the best IMO.

In terms of what these guys can do on the field, De Bruyne is clear ahead of Fernandes IMO.

bucketybuck · 15-01-2021 06:22PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Both players are playing extremely well at the moment.

Fernandes isn't, and I'm surprised that more people haven't commented on that.

Watch most of United's recent games and you'll come away thinking that Bruno hasn't played well, in terms of general performance. As long as the goals and assists are there nobody will care but personally I think he is off the boil and I hope he picks up again soon.

CSF · 15-01-2021 06:24PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Kane has clearly been the best player in the league this season.
11 goals making him second highest goal scorer.
11 assists making him highest player with assists.
Add to this his defensive work for the team, he is a superior all round player compared to any other.

I don’t think it’s clear. His productivity has been really good, but I think both him and Son have to take some responsibility for the fact that Spurs attack can look really blunt quite often.

When Kane and Son are on fire, they’re on fire and seem to create their goals in tandem but you would watch the Spurs attack for about 70 minutes a game and think they’re f*cking awful.

Some of this is the Mourinho system, and both Kane and Son absolutely belong in the player of the year conversation this year, but I definitely don’t think it’s clearly them.

15-01-2021 06:40PM

Salah has more goals than either of them.

Son is a better player than Fernandez surely? He'd be even better if he had a more attack minded manager.

Lucas Hood · 15-01-2021 06:44PM

6 wrote: »

Salah has more goals than either of them.

Son is a better player than Fernandez surely? He'd be even better if he had a more attack minded manager.

Son has played under a more attacking manager before and never hit these kind of numbers so early in season before.

Mourinho style suits him.

adaminho · 15-01-2021 06:45PM

CSF wrote: »

It’s more stats in terms of carries into the box that you’d be looking at for that position.

Which is why you cant use stats to use prove anything! Two of those are centre halves and the other 3 are attacking Midfielders! It is not a great stat to qualify anything with!

CSF · 15-01-2021 06:47PM

adaminho wrote: »

Which is why you cant use stats to use prove anything! Two of those are centre halves and the other 3 are attacking Midfielders! It is not a great stat to qualify anything with!

Yeah I definitely don’t disagree with you on this. Certain stats tell you things and certain stats are actually quite informative. I think xA per 90 is one of those stats that tells you something really specific. It doesn’t tell you who the best player in the world is, but yeah by and large I agree with you.

Fitz* · 15-01-2021 06:54PM

Kane also has the English tax added to him, which will help in deciding POTY.

CSF · 15-01-2021 07:00PM

Fitz* wrote: »

Kane also has the English tax added to him, which will help in deciding POTY.

I think Bruno wins it, and based on that it’s a very narrative driven award by design, I have absolutely no problem with that.

~Rebel~ · 15-01-2021 07:01PM

Fitz* wrote: »

Kane also has the English tax added to him, which will help in deciding POTY.

For the actual real POTY, there's always a recency bias attached, so it's really how players play from here onwards that'll determine it. A good final few months of the season always end up being a lot more important than a good first few months.

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 07:04PM

CSF wrote: »

I don’t think it’s clear. His productivity has been really good, but I think both him and Son have to take some responsibility for the fact that Spurs attack can look really blunt quite often.

When Kane and Son are on fire, they’re on fire and seem to create their goals in tandem but you would watch the Spurs attack for about 70 minutes a game and think they’re f*cking awful.

Some of this is the Mourinho system, and both Kane and Son absolutely belong in the player of the year conversation this year, but I definitely don’t think it’s clearly them.

Forgetting about son for a minute If you look back through the last 4/5 years of the PL Kane has consistently been top class. Even when he has had a prolonged injury.

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 07:07PM

CSF wrote: »

I think Bruno wins it, and based on that it’s a very narrative driven award by design, I have absolutely no problem with that.

How and why does Bruno beat Kane?
In what department?
Goals scored? NO.
Assists? NO.
Defensive quality’s? NO.
previous golden boots? NO.
player of the month awards? NO.

CSF · 15-01-2021 07:19PM

tom1ie wrote: »

How and why does Bruno beat Kane?
In what department?
Goals scored? NO.
Assists? NO.
Defensive quality’s? NO.
previous golden boots? NO.
player of the month awards? NO.

I think it’s fair to say that based on the criteria you listed, we look at football completely different and would only end up driving ourselves crazy arguing this.

Like I actually agree with you that Kane has been better than Bruno this season, but still. Have a good evening anyway.

tom1ie · 15-01-2021 07:20PM

CSF wrote: »

I think it’s fair to say that based on the criteria you listed, we look at football completely different and would only end up driving ourselves crazy arguing this.

Like I actually agree with you that Kane has been better than Bruno this season, but still. Have a good evening.

Yeah fair enough if you want to argue that Bruno is a better player even though you admit Kane is a better player, that just leaves me confused so yep have a good one!

CSF · 15-01-2021 07:23PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah fair enough if you want to argue that Bruno is a better player even though you admit Kane is a better player, that just leaves me confused so yep have a good one!

I mean I literally clarified in my original post why I thought Bruno was a suitable candidate for this particular award.

15-01-2021 07:23PM

tom1ie wrote: »

How and why does Bruno beat Kane?
In what department?
Goals scored? NO.
Assists? NO.
Defensive quality’s? NO.
previous golden boots? NO.
player of the month awards? NO.

Be hard for Bruno to win a golden boot playing in midfield in Portugal and Spain.

His team have the most points in the league since he joined if that helps. A team he is the defacto leader of.

Unsure what defensive qualities you can measure.

Look, I love Kane as a player.he is the best striker in the league and probably second to Lewandowski in Europe as a pure striker. This is not the hill to die on. You don't win manager of the month because you made some great substitutions and your tactics looked good. You get it for winning games. Players winning games is their number 1 objective. United are on the crest of a wave now off Bruno's back and have a hype machine in full drive. Same as earlier in the season it was all Son and Kane. These things go in cycles.

Mitch Connor · 15-01-2021 07:27PM

Bruno can only win, imo, if united are still in the running for the league when the voting happens - and if he wins it, it will be because he is considered a massive reason why an average side is in the running. the narrative we see everywhere is that without Bruno United would be nowhere nd Ole would be sacked. So if that is what people think, if United win or are close to winning (as the season won't be over) winning the league then Bruno HAS to be POTY. If you are seen to be singlehandedly winning the league, what more can you do?

Lucas Hood · 15-01-2021 07:29PM

tom1ie wrote: »

Forgetting about son for a minute If you look back through the last 4/5 years of the PL Kane has consistently been top class. Even when he has had a prolonged injury.

I bet your have Kane PJs on and bedcovers and curtains in your bedroom.

Kane top class when he's injured.!!

adaminho · 15-01-2021 07:30PM

This is the problem with stats! Anyone can pull out a stat and say X player is the best! I would say the best two players in the league right now are Salah and KDB. I would say that as both have a record in the league going back a few years. The form players this year are Bruno, Salah and Kdb and Kane!

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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