Discovery 3x13 - 'That Hope Is You, Part 2' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

corkie · 07-01-2021 9:10am #1

Discovery 3x13 - 'That Hope Is You, Part 2' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi

IMDb Link: - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12047918/

Memory-alpha epsiode breakdown: - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/That_Hope_Is_You,_Part_2_(episode)

Star Trek: Discovery | "That Hope Is You, Part 2" (Season 3, Episode 13) Recap | The Ready Room

^^^ Above links probably contain spoiler information.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

{ ** Spoilers Below ** }

liamtech · 07-01-2021 11:14am

Deplorable

For all the usual reasons - might post again later

but IMHO

This season is the worst Star Trek has produced ever - possibly slightly worse than S2 Enterprise (which to give it its due, did have a few decent eps) - this season of Disco had one decent outing, 2 average, and the rest were varying degrees of Poor, Very Poor, and atrocious

This, was the worst Season Finale - ever. This episode can be summed up by stating it contains everything wrong with this show, amplified immeasurably

horrendous to watch this - outrageously bad

Il be curious to see if anyone has anything decent to say - My disdain for it is probably colored by how atrocious the season was in my view - but i would still say this was one of its lowest outings, perhaps THEE lowest point in the series

TIP: If like me, you are finding it difficult to watch/finish - then take it from me: the last 10 minutes are more predictable than a match between Bayern Munich and Finn Harps

ilovesmybrick · 07-01-2021 12:01pm

liamtech wrote: »

Il be curious to see if anyone has anything decent to say

I liked that they brought back the lad from the space station as a Lieutenant
Finally they've updated the uniforms
I'm glad the admiral didn't turn out to be a villain
I liked the end credit theme
.....

As for the rest of it, I'd broadly agree with what you've said. Maybe as another positive with Burnham as the captain now they might try to rebalance some of the characters issues and some of the other crew might get more development? Though I hold absolutely no hope that will happen.

Also, one thing that really pissed me off was the return of the infinite chasms. How big is this bloody ship supposed to be? And that spinning camera work can go to hell, it was the last thing I needed with a mild hangover!

Spear · 07-01-2021 6:33pm

At best it was mediocre, with the reminder being mawkish tedium. There's no twists, no surprises, no major set pieces, it's just all so unimaginitive.

Mr E · 07-01-2021 6:41pm

Positive - The action on Discovery was decent enough.

I didn't care at all about the burn/Su'Kal stuff in the last few episodes (once we found out the burn was something stupid and nonsensical)

Definitely the weakest season so far.

sioda · 07-01-2021 7:35pm

Just rename it Michael Burnhams Star Trek . Absolutely shambles of a season.

Without Yeoh you lose the balance she brought that and the genuine will she kill someone vibe that I liked.

There was some good bits but tbh if they called it a day at this stage I wouldn't care. Watched every series of trek since the 80s and this is worse than some of the tng Wil Wheaton days.

If this wasn't Trek it would be gone, Stargate Universe which was far superior than this for canned too early.

TheValeyard · 07-01-2021 10:06pm

Pew Pew Scenes were nice

Saru better not be gone

Admiral is cool

Captain crybaby in charge? Ffs

I'm done with this show. (I say that but I'll probably watch S4)

Spear · 07-01-2021 10:08pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Saru better not be gone

He's not, thankfully. Doug Jones has already been filming the new season, and that included shaving his head to accommodate the prosthetics for the duration of the filming period. I suspect we'll have him back as first officer.

AllForIt · 07-01-2021 10:29pm

Although I haven't watched it yet - I'm hardly surprised by the first review by liamtech. And it's telling I'm actually prepared to read this thread with spoilers such is my disinterest and lack of anticipation for the finale. Would never do that ordinarily.

And I agree, the whole of S3 as been noting but dire, and I've really turned on it since my moderate criticism of S1/2, where I was 70/30 in favour of the constant diversity element to it, where I am now 100% against it cuz I think it's a huge factor in why S3 is a complete and utter flop. I'm actually really annoyed by this cuz I would be classified as a 'diversity' demographic myself.

Whatever show this is, isn't not Star Trek. It looks like Star Trek, it has elements of Star Trek that is just basically ST imagery but nothing more. It's more like some ST-esque style sci-fi that has stolen the ST brand.

liamtech · 07-01-2021 11:07pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Although I haven't watched it yet - I'm hardly surprised by the first review by liamtech. And it's telling I'm actually prepared to read this thread with spoilers such is my disinterest and lack of anticipation for the finale. Would never do that ordinarily.

And I agree, the whole of S3 as been noting but dire, and I've really turned on it since my moderate criticism of S1/2, where I was 70/30 in favour of the constant diversity element to it, where I am now 100% against it cuz I think it's a huge factor in why S3 is a complete and utter flop. I'm actually really annoyed by this cuz I would be classified as a 'diversity' demographic myself.

Whatever show this is, isn't not Star Trek. It looks like Star Trek, it has elements of Star Trek that is just basically ST imagery but nothing more. It's more like some ST-esque style sci-fi that has stolen the ST brand.

I always try and be careful with first posts - but honestly it was so bad IMHO. SHOCKING writing, ridiculous story, that went no where

I used to rewatch and watch episodes of star trek over and over again on the day of release - Loved this franchise so much

And its not modern trek, i know picard has its detractors - I admit the finale of Picard was a let down, but the season overall was VERY watchable -

The problem is discovery, and Burnham

I saw someone mention that they are giving up - i feel the pain folks. If you enjoyed it then im happy for you but, for me, this show is dying a slow death

I will watch it, theres no point in denying it! But i hardly care anymore - Burnhams constant speeches too - OMG - SO SO CONTRIVED

I will watch S4 but i might actually wait, then read some 'spoiler' free ratings - then just power through the season on an afternoon

Waiting and watching full episodes each week is hardly worth it. I wont give up, i survived the Enterprise days - i can survive this. But if it is cancelled after S4 i wont be upset. And, if it is cancelled or cut short, they only have themselves to blame

Bring on Strange New Worlds, and picard - im indifferent to S31 show - but il watch it anyway

GSPfan · 08-01-2021 12:08am

This show won’t be cancelled. It’ll go 5 years I’m sure.

So many cringe moments and predictable outcomes. It’s just not overall any good. There are some bits I like but so many I don’t.

Good bits...
I suppose the reorganisation of the crew to put Wonder Woman as captain is the right thing to do.
Saru is very likeable and I almost feel glad for him that he got to go home and get away from Burnham.
Admiral Vance is still a good addition to the cast.
That’s about it.

Bad bits...
The Chain/Osiris were useless.
Booker being able to jump the ship was convenient and relegates Stamets now to just being another crew member.
Grey being visible on the holodeck... wtf?
The turbolifts wizzing around a giant void inside the ship was just stupid.
The sphere data is in the robot? What’s going on with that storyline?
The diverse family of Stamets, Culber, Adira, and Grey is just so cringe.

I don’t know where they go with this show now. It felt like a series finale and it’s a pity it’s not. I have a weird feeling we are due an appearance from the Borg in the next season as it’s one thing they flirted with in season 2 and people got a bit interested. Watch Burnham go up against the Borg Queen in season 4. That’s my bet.

heebusjeebus · 08-01-2021 12:37am

That was brutal.
What logic is there to have so much empty space around the turbo shafts yet they still have cramped Jeffries tubes.

Goodshape · 08-01-2021 1:17am

I liked the stuff on the planet.

Couldn't give a monkey's about the burn. Or the chain.

Burnham as captain? Might as well tbh.

New uniforms look a bit stuffy.

Finally got a half-decent, athough still smothered in blue blur, little fly-by and warp-away at the very end, which was nice.

Not a bad epsiode in the scheme of things.

sunbeam · 08-01-2021 1:44am

I sat through the whole of it just hoping there would be a twist at the end. Or at least we might see a short clip of where Georgiou ended up, but no.

I love Star Trek. I even loved Voyager. My standards aren't exactly high, but this was beyond disappointing. They had a clean slate this season to create a novel vision for the future and all we got were pantomime villains and the most ridiculous explanation possible for The Burn. At this stage, I actually wish Burnham did cause it.

I'll probably continue watching ins spite of all of that. I do hope the Borg, or whatever they have become turn up in the next season. It might be better if they find some ways to tie in with canon. It couldn't make it much worse.

breezy1985 · 08-01-2021 3:08am

Now that the big evil is beaten and the burn resolved I would love a season of stand alone episodes but I doubt there is any hope of that.

Sad thing is the writers are better at them than the arc nonsense

GSPfan · 08-01-2021 3:48am

I was just thinking if you took out mostly everything other than Saru and Culber on a planet with the kelpian fella then that story would have made a very good bottle episode.

Take out the stupid Burn part of the story, have Saru and Culber get stranded there after they receive a distress call with a clock ticking on their survival chances, and have Burnham and Discovery engaged in some distraction elsewhere.

That to me would have been great cause the holoship stuff was interesting.

I forgot to mention.... to follow on further from the Die Hard Burnham stuff from last week she goes and has an elevator shaft scene.

sunbeam · 08-01-2021 3:58am

Yeah, it reminded me a lot of the TNG Episode Future Imperfect. That packed more twists and suspense into one episode than Discovery managed in 3+.

I hope they do make it a bit more episodic next season, even if it is only involves the planet of the week that Discovery is delivering dilithium to and trying to coax back into the Federation fold.

breezy1985 · 08-01-2021 4:04am

GSPfan wrote: »

I was just thinking if you took out mostly everything other than Saru and Culber on a planet with the kelpian fella then that story would have made a very good bottle episode.

Take out the stupid Burn part of the story, have Saru and Culber get stranded there after they receive a distress call with a clock ticking on their survival chances, and have Burnham and Discovery engaged in some distraction elsewhere.

That to me would have been great cause the holoship stuff was interesting.

I forgot to mention.... to follow on further from the Die Hard Burnham stuff from last week she goes and has an elevator shaft scene.

If the holo kids powers got Discovery stuck in a nebula and threatened the ship and not all ships everywhere in the entire universe it would be a good sci-fi episode

AllForIt · 08-01-2021 4:14am

Someone pass the sick bucket.

The dialogue was truly stomach churning. Emotional diarrhoea.

What was the point of Adria's face painting? I found that particularly weird, as if to say that because she's non-binary she's like a beautiful butterfly but in ordinary life we just don't see it. Uggh.

How can you ignore the utter stupidity of long hair styles in combat situations. Be it red or black. It sticks out like a sore thumb for it's obvious diversity virtue signalling, but doesn't work even in fantasy sci-fi.

As for Colbert, he seems to know lots, but no evidence he has any special powers. He can figure things out in an instant. It's painful watching him say anything.

Yet again we see the weakling crew come good. They are so weak but strong at the same time. I know this is sci-fi but they're pushing it beyond credibility, even by fantasy standards. The continuity crew can't seem to decide whether Tilly's hair should be in a ponytail or front of shoulder. Pfff. Can't even get that right.

I'd never normally watch with captions, but I did for the finale, and omg, what utter garbage dialogue. When you see it written down you wouldn't give it to a child to learn English.

I hope they all live happily ever after, and *uck off into a galaxy so far away we never come across them again.

breezy1985 · 08-01-2021 4:21am

AllForIt wrote: »

What was the point of Adria's face painting? I found that particularly weird, as if to say that because she's non-binary she's like a beautiful butterfly but in ordinary life we just don't see it. Uggh.

The holodeck made her look alien like it did all of the crew. Its a race we saw last season. Uggh

08-01-2021 11:47am

Think I’ve read enough not to bother watching it.

duffman13 · 08-01-2021 1:02pm

Absolutely dog****e! I always thought any trek was better than no trek! After that abomination I'm not so sure. How big is discovery, that wild action sequence made it look like a huge space station.

The admiral has been destroyed as a character too.

Burnham is Q, if that was actually revealed then this series might save a shred of credibility given her exploits buts it as a genuine heap of ****e of a show. I keep sticking with it and thought the first two seasons were ok and the story line arc for this season had huge potential.

Kid causes the burn with a hissy fit, the explanation of which was genuinely ****e. Burnham saves the day as usual

The final scene genuinely felt like a spoof ending with her in the chair!

I won't be back for season 4 unfortunately, its not worth the frustration

Goodshape · 08-01-2021 1:33pm

duffman13 wrote: »

How big is discovery, that wild action sequence made it look like a huge space station.

I mostly tuned out for the 80s action-movie stuff but yeah, what the hell was all that? Were they supposed to be fighting in a run-away turbolift? That vast open space they were whizzing through for 20 minutes was... what? the turblift-shafts in Discovery? Is Discovery just a big empty shell?

Such a pointless set-piece, it's like they went out of their way to make fools of themselves.

Inquitus · 08-01-2021 3:09pm

Not a great ending to what started out as a very promising 3rd series.

EltonJohn69 · 08-01-2021 3:23pm

I had no idea what was going on in that fish ghost planet

GreeBo · 08-01-2021 5:03pm

Ha ha, that was so bad, cliché followed by cliché.
Shocking

GSPfan · 08-01-2021 5:05pm

What achievements has Burnham got now?

She’s started a war with the Klingons.
She’s ended a war she started with the Klingons.
She’s saved every living thing in the universe from an artificial intelligence.
She’s solved the mystery of the Burn and began the reformation of the Federation.

She’s possibly the most important character in Star Trek history.

duffman13 · 08-01-2021 5:25pm

Goodshape wrote: »

I mostly tuned out for the 80s action-movie stuff but yeah, what the hell was all that? Were they supposed to be fighting in a run-away turbolift? That vast open space they were whizzing through for 20 minutes was... what? the turblift-shafts in Discovery? Is Discovery just a big empty shell?

Such a pointless set-piece, it's like they went out of their way to make fools of themselves.

That room that Oysira was in, has that been seen before?

For a good portion of that whole shoot up I thought they were on her ship and then I realised that the writers are just idiots.

duffman13 · 08-01-2021 5:26pm

GSPfan wrote: »

What achievements has Burnham got now?

She’s started a war with the Klingons.
She’s ended a war she started with the Klingons.
She’s saved every living thing in the universe from an artificial intelligence.
She’s solved the mystery of the Burn and began the reformation of the Federation.

She’s possibly the most important character in Star Trek history.

She made Spock the man he was! I mean without her..............

EltonJohn69 · 08-01-2021 5:51pm

duffman13 wrote: »

She made Spock the man he was! I mean without her..............

No burn ham no Kirk.

PhiloCypher · 08-01-2021 6:40pm

Words fail me . Where to start . The wheel spinning of the planet side stuff, that served only to make explicit what had already been implied in the last episode, that Suka'l caused the burn . This all could have been covered in one episode if they hadn't pissed about in the mirror universe for 2. They completely piss away the only interesting idea they'd had from the last episode, that the Chain was a civilization in its own right, that Osyraa had superiors, and wasn't just the leader of a crime Syndicate, and turned her back into a hammy villain. The episode is needlessly long for what it needs to do. The utterly ridiculous turbo lift set piece was pure Droid factory in AoTC sfx setpiece, for the sake of sfx setpiece. It went on for far too long, serving only to highlight the ridiculous tardis nature of Discovery . There wouldn't be that much internal space in a Borg Cube FFS.

As for Burnham ending up in the captains chair. I don't think she deserves it , but at least it solves the problem of her undermining every commanding officer she's served under. The buck stops with her now. Her monologue about connection was predictably grandiose. . Every episode next season will no doubt start with her waxing lyrical about one thing or another in her captains log. Tearing up at her own profound words .

Please god they go down an episodic route next season, as they are utterly hopeless at threading the needle between servicing the seasons arc and its characters in a serialised format with so few episodes.

Sidenote: the new uniforms are hideous.

EltonJohn69 · 08-01-2021 6:51pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Words fail me . Where to start . The wheel spinning of the planet side stuff, that served only to make explicit what had already been implied in the last episode, that Suka'l caused the burn . This all could have been covered in one episode if they hadn't pissed about in the mirror universe for 2. They completely piss away the only interesting idea they'd had from the last episode, that the Chain was a civilization in its own right, that Osyraa had superiors, and wasn't just the leader of a crime Syndicate, and turned her back into a hammy villain. The episode is needlessly long for what it needs to do. The utterly ridiculous turbo lift set piece was pure Droid factory in AoTC sfx setpiece, for the sake of sfx setpiece. It went on for far too long, serving only to highlight the ridiculous tardis nature of Discovery . There wouldn't be that much internal space in a Borg Cube FFS.

As for Burnham ending up in the captains chair. I don't think she deserves it , but at least it solves the problem of her undermining every commanding officer she's served under. The buck stops with her now. Her monologue about connection was suitably grandiose as it typical of this show . Every episode next season will no doubt start with her waxing lyrical about one thing or another in her captains log. Tearing up at her own profound words .

Please god they go down an episodic route next season, as they are utterly hopeless at threading the needle between servicing the seasons arc and its characters in a serialised format with so few episodes.

Sidenote: the new uniforms are hideous.

This boots looked ill fitting

PirateShampoo · 08-01-2021 7:07pm

So dead trill doesn't want to dead anymore and somehow can be made real on a Holodeck.

And now they are going to find away to make him a real boy.

Didn't DS9 cover this with Odo and Kerzon where it would kill Dax or something?

ted1 · 08-01-2021 7:26pm

So stammets can get his own ship now and they can have two ships with spore drives.

Him and his blended family can go off around the galaxy on family picnics.

CastorTroy · 08-01-2021 8:05pm

liamtech wrote: »

TIP: If like me, you are finding it difficult to watch/finish - then take it from me: the last 10 minutes are more predictable than a match between Bayern Munich and Finn Harps

First, as a Donegal man, Hey!
:pac:

So why wasn't that scientist/doctor guy beamed off the ship with the rest of the soldiers?
And why did they eject the core if they could just jump anyway?
After it was pointed out last week that Osyrra was basically a member of the Chain and not a leader, the whole Chain falls apart without her?
Why did all of the bridge crew have to go and plant the bomb when Owo could do it by herself once they got the parts?
Was thinking of the eulogy for Owo "She grew up on a farm and she could hold her breath for 10 minutes".
Why was Michael already sitting in the Captain 's chair while Saru was still there?

I really find it weird that Culber and Stamets are treating Adira like their child. And how Culber hugged Gray.
And then of course, how is Gray there? If a hologram, why not just bring him back on a holodeck or use a mobile emitter like The Doctor from Voyager had.

D3V!L · 08-01-2021 8:40pm

Just finished to the episode. My wife picked up a cushion and screamed into it with frustration and I shouted "get the ****" at the TV while rage unlisting it from my Netflix account.

Trek fan for the past 40 years and this is the worst thing they have put the name to. Gene Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave.

D3V!L · 08-01-2021 9:05pm

D3V!L wrote: »

Just finished to the episode. My wife picked up a cushion and screamed into it with frustration and I shouted "get the ****" at the TV while rage unlisting it from my Netflix account.

Trek fan for the past 40 years and this is the worst thing they have put the name to. Gene Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave.

She's still walking around the house mumbling to herself about it :pac:

I fear there has been irreversible damage done .

CastorTroy · 08-01-2021 9:20pm

Is she a trek fan or are you to blame so can be held accountable for her frustration?

alchemist33 · 08-01-2021 9:20pm

The comments on this thread have been x100 more entertaining than the show!

I decided weeks ago that if Michael ended up as captain I was done. Unfortunately Discovery is a Daddy And Son programme for me and my 12 year old and he'snot so discerning. I'll have to hide s4 from him somehow

D3V!L · 08-01-2021 9:35pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Is she a trek fan or are you to blame so can be held accountable for her frustration?

Yes a fan , not a big of a one as me but she's watched it a long time.

CastorTroy · 08-01-2021 9:40pm

It felt like a finale from the way it ended. Or setup for a new beginning.
"Michael Burnham presents Michael Burnham in Michael Burnham's Star Trek Discovery. Starring Michael Burnham."

What was that thing in the data core that she was pushed into? Just made me think "Now they're really making her Superman from Superman 3"

alchemist33 · 08-01-2021 9:46pm

Will Starfleet now adopt the "shoot up a canister of pesticide" tactic to destroy whole fleets of starships? To go through those ventilation shafts that open to a vacuum. Around ships with shields.

GreeBo · 08-01-2021 10:09pm

Ha ha, I just remembered my favourite part, when they detach the nacelle and the spaceship skids... in space.
I was just waiting to hear a shriek of tyres it was so bad!

Special mention to the new pyjamas they all seem to be wearing.

GreeBo · 08-01-2021 10:09pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Will Starfleet now adopt the "shoot up a canister of pesticide" tactic to destroy whole fleets of starships? To go through those ventilation shafts that open to a vacuum. Around ships with shields.

But not into Discovery itself... Interesting!

08-01-2021 10:15pm

Sorry was there an emergency quarantine field that let people through an open door? When Michael and book escape
Michael saves the day
Why is grey a person. Stahp
"his scream must have travelled at the resonant frequency of dilithium" oh god be with the days of just reversing the polarity!!
Owo saves the day! I am impressed! Gwan Owo
How can the viewscreen eat michael
Initial reaction "ffs tilly" but I suppose last time she was in charge they wrecked the gaff
I'm okay with Book being able to jump the ship, they laid enough groundwork for it with him

I love saru
Look lads at least burnham didn't cause the burn yea??

GreeBo · 08-01-2021 10:27pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Sorry was there an emergency quarantine field that let people through an open door?

I was thinking the same but I reckon Burnham put osyrab and yer man in a field, not herself and book.

Though she also told everyone what she was and to do before doing it, which is pathetically stupid unless you are Rick Sanchez

Banana Republic 1 · 08-01-2021 10:35pm

What a dreadful pile of sh1t the whole discovery saga has been. I’ll bet Roddenberry is turning in his grave.

predictably whispering Jesus gets the captaincy. where does it go now, I don’t care cause I’m done with klutzmann trek.

EltonJohn69 · 08-01-2021 11:49pm

So is Star Trek done ?

breezy1985 · 08-01-2021 11:58pm

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

So is Star Trek done ?

Still plenty to look forward to. And with Discovery off in the 32nd century it can just be ignored

EltonJohn69 · 09-01-2021 12:03am

Was that line “we see you” to Tal was fairly heavy handed

somuj · 09-01-2021 12:18am

Is this vomit? Trek, I knew how many decks, Google anuwY
Space elavators wat

Discovery 3x13 - 'That Hope Is You, Part 2' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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Discovery 3x13 - 'That Hope Is You, Part 2' ~~ { Spoilers Within }