Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

1…164165167169170…333

Comments

  • #4982
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yes, this has been forcefully stressed time and again here but there is never a universal practical solution offered to it.

    A universal practical solution of what? It's quite simple. Don't be a dick. If you've indulged in the restaurants, bars, family gatherings in large quantity then stay away from vulnerable people. It wasn't a cart blanche. Of course people get it and have no idea what could of caused it. Totally not their fault.

    If someone acted the bollix with their anti mask, anti vac sh!te, was in 7 pubs on a Sunday and passed it on to a family member then they'd be called on their ****.

    There are those among us who are wilfully ignorant and care nothing for the outcome of society. It's ironic that they are also the ones shouting the loudest when they are on the PUP or can't pay their mortgage.

    We've seen it here. It's terribly rude to show someone what they said in December and contrast it now with the "let's move on" argument. Fvck that. The fact is they are damaging the health service, their own personal finances, their children's education, the life expectancy of their elderly relatives and the economy.

    Of course it's someone else's fault.


  • #4983
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just blame the pangolin

    It's not about pinning things to an individual.

    If 2 people flew home to Ireland via Belfast during Christmas week and one was asymptomatic and passed covid onto their elderly parents, and the other wasn't so no one caught covid from them, it doesn't make the first person worse than the second person. They both behaved in a way that was risky and selfish, and that has been generally responsible for much of the increase in figures.


  • #4984
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    A universal practical solution of what? It's quite simple. Don't be a dick. If you've indulged in the restaurants, bars, family gatherings in large quantity then stay away from vulnerable people. It wasn't a cart blanche. Of course people get it and have no idea what could of caused it. Totally not their fault.

    If someone acted the bollix with their anti mask, anti vac sh!te, was in 7 pubs on a Sunday and passed it on to a family member then they'd be called on their ****.

    There are those among us who are wilfully ignorant and care nothing for the outcome of society. It's ironic that they are also the ones shouting the loudest when they are on the PUP or can't pay their mortgage.

    We've seen it here. It's terribly rude to show someone what they said in December and contrast it now with the "let's move on" argument. Fvck that. The fact is they are damaging the health service, their only personal finances, their children's education, the life expectancy of their elderly relatives and the economy.

    Of course it's someone else's fault.

    A universal solution is one that can successfully be applied across the board. Vaccination is a good example of that. Your version here still requires compliance. I blame the virus BTW.


  • #4985
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Henley Tangy User wrote: »

    How many people, for instance, are still going into the office to do work that could be done at home because they enjoy the change of scenery, and how many managers are forcing people back into workplaces because they like to feel in control. It is pretty disgraceful th Forsa had to write to all public sector managers asking them to comply with current restrictions.

    That is definitely going on. I can see into an open plan office from my window right now, where tens of people are doing regular desk work un-masked.

    However the google mobility data suggests that WFH is at its highest level since May. Unfortunately this is partly down to school closures. Once they reopen I'm sure many will return to offices. Hopefully it doesn't happen too soon.


  • #4986
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Henley Tangy User wrote: »
    It's not about pinning things to an individual.

    If 2 people flew home to Ireland via Belfast during Christmas week and one was asymptomatic and passed covid onto their elderly parents, and the other wasn't so no one caught covid from them, it doesn't make the first person worse than the second person. They both behaved in a way that was risky and selfish, and that has been generally responsible for much of the increase in figures.
    This type of scenario generation just produces more people to blame. Even if they made a poor call, we'll never track down all cases.


  • Advertisement
  • #4987
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Whatever level restrictions you have in place, I expect adherence is going to look something like this.

    standard-normal-distribution-with-probabilities.png

    Adhering to the recommended restrictions exactly puts you right in the middle. Those to the left are ignoring restrictions to some or other degree. Those to the right are going over and above, maybe because of an elderly family member or an underlying condition.

    The middle point is the important bit. The government set this. People are going to deviate but behaviors associated with a 30% deviation from the set of Level 5 restrictions are very different from a 30% deviation from the set of Level 3 restrictions.

    The actions of individuals over the Christmas obviously got us to where we are now but these individual actions where framed by relaxed restrictions that NPHET advised against.

    Nobody would have be queuing up outside JD Sports for a half an hour, in a long line, at close quarters, if non-essential retail was closed. These JD shoppers weren't deviating from restrictions BTW.

    This idea that a group of selfish, amoral, party animals, who didn't give a sh1t about their grannies, got us here is just self loathing on a national level.

    Humans are imperfect. Some people can't seem to get their head around this.


  • #4988
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    is_that_so wrote: »
    This type of scenario generation just produces more people to blame. Even if they made a poor call, we'll never track down all cases.

    It's not about pinning things to an individual.

    It's about knowing someone is breaking the rules and telling them to go cop themselves on before putting people at risk.


  • #4989
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    It's not about pinning things to an individual.

    It's about knowing someone is breaking the rules and telling them to go cop themselves on before putting people at risk.
    That sounds like a recipe for broken relationships or worse! We can only control what we ourselves do and we are all human with everything that brings.


  • #4990
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,175 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Whatever level restrictions you have in place, I expect adherence is going to look something like this.

    standard-normal-distribution-with-probabilities.png

    Adhering to the recommended restrictions exactly puts you right in the middle. Those to the left are ignoring restrictions to some or other degree. Those to the right are going over and above, maybe because of an elderly family member or an underlying condition.

    The middle point is the important bit. The government set this. People are going to deviate but behaviors associated with a 30% deviation from the set of Level 5 restrictions are very different from a 30% deviation from the set of Level 3 restrictions.

    It's an interesting graph. I wonder how much it's influenced by level of cases. Or how much other peope's perception that others are taking risks makes them be more cautious for instance.

    I think that covid can be such a lottery in terms of how sick people are, how many people they spread it to, whether they get long covid etc and that people's individual circumstances will influence people's perception of risk too.


  • #4991
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Drumpot wrote: »
    It’s kind of similar to what’s going on in USA, with a certain cohort asking for unity after causing an awful lot of trouble for a significant amount of time.. another example of People staunchly against common sense and the dangers of ignorance leading to tragedy. People blindly following a misguided mantra because it suits what they want to believe. As you’d said, this wasn’t rocket science but equally it was not inevitable either.

    I’d like to believe that the people with these views on here are just outliers but I think they represent the views of a lot of people. The government reacted in December to what they believed the people wanted and of course to lobby groups. It’s a shame that as always we will learn nothing from this as a society. No open forums of conversation to discuss why this happened or why so many choose to believe their own bullsh*t.

    I remember in 2007 thinking that the crash was actually needed for proper change in the political arena and the financial servings sector. Neither transpired. I’ve said it again and again, when people refuse to look at their role in something then they will inevitably find somebody/something else to blame. We all do it at times, but equally we are all responsible for state we are in now, some moreso then others. For my part I lack the tolerance or patience to properly engage them so I’m as responsible as everybody else. I have read so much moronic horseh*t in these forums from time to time that I’ve had to post less and less because I don’t want to engage these people whose views I find abhorrent at times . This is a chronic failure of tolerance on my part and serves only to make progressive discussions less probable.

    Another thing I’ve noticed is people desperate to only hear good news and coining the phrase “scaremongering” which is the online equivalent to putting hands in ears and screaming “la la la la, I’m not listening”. Yes some bad news was misinformation but in many cases it didn’t matter , people even wanted actual bad news communicated in a more positive manner. This aversion to bad news is dangerous , makes people very vulnerable to news sources that will pander to their sensitivity’s. It’s a crisis, you don’t need news sugarcoated you need to listen and follow guidelines. The news wouldn’t of been so bad had people STFU and just acted responsibly.

    I also wholeheartedly believe a lot of people are struggling to comprehend that this is a crisis. This is more of an observation of human behavior then a criticism. Maybe this is connected with the “don’t want to listen to bad news” point where people can react in different ways in a crisis. I think this helps explain why some people found it hard to get in line and why some made mistakes. I know people who were not against restrictions but made quite silly decisions , not intentionally belligerent like some of the “braver” individuals in here but none the less risky behavior.

    We’ve all made mistakes and we have all interpreted certain elements of this to suit ourselves to different degrees. Again an open forum to discuss this and what worked and didn’t work and why would be great. It’s not easy because there have been sides on this. I personally find it hard to respect certain people so again I accept I’m as much part of the problem.

    I think forums work best when people try to respond to the post rather than the poster. It would be interesting to run an experiment where a poster's name didn't appear beside their post.


  • Advertisement
  • #4992
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Just blame the pangolin

    But isn't the pangolin a victim too?


  • #4993
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    polesheep wrote: »
    But isn't the pangolin a victim too?

    The pangolin would only be relevant if he/she had a reasoning intellect and could learn from past behaviour not to get eaten again.


  • #4994
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Henley Tangy User wrote: »
    It's not about pinning things to an individual.

    If 2 people flew home to Ireland via Belfast during Christmas week and one was asymptomatic and passed covid onto their elderly parents, and the other wasn't so no one caught covid from them, it doesn't make the first person worse than the second person. They both behaved in a way that was risky and selfish, and that has been generally responsible for much of the increase in figures.

    Why is it presumed that those now in hospital had no part to play? Many of those elderly parents wanted their children to come home for Christmas. Many more of them went to restaurants and pubs.


  • #4995
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That was neither said nor implied in my post. That was all you!

    Apologies if I took you up incorrectly.


  • #4996
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    The pangolin would only be relevant if he/she had a reasoning intellect and could learn from past behaviour not to get eaten again.

    Perhaps they have. Would you eat a pangolin after all this? I'm just waiting for the secret lab to be discovered where the pangolins are hatching viruses to inflict on the humans that have been eating them.


  • #4997
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Whatever level restrictions you have in place, I expect adherence is going to look something like this.

    standard-normal-distribution-with-probabilities.png

    Adhering to the recommended restrictions exactly puts you right in the middle. Those to the left are ignoring restrictions to some or other degree. Those to the right are going over and above, maybe because of an elderly family member or an underlying condition.

    The middle point is the important bit. The government set this. People are going to deviate but behaviors associated with a 30% deviation from the set of Level 5 restrictions are very different from a 30% deviation from the set of Level 3 restrictions.

    The actions of individuals over the Christmas obviously got us to where we are now but these individual actions where framed by relaxed restrictions that NPHET advised against.

    Nobody would have be queuing up outside JD Sports for a half an hour, in a long line, at close quarters, if non-essential retail was closed. These JD shoppers weren't deviating from restrictions BTW.

    This idea that a group of selfish, amoral, party animals, who didn't give a sh1t about their grannies, got us here is just self loathing on a national level.

    Humans are imperfect. Some people can't seem to get their head around this.


    I agree with your analysis. Nobody is suggesting that the extreme end of the spectrum is to blame for all the ills of society but they do contribute.

    I think bog standard stupidity coupled with wishful thinking accounts for the largest effect on the health service.

    "I only went to 3 pubs and met with 4 groups of friends before Christmas"

    They didn't break any rules and that's on the government.

    It was the same in the summer.

    "It's just a casedemic, nothing to worry about. I NEED my holiday in Spain."

    Have the town closes down due to an outbreak.

    Nothing to do with me.

    I followed the rules.

    Either way we are where we are. I hate revisionist history on here and the fact you can't bring it up as it could be classed as uncivil.


    edit: not all distributions are normal. That's kinda why we are in this mess.


  • #4998
    one armed dwarf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    polesheep wrote: »
    I think forums work best when people try to respond to the post rather than the poster. It would be interesting to run an experiment where a poster's name didn't appear beside their post.

    I mean this is how 4chan works and it's hardly the bastion of internet civility :pac:


  • #4999
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Henley Tangy User wrote: »
    I think people are perfectly entitled to speak out about behaviour that is putting others at risk. In fact public disapproval is what changed attitudes on drink driving and other reckless and selfish behaviour. Maybe even a small number of those who went mad over Christmas might read threads like this and change their attitude.

    Oh of course they are Bella. We are all allowed to voice our opinions :)


  • #5000
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    one armed dwarf wrote: »
    I mean this is how 4chan works and it's hardly the bastion of internet civility :pac:

    I was thinking more in terms of how people tend to form sides. It's very evident on this site. You can sometimes see people bend over backwards just to remain in line with those that they have been agreeing with, or not to be seen agreeing with those that they have been disagreeing with. It's strange to see intelligent posters do this.


  • #5001
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Necro wrote: »
    Mod:
    I'm going to nip this in the bud now, both of you cop on and post in a civil manner, what you're doing in these posts is basically sneering at being sneered at. So it's no better than what you're criticising people for doing back in November.

    No need for it from either side really.
    Presumably this means we need no longer expect sneers of bed-wetter, doom-monger, horn-from-cases-getter, etc.?


  • Advertisement
  • #5002
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What is also worth noting is that a virus more transmissive than the common flu types has largely been held at bay in this country and others.

    Surges from time to time but is quickly brought under realitive control after weeks.

    People were always going to die, quite a few were always going to get it but quite a good job has been done and while not perfect the public response here has been among the best in the western world.

    The woe is us craic gets over done on the thread.

    Self pity is not a commendable feature.


  • #5003
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Danzy wrote: »
    What is also worth noting is that a virus more transmissive than the common flu types has largely been held at bay in this country and others.

    Surges from time to time but is quickly brought under realitive control after weeks.

    People were always going to die, quite a few were always going to get it but quite a good job has been done and while not perfect the public response here has been among the best in the western world.

    The woe is us craic gets over done on the thread.

    Self pity is not a commendable feature.

    We had a wilder Christmas than just about any other country in the world.

    The limited restrictions that were in place in December were largely ignored, as was the messaging from our public health team.


  • #5004
    H8GHOTI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭H8GHOTI


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    That does also show how rules compliant we are. Tracks very closely the regulations.

    Re Tonys graph of retail & recreation.
    Very easy to be compliant when you have no choice. If pubs are open we go, if retail is open we go. If everything is closed we can’t go.
    I wouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back.


  • #5005
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Presumably this means we need no longer expect sneers of bed-wetter, doom-monger, horn-from-cases-getter, etc.?

    Shouldn't be happening anyways, please report any posts you want us to take a look at. Any further questions my PM inbox is open

    Moderator: Current Affairs/IMHO, Soccer, Pro Wrestling



  • #5006
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    We had a wilder Christmas than just about any other country in the world.

    The limited restrictions that were in place in December were largely ignored, as was the messaging from our public health team.

    Which means the people made a choice to ease up. So be it.


  • #5007
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    We had a wilder Christmas than just about any other country in the world.

    The limited restrictions that were in place in December were largely ignored, as was the messaging from our public health team.

    That wild Christmas was typical of most weeks in Europe the last 12 months.

    Even having most people make a decent stab at it was enough to make us the most committed in Europe, many countries didn't bother and their populace bothered even less.


  • #5008
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Danzy wrote: »
    That wild Christmas was typical of most weeks in Europe the last 12 months.

    Even having most people make a decent stab at it was enough to make us the most committed in Europe, many countries didn't bother and their populace bothered even less.

    Anyone unlucky enough to spend a Christmas in a different European country will know that there aint nothing like an Irish Christmas. It's positively boring over there, no offence meant to our continental brothers or the baby Jesus.


  • #5009
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    We had a wilder Christmas than just about any other country in the world.

    The limited restrictions that were in place in December were largely ignored, as was the messaging from our public health team.

    Most of Europe didn't even bother for most of the year, populace wise.

    The Dutch population basically ignored all the conditions, as did it's Govt for a long time.

    Same in Germany and France and many others.

    It was not perfect here but most made a decent stab at it and that was very different.


  • #5010
    harr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭harr


    I will put my hands up and admit we had a large gathering at Christmas. Family only on Christmas Day.
    None of us went out prior to Christmas and most shopping was done on line and we all made a conscious decision to limit our social interactions coming up to Christmas. 6 adults and 5 kids ..... we did take certain precautions on Christmas Day itself but had a good day and a day we could forget about covid for a few hours.
    We spoke to my elderly parents about giving it a miss this year and they were adamant that wanted a proper Christmas Day .. and as they are in there 80,s freely admitted it could be the last Christmas together and didn’t want to spend it alone.
    I am glad we did now and that it all worked out ok , but I think an awful lot of families had the same mind set over the Christmas.. after what had a been a horrible year.


  • Advertisement
  • #5011
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Anyone unlucky enough to spend a Christmas in a different European country will know that there aint nothing like an Irish Christmas. It's positively boring over there, no offence meant to our continental brothers or the baby Jesus.

    True but there still remains no comparison in adherence.

    Kissing on the cheeks, hand shakes, social get togethers are the norm for the last 12 months, mask wearing was late coming for most. In many key areas there was no changes in much of Europe in the last year.

    It was not perfect or complete adherence here but most tried, most of the time.

    That's a stand out feature.

    People go on about Sweden but the Dutch pursued the same strategy.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement