Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Penn · 12-01-2021 01:37PM

astrofool wrote: »

16 isn't it? (66 total needed).

And considering most GOP senators aren't arguing that Trump is innocent but rather that its pointless, will only cause further divide etc., making them have to actually vote on it will force them to either back Trump or dump him.

If they back him even though he's clearly guilty, its going to be used against them in every future argument or election campaign. If they vote against him, they risk losing the Trump die-hards in their constituencies.

Quin_Dub · 12-01-2021 01:40PM

Penn wrote: »

And considering most GOP senators aren't arguing that Trump is innocent but rather that its pointless, will only cause further divide etc., making them have to actually vote on it will force them to either back Trump or dump him.

If they back him even though he's clearly guilty, its going to be used against them in every future argument or election campaign. If they vote against him, they risk losing the Trump die-hards in their constituencies.

Yeah.. The GOP Senators are clearly lining up the "Now is not the time" and the "Sure isn't he leaving next week anyway" defences for not voting for impeachment.

They will say that censure is the better option blah blah blah.

Spineless Amoral Cowards one and all.

FreudianSlippers · 12-01-2021 01:40PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

No sure if posted previously but you've got to watch Morning Joe on MSNBC, not your typical us network show and it's fair to say it's presenters seething over what's happened, also fair to say there's history between the Shows hosts and trump. It's a riveting watch

https://youtu.be/AREpAuOXC60

They used to be friends, both Mika (his wife) and himself were really pally with Trump and they have a lot of bad blood now.

Penn · 12-01-2021 01:42PM

Sheldon Adelson, one of the GOP's largest donors, has died.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 01:46PM

Drumpot wrote: »

When you think about it on a very simple level, how the f**k is this even a debate? He was on TV for years saying he could only lose a democraticly run election if he is cheated. He never accepted the result. People close to him were concerned he wasn’t going to leave quietly or peacefully. And it’s actually hard to not qualify what happened as a coup attempt last week given what we know.

Seems like people can’t grasp the severity of what happened. It’s crazy. He’s not any shred of evidence and he’s causing riots. I suppose when you look at how America ignores its culture of systematic racism it shouldn’t surprise me. But I think what happened last week is far bigger and potentially far more damaging long term to USA then most have factored in.

This should rightfully launch Bill Maher into a bigger spotlight. He just has a talk show on HBO, but he has, the entire presidency, been predicting that Trump would never concede and would never go willingly and will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming. Just about every week for the past 2 years, "what happens if Trump doesn't leave?"

randd1 · 12-01-2021 01:50PM

Overheal wrote: »

This should rightfully launch Bill Maher into a bigger spotlight. He just has a talk show on HBO, but he has, the entire presidency, been predicting that Trump would never concede and would never go willingly and will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming. Just about every week for the past 2 years, "what happens if Trump doesn't leave?"

Well, he was right wasn't he?

I like Maher I have to say, he doesn't pull his punches when he's going after repeated mistakes by republicans and regularly shows them up for the hypocrites they are, and he's not shy about having a go at the democrats for their crap either, and is likely have someone on the show from the right as from the left. Regularly has a pop at American excess too.

Billy Mays · 12-01-2021 02:00PM

Maher used to have a show on ABC years ago but they kicked him to the kerb after he said the 9/11 terrorists weren't cowards as they died for their cause

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 12-01-2021 02:03PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Maher used to have a show on ABC years ago but they kicked him to the kerb after he said the 9/11 terrorists weren't cowards as they died for their cause

Wasn’t it that he said nobody who flies a plane into a building is a coward?

I get what he was getting at but at the time he said, it would have been very tone-deaf.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:05PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Maher used to have a show on ABC years ago but they kicked him to the kerb after he said the 9/11 terrorists weren't cowards as they died for their cause

He's a very critical thinker, and I don't think anyone watches the show who isn't intellectually confronted by some of his views.

For that scandal I think he was right to point out that to them they were all heroes, died heroes, and were immortalized as recruitment tools. There were not enough voices in the GWB/early post-9/11 era that pushed back on this idea that 'terrorists hate us for our freedom' when it runs far deeper and off to the side than that. Maher didn't back down from using empathy as a tool to really think about why they did it.

Billy Mays · 12-01-2021 02:07PM

Yeah something along those lines

Think he also said America were bigger cowards cos they launch missiles from 500 miles away

Leroy42 · 12-01-2021 02:07PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Maher used to have a show on ABC years ago but they kicked him to the kerb after he said the 9/11 terrorists weren't cowards as they died for their cause

And therein lies the absolute insanity and hypocrisy of the current attempts to downplay the events of last week.

Americans were deeply unhappy with remarks such as Mahers after the 9/11 attacks, yet many republicans think that the defence that 'these people were fighting for what they believed in' in relation to MAGA supporters is somehow different.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:11PM

flazio wrote: »

If any Capitol employee, be they politicians or staff dies from Covid related illness in the next few weeks, it should be added to the 5 deaths so far from the storming.

Unfortunately there is deniability; Pelosi had asked another Democratic representative, who was in quarantine after testing positive, to come to the chamber for the electoral count procession. She was clear to travel but these whackadoodles will still bicker like hell about it.

https://twitter.com/RepGwenMoore/status/1345781291749404673?s=20

hotmail.com · 12-01-2021 02:13PM

So it turns out an impeachment won't stop Trump from running again nor will he lose his pension and other benefits.

So this is an unnecessary drama with just a few days left before he leaves.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:14PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Yeah something along those lines

Think he also said America were bigger cowards cos they launch missiles from 500 miles away

Being too honest about it. from that perspective.

And honesty about THAT ^ is why Chelsea Manning is still in prison.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:17PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

So it turns out an impeachment won't stop Trump from running again nor will he lose his pension and other benefits.

So this is an unnecessary drama with just a few days left before he leaves.

Stop regurgitating incorrect tweets etc. you saw.

Impeachment, upon conviction, removes the defendant from office and lifetime bans them from doing so. Strip him of his post-presidential honors, his presidential library, office & staff, pension, and travel & security budget.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

12-01-2021 02:18PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

So it turns out an impeachment won't stop Trump from running again nor will he lose his pension and other benefits.

So this is an unnecessary drama with just a few days left before he leaves.

Do you ever stop talking utter drivel?

hotmail.com · 12-01-2021 02:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

Stop regurgitating incorrect tweets etc. you saw.

Impeachment, upon conviction, removes the defendant from office and lifetime bans them from doing so. Strip him of his post-presidential honors, his presidential library, office & staff, pension, and travel & security budget.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Well the conviction seems highly unlikely.

Gregor Samsa · 12-01-2021 02:22PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

So it turns out an impeachment won't stop Trump from running again nor will he lose his pension and other benefits.

So this is an unnecessary drama with just a few days left before he leaves.

As explained before, Impeachment itself is just being sent forward for trial in the Senate. If the Senate then convict him, according to the Article I, Section 3, Clause 7 of the US Constitution:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

So he would be automatically removed from office AND bared from holding any further public office. The Constitution expressly states that these are the limits of the punishments of the Impeachment process, but it then says that it's further possible to the tried for the same actions in a court of Law, which may have other punishments (Prison, fines, etc).

Christy42 · 12-01-2021 02:23PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well the conviction seems highly unlikely.

This reads like my point was wrong but I am going to stick with it anyway. Conviction may or may not happen. It will be a handy guide to see which Republicans are willing to accept a President inciting a nazi coup against his own government.

However it is on the Democrats to at least attempt to do the right thing which is to impeach him.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:25PM

Christy42 wrote: »

This reads like my point was wrong but I am going to stick with it anyway. Conviction may or may not happen. It will be a handy guide to see which Republicans are willing to accept a President inciting a nazi coup against his own government.

However it is on the Democrats to at least attempt to do the right thing which is to impeach him.

There are already 218 cosponsors on the bill - more than half the House has signed on, before the bill was published/introduced to the floor. Passage of articles of impeachment is guaranteed.

basillarkin · 12-01-2021 02:25PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well the conviction seems highly unlikely.

Correct, no way 16 GOP senators vote to impeach him. Will be lucky to get 8. Loads there for a criminal conviction after.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:27PM

Well howdy there internet people, it's Beau again

https://twitter.com/BeauTFC/status/1348998097452621824?s=20

hotmail.com · 12-01-2021 02:27PM

Christy42 wrote: »

This reads like my point was wrong but I am going to stick with it anyway. Conviction may or may not happen. It will be a handy guide to see which Republicans are willing to accept a President inciting a nazi coup against his own government.

However it is on the Democrats to at least attempt to do the right thing which is to impeach him.

Well I just see it differently.

He's gone in a week. He's been abandoned by numerous allies. Gone of twitter. And above all, he lost the election.

The impeachment keeps him in the news for the next few days.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:30PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well I just see it differently.

He's gone in a week. He's been abandoned by numerous allies. Gone of twitter. And above all, he lost the election.

The impeachment keeps him in the news for the next few days.

If you think he wasn't going to be in the news ordinarily already, you are mistaken.

Not at all a reason to negotiate with terrorists.

Leroy42 · 12-01-2021 02:31PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well I just see it differently.

He's gone in a week. He's been abandoned by numerous allies. Gone of twitter. And above all, he lost the election.

The impeachment keeps him in the news for the next few days.

Having been the instigator to an attempted insurrection while still being POTUS is going to keep him in the news regardless.

He isn't gone in a week, he merely leaves office in a week. But are you of the opinion that once a person moves then all crimes should simply be forgotten about?

That is a very odd way of thinking about the law. Is it just jobs, or does moving home count?

Trump went on for over 4 years about Obama committed crimes against him, which is weird since Obama had left office so surely his 'crimes' should have been just left there!

Its almost as if your position makes no sense.

namloc1980 · 12-01-2021 02:40PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

So it turns out an impeachment won't stop Trump from running again nor will he lose his pension and other benefits.

So this is an unnecessary drama with just a few days left before he leaves.

Nah - the Impeachment is very important because at the trial in the Senate it will force the Republican Senators to either to show they support Law & Order by voting to convict or that they support a seditious President who incited an insurrection. It'll be revealing and therefore must go ahead.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:40PM

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1349001087928344577?s=20

A pardon is a legal acceptance/admission of guilt, and you waive your 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination related to those crimes. Pardons (especially blanket pardons) would put him and his family, his attorney Rudy Giuliani, etc. in great legal peril from the States, which would then be used overseas in relation to any crimes he committed upon others, eg. like if he defrauded Deutsche Bank. Roger Stone etc. were pardoned for the things they were convicted for - eg. lying to Congress, not blanket pardons, so Stone's 5th amendment protection is still largely intact, the only thing he's waived it for his the admission of lying to Congress, about things the DOJ already discovered were false.

Pardons also don't limit your liability to return fraudulently earned money/goods either. He could escape federal prison but he'd be ruined anyway, and subject to state criminal law.

It's looking more and more from the outside that Trump might actually take the cowards way out.

Gregor Samsa · 12-01-2021 02:49PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The impeachment keeps him in the news for the next few days.

He'd be in the news anyway.

What it does do, though, is keep the inappropriate reaction of the Republican Party in the news, and in the minds of people. It forces Republican lawmakers, members of the "party of law and order", the "party of democracy and freedom", the party that sees itself as personally embodying the whole spirit of the United States, to look at the actions of their President and publicly state whether they were legally appropriate or not.

This action isn't just about getting at Trump in the last few days of his dying term of office. It's about reminding Republicans, and the country and the world, that there are people in elected office that will stand by and let democracy be attacked without comment. People that will put party and partisan loyalty in the way of law and order, of defending democratic process, of doing what it right.

What Trump did was bad. But what other Republicans did to enable him, and are still doing to down-play his actions, is even worse. This isn't just a rogue President. This is a President who acted in a wholly unlawful and inappropriate way with the backing of a significant number of the elected officials in his party. This needs to be highlighted, and should never be forgotten.

The impeachment of Trump is about much more than just Trump.

Overheal · 12-01-2021 02:49PM

So that Parler hack/data dump, the 70-80 Terabytes? That's not just the state of the website when it shutdown this week, that's every 'deleted' post ever made on the site, because the people running the site are fcuking idiots.

Parler’s site was a mess. Its public API used no authentication. When users deleted their posts, the site failed to remove the content and instead only added a delete flag to it. Oh, and each post carried a numerical ID that was incremented from the ID of the most recently published one.

The rookie code made it easy to automate the scraping, as this script—used by donk_enby’s archival team—demonstrates. As a result, massive numbers of posts that discussed the insurrection before, during, and after it was carried out will be preserved indefinitely so that they’re available to researchers, journalists, prosecutors, and others.

Another amateur mistake was Parler’s failure to scrub geolocations from images and videos posted online. Sites like Twitter and Google routinely remove such metadata from content posted by their users. The video files hosted on Parler, by contrast, were “raw,” meaning they still contained this information.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/parlers-amateur-coding-could-come-back-to-haunt-capitol-hill-rioters/

We're coming for you, assholes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx5GwULPU90

briany · 12-01-2021 03:00PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Well the conviction seems highly unlikely.

My guess is that it depends on what Trump does. If we're to understand that Biden and the Democrats will wait at least 100 days before taking the impeachment forward to the Senate, then Trump has 100 days to at least declare his intention to run again in 2024 (although he may not be doing any actual campaigning, what with pending legal battles and possible lack of funding). And if he declares that, then he can spin Republicans daring to help convict him as deliberately trying to stop that from happening, and use it to rile up his base against the party. Sure, it might provide the Dems an easy enough win again in 2024, but Trump's crazy, and I think he would hold that gun to the head of the Reps if he thought it benefitted him personally.

Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

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