Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

MerlinSouthDub · 14-01-2021 11:50PM

Interesting comprehensive study in the US here, from the CDC

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/covid-19-outbreaks-aren-t-driven-by-in-person-classes-cdc-says

“Disease rates in counties where in-person learning is available for school-aged children and adolescents is similar to areas where classes are entirely online, according to a report by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It concludes schools should be the last to close, and the first to re-open.”

eviltwin · 14-01-2021 11:53PM

History Queen wrote: »

There are some absolute animals out there. As if teaching and learning online isn't intimidating enough you have assholes like this crashing online lessons.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-alerted-after-inappropriate-men-got-into-online-class-for-school-children-39970606.html?__twitter_impression=true

How does something like that even happen?

downthemiddle · 14-01-2021 11:53PM

joefuss1986 wrote: »

Don't really get the outrage over this myself. Would normal not be the kids who don't have additional needs, aka not the norm.

If you don't get it please don't comment on it. Reflect on how insulting your comment would be to a parent of a child with additional needs.

A Law · 14-01-2021 11:56PM

anais wrote: »

Come into my prefab, one ageing laptop. No wifi. Please don't give us all that claptrap about 'being prepared'. They collected books on Monday, we prepped in school two days last week, online for one. Kids were shown how to use the platform before Christmas. I have 3 kids to homeschool , on my own. I work from 9 to 7, with breaks for meals. We are just surviving, like everyone else

We sent our books home before Christmas, before Halloween too. We've been using Teams since September. Our principal organised teachers to covers as we did training provided by two teachers in September.

We had a staff meeting on the Friday for an hour and we're ready to go on the Monday. A lot of it is down to principals being proactive and for teachers to be prepared for something that was likely to come. We had all our books home and I had my planning done for the next fortnight.

I'd still rather be in school as I've two kids running around when I'm on a team's meeting for 2hours working through subjects but everyone knew the department couldn't be relied upon. Granted the ICT is a problem for some. Again our principal has seen that we all have a decent spec desktop that we can bring home.

A Law · 14-01-2021 11:58PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

If you don't get it please don't comment on it. Reflect on how insulting your comment would be to a parent of a child with additional needs.

I have a son with additional needs. If he was normal why would I say he has additional needs? Maybe I need to get more with the faux outraged crew.

History Queen · 14-01-2021 11:58PM

eviltwin wrote: »

How does something like that even happen?

In all honesty I don't know. It's just bloody vile.

A Law · 14-01-2021 11:59PM

eviltwin wrote: »

How does something like that even happen?

That shouldnt happen on teams if the meeting are set up correctly.

rob316 · 15-01-2021 12:18AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

If you don't get it please don't comment on it. Reflect on how insulting your comment would be to a parent of a child with additional needs.

I'm a parent of a special needs child and I don't find it insulting. Is it PC? Probably not but "normal" is something I have often found myself calling neuro typical kids when comparing to my son. A load of nothing for the permanently outraged.

15-01-2021 12:46AM

joefuss1986 wrote: »

Don't really get the outrage over this myself. Would normal not be the kids who don't have additional needs, aka not the norm.

People need something to complain about.

eviltwin wrote: »

How does something like that even happen?

I can only assume it will be fairly easy to find the culprits, though, at least.

Bananaleaf · 15-01-2021 01:11AM

eviltwin wrote: »

How does something like that even happen?

I'll tell you how it happens. Inadequate training. This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I said numerous times on this forum and on others that we were never properly trained in TEAMS.

Now, some people will use this as an example of how lazy and entitled teachers are - "why can't they just look up a few videos on it themselves?" When the real question should be "How can such a huge organisation such as an ETB, who is in the business of children, not be on top of their game when it comes to the protection of said children?"

It's amazing how many people don't grasp that having been in a corporate Teams meeting (where you are most likely a relatively inactive participant) is nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE near the same thing as running up to 9 successive, interactive classrooms with 30 (often times underage) participants who also, I might add, have had no training in the platform either

It is beyond unfortunate that this happened to the poor children. It should never have happened. But you reap what you sow

Edited to add - @eviltwin - my little rant is not directed at you, `not at all. I'm just really angry it came to this. They had plenty of opportunities for this not to happen.

jrosen · 15-01-2021 01:14AM

I’ve never used teams so can’t comment on its use but it’s pretty awful to see that happen.

zeebre12 · 15-01-2021 01:15AM

I'm a SEN teacher in a primary school. I take children out of the class for support. Does this mean I will be in school next week?

Bananaleaf · 15-01-2021 01:18AM

zeebre12 wrote: »

I'm a SEN teacher in a primary school. I take children out of the class for support. Does this mean I will be in school next week?

Are they in a mainstream school/classroom with SNA access and you take them out for withdrawal in certain subjects? If so, I would think not.

zeebre12 · 15-01-2021 01:22AM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Are they in a mainstream school/classroom with SNA access and you take them out for withdrawal in certain subjects? If so, I would think not.

Yes. They are in mainstream and I take them out for maths/language/social etc. If not, what do they mean by support for SEN in mainstream (in school support)

Murple · 15-01-2021 01:29AM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Are they in a mainstream school/classroom with SNA access and you take them out for withdrawal in certain subjects? If so, I would think not.

The arrangements released today have said that children with complex needs/significant additional news, those at risk of regression, that attend mainstream classes should be brought back with SET and SNA supporting them in school.
It’s no longer just restricted to special schools and special classes within mainstream. It now also includes children who are in mainstream classes but have additional needs.

Bananaleaf · 15-01-2021 01:34AM

zeebre12 wrote: »

Yes. They are in mainstream and I take them out for maths/language/social etc. If not, what do they mean by support for SEN in mainstream (in school support)

I'll start by saying I don't know. I'm secondary. But the article says that it is for students with significant needs in mainstream. I would imagine, for example, that a child with Down Syndrome might fit into that category, but not necessarily a student with ADHD who might have withdrawal but more for movement breaks and attention difficulties?

It would depend on the diagnosis your student has I suppose

hesaidshesaid · 15-01-2021 01:36AM

Murple wrote: »

The arrangements released today have said that children with complex needs/significant additional news, those at risk of regression, that attend mainstream classes should be brought back with SET and SNA supporting them in school.
It’s no longer just restricted to special schools and special classes within mainstream. It now also includes children who are in mainstream classes but have additional needs.

They will have to be very specific about who qualifies for this in mainstream. I'm SET for 6th class, I take 16 kids for maths and English. Currently they have a daily class zoom call, a daily learning support zoom call with me and all-day interaction on Seesaw. They are all engaging and online every day. If anything they are more focused than they would be in school, they like the zoom calls as they get to see friends.

We have the most cases per million in the world. Remote learning is far from ideal but sending kids back to schools in these circumstances is madness in my opinion.

Bananaleaf · 15-01-2021 01:37AM

Murple wrote: »

It now also includes children who are in mainstream classes but have additional needs.

have additional needs or significantly additional? I might sound like I'm being pedantic but it is an important distinction, especially if this is to come into secondary schools where the SEN model has completely changed and you can essentially have any student accessing SET hours, regardless of having (or not having) a diagnosis

Murple · 15-01-2021 01:39AM

joefuss1986 wrote: »

Don't really get the outrage over this myself. Would normal not be the kids who don't have additional needs, aka not the norm.

You may not ‘get’ the outrage but the simple fact is that it has long been unacceptable to term children ‘normal’ and ‘special needs‘ just like children with additional needs are no longer called ‘retarded’. Retarded in itself means delayed or slowed down so some might say it’s not offensive as a child’s development might be slowed down compared to their peers but it’s recognised as being an offensive term so is not used.
A Minister tasked with the very area of Inclusion and Special Education should know better and should be so used to correct and acceptable terminology that she doesn’t have slip ups. I would also think that someone should only be put in this role if it’s something they passionately believe in and understand. I don’t believe the current minister has any real investment in the role.
If you term one group ‘normal children‘, you are implying that the other group are abnormal. That is offensive.

Murple · 15-01-2021 01:44AM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

have additional needs or significantly additional? I might sound like I'm being pedantic but it is an important distinction, especially if this is to come into secondary schools where the SEN model has completely changed and you can essentially have any student accessing SET hours, regardless of having (or not having) a diagnosis

Totally agree. And it will become even more difficult when you have a parent wanting their child out of the house so they can work, pushing for their child to be allowed back and their child may have a support plan or even be support plan plus but wouldn’t be considered as having significant additional needs.
A child may have SNA access but be managing fine with online learning they can go at their own pace and don’t have the distraction of other children or classroom noise.
I can see this creating a lot of headaches for principals and SET.

Icyseanfitz · 15-01-2021 10:45AM

Murple wrote: »

The arrangements released today have said that children with complex needs/significant additional news, those at risk of regression, that attend mainstream classes should be brought back with SET and SNA supporting them in school.
It’s no longer just restricted to special schools and special classes within mainstream. It now also includes children who are in mainstream classes but have additional needs.

As an SNA, here we go again with complete uncertainty ffs. working remotely quite well at the moment with all my mainstream students, yet we could be all be back next week, what a ****show

Baggly · 15-01-2021 10:58AM

Baggly wrote: »

Mod

Take a week off from this thread.

Mod

Khalessi's threadban lifted after discussion via PM.

Mrsmum · 15-01-2021 10:58AM

Did I hear the INTO guy on Primetime saying that his expectation was that every school in the country would be open towards the end of next week for children with extra needs ? I was surprised how upbeat he was about all schools being back 1st Feb too.

jrosen · 15-01-2021 11:06AM

I just wish until agreements were made and details have been hashed out they would keep their mouths shut.

downthemiddle · 15-01-2021 11:08AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Did I hear the INTO guy on Primetime saying that his expectation was that every school in the country would be open towards the end of next week for children with extra needs ? I was surprised how upbeat he was about all schools being back 1st Feb too.

I suspect that there is an agreement to bump school staff up the priority list for vaccination to number six on the list, keyworkers.

scooby77 · 15-01-2021 11:19AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Did I hear the INTO guy on Primetime saying that his expectation was that every school in the country would be open towards the end of next week for children with extra needs ? I was surprised how upbeat he was about all schools being back 1st Feb too.

I'd be involved with INTO at local and regional levels. What I've heard informally ( last night and this morning) about yesterday's meeting is that the expectation is, at primary anyway, that schools will fully reopen on 1st February unless NPHET block it. Seemingly they are unlikely to do so.

khalessi · 15-01-2021 11:23AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Did I hear the INTO guy on Primetime saying that his expectation was that every school in the country would be open towards the end of next week for children with extra needs ? I was surprised how upbeat he was about all schools being back 1st Feb too.

Yeah and can anyone explain why Norma has been quoting a letter from NPHET 5th January as saying schools are safe as her justification for this. Yet the same letter has in bold, that schools should remain closed due to very high community transmission? Why didn't INTO challenge this?

penny piper · 15-01-2021 11:29AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Did I hear the INTO guy on Primetime saying that his expectation was that every school in the country would be open towards the end of next week for children with extra needs ? I was surprised how upbeat he was about all schools being back 1st Feb too.

I watched primetown and was disgusted by what the into guy had to say...

What exactly has changed in two weeks and will change in the next two weeks that would warrant a full return of secondary schools?
Cases are skyhigh and likely to stay that way...hse is overwhelmed at the moment and for the next who knows how many weeks....

I understood the end reason for closing schools originally was not that schools were not safe places (everyone knows different apart from norma foley) but to stop 1.1 million people walking about ....

Now seemingly since into have been consulted (as this union guy said) all is well
....It's just like this Union is completely selling it's members down the river...
Have into forgot all their members that had consulted them about their worries?

Next came Ann Piggot who said a LC would be a "normal LC" but they'd like to see adjustments....? then how is it a normal LC

amacca · 15-01-2021 11:33AM

khalessi wrote: »

Yeah and can anyone explain why Norma has been quoting a letter from NPHET 5th January as saying schools are safe as her justification for this. Yet the same letter has in bold, that schools should remain closed due to very high community transmission? Why didn't INTO challenge this?

That would be my main point too...when they say schools are safe they should be nailed immediately with

Are they safe when there are high levels of community transmission?.....and made answer it too.

Some other associated points would be are they safe when students don't follow safety procedures and repeatedly get away with doing so....re:mask wearing and maintaining distance etc........could you give a guarantee that the minute a student (at post primary level anyway) steps out of line/repeatedly doesn't have the self discipline to obey the rules they can be sent home until they do comply.....and are you sure the numbers are correct given how you fluffed them when it came to schools to suit the narrative.

jrosen · 15-01-2021 11:34AM

Are they looking at the numbers and patterns? And assuming by feb 1st cases will be down to a manageable level, pressure eased and icu beds freed up?

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01