Discovery 3x13 - 'That Hope Is You, Part 2' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

breezy1985

...Ghost... wrote: »

Perhaps because it's not unusual to see someone making out with a random stranger stranger of any gender at a party unless the gender is opposite to the understood and established preference of that person. Also i'm not aware that there was any establishment to Detmers sexual preferences, nor does it matte nearly as much, because she is a minor character with no backstory. But if it was established in any meaningful, or direct way that she was hetero, please do enlighten me.

If there were nobody of your sexual preference on a ship, would you think about having sex with the other gender?

Bi seven could be bi or do you think that doesn't exist.
Sevens backstory was she was captured by the Borg as a child and was discovering how to be human and obviously she realized she is bi in the many years between Picard and Voyager

kowloon

GSPfan wrote: »

The turbolifts wizzing around a giant void inside the ship was just stupid.

I think that ship might actually be bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.

...Ghost...

breezy1985 wrote: »

Bi seven could be bi or do you think that doesn't exist.
Sevens backstory was she was captured by the Borg as a child and was discovering how to be human and obviously she realized she is bi in the many years between Picard and Voyager

No. What happened is some woke, entitled writers sh@t all over years of character development and at the very end of the script they decided that Seven was gay. Any half competent writer would have written it into the story, not in the closing seconds of the finale.

edited to add: if you are happy with such lazy writing, that's fine. I expect a bit more than unexplained magic and empty vessel characters of no gender.

breezy1985

...Ghost... wrote: »

No. What happened is some woke, entitled writers sh@t all over years of character development and at the very end of the script they decided that Seven was gay. Any half competent writer would have written it into the story, not in the closing seconds of the finale.

edited to add: if you are happy with such lazy writing, that's fine. I expect a bit more than unexplained magic and empty vessel characters of no gender.

My reading of it was he had been in a relationship with Bejazzle so I wasn't at all surprised in the closing seconds of the finale. And I didn't not see her wanting to hold hands with another woman as s******g all over years of character development

<snip>
Mod note: keep it friendly please

~Rebel~

breezy1985 wrote: »

Bi seven could be bi or do you think that doesn't exist.
Sevens backstory was she was captured by the Borg as a child and was discovering how to be human and obviously she realized she is bi in the many years between Picard and Voyager

I don't have any problem with any of the identity characteristics on Discovery - it's the least of its problems. Though I do think they do a disservice to the people they're representing by developing these characters so poorly, but that's neither here nor there.

The Seven moment was weird though. The fact that you need to say stuff like maybe there weren't any bi/gay women on Voyager for her to explore with, or maybe she just found her sexuality at some point in the meantime, is indicative of the problem. We are given no context so have to invent it ourselves.

If this is the thing you're choosing the make the final emotional beat of this character's season, then earn it earlier in the season and make it mean something to us. The fact they made it her final act means the writers thought it was at least somewhat of a big deal - otherwise it could've just been some little throwaway moment like you described with Detmer.

It's not exactly the end of the world (and I totally disagree with the comment of it being "a big FU to straight male fans"), but just feels like more of the shoddy haphazard careless writing we've come to expect from Star Trek of late.

Banana Republic 1

The writing is so poor on these latest round of Star Trek shows that no theme can avoid being mangled. I feel patronised watching the tick the box nature way things are handled.

Chekov said that if a gun appears in the first act of a play it should be shot in the 3rd act. Technically "Elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play."

I know there's a season to go but Discovery is filled with un-shot guns, the Sphere data being the biggest. Its like they remembered it in the last episode or two and panicked and put it in the cleaning robots.

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Chekov said that if a gun appears in the first act of a play it should be shot in the 3rd act. Technically "Elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play."

I know there's a season to go but Discovery is filled with un-shot guns, the Sphere data being the biggest. Its like they remembered it in the last episode or two and panicked and put it in the cleaning robots.

Seems to be a thing now in a lot of shows to just have random plot threads to nowhere just to keep you guessing. I blame Lost for starting the trend

Discovery definitely does it but on top of that sometimes the writers can't even seem to remember something they done a few episodes before and just ignore or contravene it

PhiloCypher

If I could ban one word in this forum it would be woke. It always precedes the thread descending into anarchy. Can we please save that s**t for afterhours.

...Ghost...

breezy1985 wrote: »

My reading of it was he had been in a relationship with Bejazzle so I wasn't at all surprised in the closing seconds of the finale. And I didn't not see her wanting to hold hands with another woman as s******g all over years of character development

edited to add: if you are happy telling yourself you are not a homophobe that's fine

You can read into it all you like. It's pretty clear you don't have a clue and are shooting in the dark to defend the emptiness of Disco and Picard. You've had to invent nonsense from Voyager and conveniently forgot about Sevens actual character development.

You seem to be as lazy as the writers, copying my "edited" comment and then accusing me of being a homophobe. But I am not surprised with all the nonsense and fairytale content you've written about already on this thread. Disappointing that you couldn't remain civil and instead resorted to disgusting name calling of a fellow poster.

AMKC

Just finished watching this episode now.

All I will say is it was very disappointing.

I hated the turbo lift part and it asking for what sector lol. It's a Starship built in the 23rd century not a tardis.
The crew getting to the nacelle. Really how dragged out was that. Surely there would have been space suits they could have got somewhere or even oxygen somewhere. Did they all really have to go to the nacelles.
I also was bored of the nonsense on the planet.
Why did the Federation not have a code for Discovery like Kirk had the code for the Eeliant in TWOK. Surely after upgrading the most valuable ship in Starfleet that would have been something they should have had and if Osyirea had just replaced the Discovery operating system with her own that is silly too.
The fight scenes were overdone and boring.

The best part of this episode was the last 6 minutes.

However I do have hope for season 4 been maybe the season that season 3 should have been. They might actually get back to been explorers and been like Star Trek. The new uniforms reminded me if the ones from TMP.
Anyway that is all I have to say.

Am going to watch some Star Trek that actually feels and looks like Star Trek now and has good episodes aka Lower Decks.

...Ghost...

PhiloCypher wrote: »

If I could ban one word in this forum it would be woke. It always precedes the thread descending into anarchy. Can we please save that s**t for afterhours.

I use that word sparingly myself as it really is overused. But i do think it applies to the writers of Disco and Picard. It was all about ticking boxes and everything else was secondary at best. Season 1 of Disco had promise even with the box ticking, but it's gotten worse very quickly thereafter.

CramCycle

Negatives: The turbolifts, the writing, the story, Burnham.
Positives: A stretch, but maybe they will go to the episodic format that clearly suits them.
Overall, this was, somehow, the worst episode yet, the prior two had symbols of hope, and this one just chucked them out the window.
I stopped reading this thread after the first 40 posts, hopefully it improved. It's a pity that some decide to use poor writing as an excuse to see something that isn't an issue as an issue. I hated this episode, but as Trek often is, in a reflection of society, so it's fans apparently are too. This episode was terrible because it was terrible, the writing and the actors trying to force the poor writing was gut wrenching to watch. It had nothing to do with whatever social thing you don't like, which, as always, were non issues in the episode. If that's what ruined it for you, your not a Trek fan anyway.

It's still sh1t though, people trying to claim it's sh1t because of some, their words, not mine, woke BS, is just people for f*ck knows what reason looking to hate over something that isn't even related. It's sh1t because it's sh1t, mainly the writers because the actors and effects team have all shown potential.

Banana Republic 1

CramCycle wrote: »

the actors and effects team have all shown potential.

To next appear in a Colgate add.

PhiloCypher

...Ghost... wrote: »

I use that word sparingly myself as it really is overused. But i do think it applies to the writers of Disco and Picard. It was all about ticking boxes and everything else was secondary at best. Season 1 of Disco had promise even with the box ticking, but it's gotten worse very quickly thereafter.

There's so much more wrong with Discovery then its box ticking tho, banging on about its wokeness does you no favours. It genuinely feels like when I see certain posters in this subforum I know almost without reading , of the episodes many flaws, they will choose to bang on about 'woke' this 'tick box' that , like a broken record . That we've spent so many posts in this thread on Wokeness instead of that ridiculous turbolift scene baffles me beyond belief.

Seriously, Borg Cubes don't have that much internal space.

Cookie_Monster

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Seriously, Borg Cubes don't have that much internal space.

By itself this is inexcusably bad, but then consider the shuttle bay takes up most of the engineering hull space in the middle, shown all the time in rear exterior shots as being hugely wide and very deep. So all that turbolift space is somewhere else around that

Stark

That turbolift thing dated back to Season 1 though this is the first time we got a really clear extended look at Discovery's weird hollow space.

breezy1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

By itself this is inexcusably bad, but then consider the shuttle bay takes up most of the engineering hull space in the middle, shown all the time in rear exterior shots as being hugely wide and very deep. So all that turbolift space is somewhere else around that

At least they finally closed the door in the last scene

pah

Regarding Seven it was not about her sexuality coming out of left field. I think there was a suggestion that the woman she killed in an earlier episode was a previous partner/lover. Grand, whatever you're into.

For me it was the fact she was holding hands in a romantic way with someone she previously had only two words with. Bull**** writing. It would have been just as weird if she was interlocking fingers with the captain, Rios was it?

pah

Stark wrote: »

That turbolift thing dated back to Season 1 though this is the first time we got a really clear extended look at Discovery's weird hollow space.

Zero fuçks given.

SouthWesterly

What what the idea of gray? Absolute nonsense as was the scene with the 3 of them at the end ignoring MB.
Liked the turbo lift graphics.
It's a 32C refit.
Love the throwback to the original series with the theme music at the end.

CastorTroy

I was thinking since they upgraded the shields, wouldn't Starfleet HQ have had the codes/frequency for Discovery's shields?

pah

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Liked the turbo lift graphics.

But it makes no sense.

GreeBo

breezy1985 wrote: »

And the warp core that fall 20 decks down a fun slide hoping off the wall on the way down.

You wouldnt want to be in a hurry to get that core out

Ha ha, I had forgotten about that nonsense.
It's like they flushed it down a toilet, might need to have a word with the ship designers.

...Ghost...

PhiloCypher wrote: »

There's so much more wrong with Discovery then its box ticking tho, banging on about its wokeness does you no favours. It genuinely feels like when I see certain posters in this subforum I know almost without reading , of the episodes many flaws, they will choose to bang on about 'woke' this 'tick box' that , like a broken record . That we've spent so many posts in this thread on Wokeness instead of that ridiculous turbolift scene baffles me beyond belief.

Seriously, Borg Cubes don't have that much internal space.

I think the woke point is that there is so much energy gone into the box ticking that the writers have lost the plot, excuse the pun. I agree, it's one point that's gotten too much attention. The flaws are multi-faceted and inexcusable. So many things go without explanation and sci-fi is closer to magic in Disco.

SouthWesterly

pah wrote: »

But it makes no sense.

Sure it does. They goto all sections of the ship.

pah

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Sure it does. They goto all sections of the ship.

Hmmm, not sure if serious

AMKC

breezy1985 wrote: »

And the warp core that fall 20 decks down a fun slide hoping off the wall on the way down.

You wouldnt want to be in a hurry to get that core out

Yep watching that I was thinking jeez that is bruttle. Maybe they had hoped and thought it would never need to be used. At least the core looked like a warp core unlike them yikes from the jj Trek Enterprise in the 2009 film. They were more like Anty matter pods.

GreeBo

The only bit of this that was proper trek was the mother setting up a hollow programme for her kid and then it running for too long and collapsing in on itself.

Are we supposed to know kelpians live that long btw?
And any reason given for why the ship was breaking down? Just seemed to be taken for granted without any explanation, unless it was radiation?

The grey holo crap was terrible, like where did the computer get that idea from? And now we are going to have to sit through another season where they "cleverly" link the character "coming out" of herself or some such crap.

And why is the ship a deathtrap? Randomly vents into space is it thinks there is a fire, no breathing equipment in engineering, sure bloody Scotty and his team had breathing tubes a million years ago!

The sphere that has hundreds of thousands of years of knowledge seems like a useless piece of crap, they didn't even use the drones as scouts, they just got shot for no benefit?

Oh and it was pretty easy to restore the old computer, just switch a few bits of plastic? Piss off!

I can't even bring myself to talk about turbo lift land, you could base an entire season of that magical place, better than feckin' Narnia that place.

The hungry data drive was also excellent, such clever sci fi writing and cinematography, I mean it made zero sense and was totally illogical but who cares, right?

Vance is, like so many of the rest of them, pure paper character "oh we love you Michael, thanks for shoeing us the way!" It's a bloody cult is what it is.

The sooner the Orville is back the better, we know the characters, they are all well built, there are back stories, moral and ethical dilemmas and none of this whimpering, whispering bull**** every two mins.

GreeBo

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Sure it does. They goto all sections of the ship.

In TNG: Disaster we see Picard and 3 kids climb out of s turbo lift and up the lift shafts... Where did that all go?

It reminded me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkZR6OzXIA