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Julian Assange cannot be extradited - Oh yes he can...

2

Comments

  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
    Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited

    America has made Europe less safe. And why is it for America alone to judge America's crimes, if America wants to be world policeman.

    Contrast the extradition request for Assange with the release of Pollard. Assange didn't reveal much that would have made American spies more vulnerable, Pollard did, and at the height of the Cold War too. Yet he gets a heroes welcome in Israel.


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    AMKC wrote: »
    So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

    He was doing what used to be called journalism. The US in engaging in what used to be called Totalitarianism.


  • #54
    Hoboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Again, I'm not talking about Assange.

    Wrong thread so.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Wrong thread so.

    Which I also mentioned. ;)


  • #56
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I'm very glad to hear this. Hopefully the ruling won't be overturned by some other instance/judge.


  • #57
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are honestly saying that, if I present you with the option of either being extradited for a petty crime or e.g. being diagnosed with brain cancer, it would be a "toss up" of which you would prefer?


    You could win an olympic gold medal in strawman arguments.


  • #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    osarusan wrote: »
    You could win an olympic gold medal in strawman arguments.

    I see a lot of people posting witty responses but no one actually answering my questions. :p


  • #59
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see a lot of people posting witty responses but no one actually answering my questions. :p

    maybe because the question is a false dilemma fallacy and not relevant to the thread.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    maybe because the question is an excluded middle fallacy and not relevant to the thread.

    Witty responses are also not relevant. If derailing the thread with witty responses is considered fine, I'm sure serious responses are also fine.


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  • #61
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Witty responses are also not relevant. If derailing the thread with witty responses is considered fine, I'm sure serious responses are also fine.

    anything relevant to say about assange?

    I'll start. This is only a temporary reprieve for assange. the judgement will be appealed and he might not be so lucky the next time.


  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    anything relevant to say about assange?

    I'll start. This is only a temporary reprieve for assange. the judgement will be appealed and he might not be so lucky the next time.

    Yes, I have already given my opinion about this ruling, thank you for asking.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115798611&postcount=7

    Someone then went on to to make an outlandish generalised comment about extradition without backing up their opinion. And apparently it's ok to make such a comment but not to question it.


  • #63
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I would be surprised if Trump doesn't use his powers of clemency on him. It falls into his mistrust of the former administrations, would give Trump headlines and also distract from the loss of the presidency in some form.


  • #64
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Let's not forget Trump pardoned Blackwater contractors last month, who opened fire on unarmed civilians killing 14 of them including children. Scot free.


  • #65
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Let's not forget Trump pardoned Blackwater contractors last month, who opened fire on unarmed civilians killing 14 of them including children. Scot free.

    Yep, Trump is firmly on the other side here


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trump isn't going to pardon Assange. Well not until his next term anyway.

    Maybe after Jan 21 :-p


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  • #67
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

    I don' see any relevance to freedom of the press in the ruling. From the BBC's legal analyst:

    "District Judge Vanessa Baraitser explicitly concluded that Mr Assange should answer allegations that he aided and abetted hacking, theft and the disclosure of the identities of informants working for the US security agencies - disclosures that endangered their lives.

    In English law, that would be enough for him to be charged with a crime here - and so the route was open for Mr Assange to face trial for the same in the United States.

    If his 'freedom' had to be demonstrated by being locked up in an embassy for years, and then being a suicide threat, you have an odd definition of freedom of the press. Or, to put it as the judge did, sufficiently free that if he did it in the to the UK and not the US, there'd be no question of his facing trial for his actions.

    If the US can demonstrate in its appeal that equivalent services to those found in Belmarsh prison can be provided.then off he goes, with no further attentions paid to press privileges.


  • #68
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If the US can demonstrate in its appeal that equivalent services to those found in Belmarsh prison can be provided.then off he goes, with no further attentions paid to press privileges.

    I'm hoping the judge used whatever she could to keep him from being extradited, anything to keep him from your lot! Although it also looks like she would have if he wasn't a suicide threat.


  • #69
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Yep, Trump is firmly on the other side here




    I love the oul' wikileaks meself


  • #70
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    AMKC wrote: »
    So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.




    yeah, he should have kept his mouth shut, let the US military get on with their murdering and increase the terrorism risk.
    brilliant logic.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #71
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, he should have kept his mouth shut, let the US military get on with their murdering and increase the terrorism risk.
    brilliant logic.

    The protections given to whistleblowers tend to be related only to the 'confidential' information released which is relevant to the activity requiring attention and necessary for bringing it to light. If someone leaked confidential information on worker abuse in Coca Cola and simultaneously released the secret recipe for the stuff, they would be held liable for the un-necessary leak even whilst being protected for the leak on worker abuse.

    Wikileaks did no editorializing and just did a total data dump, good or bad. There is also the matter of incitement of breach of security as opposed to a journalist merely processing information which as brought to him without his involvement in the acquisition process.

    Like with Snowden, there are acceptable ways of bringing these issues to light, and there are unacceptable ways. Someone with good judgement can identify the one from the other.


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  • #72
    Hangdogroad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    handlemaster wrote: »
    I would be surprised if Trump doesn't use his powers of clemency on him. It falls into his mistrust of the former administrations, would give Trump headlines and also distract from the loss of the presidency in some form.
    That's what I think as well. A populist move that would be right up his street.


  • #73
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Hangdogroad wrote: »
    That's what I think as well. A populist move that would be right up his street.

    Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.


  • #74
    MFPM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭MFPM


    AMKC wrote: »
    So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

    Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him

    What an odd moral judgement.


  • #75
    Hangdogroad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.

    Assange is one of those figures who I often see popping up in the FB feed of conspiracy theorist types, people who are always on about the new world order, illuminati etc. They often belong to that odd gray area where they embrace ideas both espoused by the right and left.


  • #76
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.

    That Assange is an enemy of the Deep State/Washington Swamp.

    It'd be a nice two fingers to both the GOP & DNC too, and would cement Trump's status as "Anti-Establishment"


  • #77
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It was an illegal war in the first place!

    Saddam was a mass-murderer. Furthermore, your point is academic because the present Iraqi government is recognised by the international community and owes its existence to the invasion.


  • #78
    the purple tin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    Assange has boasted about hacking into secure government websites in other countries years before he hacked the American sites.

    Australia was first i think, why aren't any of those countries gunning for him? He wasn't even banned from having access to the internet which is SOP in most hacking cases.


  • #79
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They will find away that or he will be accidentally killed ,

    He's a nothing but a coward he was quick to put others in harms way with his Very one sided leaks ,he's been awfully quiet when it comes to Russia , China ,and others leaderships then he had the Gaul to hide in a foreign embassy rather than stand up in court where he would actually have a louder voice .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #80
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Mike Murdock wrote: »
    That Assange is an enemy of the Deep State/Washington Swamp.

    It'd be a nice two fingers to both the GOP & DNC too, and would cement Trump's status as "Anti-Establishment"

    Trump not anti- establishment, that’s a myth. For example. Mike Pompeo, trump, right-hand man and a former CIA director.. Pompeo always talking down about America's enemies online and that includes Russia. Trump truly hated the deep state, pompeo be sacked years ago.

    Do you believe Trump was the only one who wanted to take out Irans top general? Come on.

    The intelligence community also spun a yarn, and people began to doubt Assange and who he worked for. When you believe Russiagate, you believe almost anything. Intelligence community in the US used that to their advantage, unfortunately, people accepted it since was in line with their thinking about Russia hacking election in 2016.


  • #81
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Gatling wrote: »
    They will find away that or he will be accidentally killed ,

    He's a nothing but a coward he was quick to put others in harms way with his Very one sided leaks ,he's been awfully quiet when it comes to Russia , China ,and others leaderships then he had the Gaul to hide in a foreign embassy rather than stand up in court where he would actually have a louder voice .

    Why would you say it's 'one sided'. What's to stop the US simply putting their case?

    If he thinks the US done wrong - he's hardly going to be concerned about putting US personnel in harms way - in the same way if one uncovered stuff from China you'd hardly be concerned about putting Chinese government operatives in harms way.


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  • #82
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Why would you say it's 'one sided'. What's to stop the US simply putting their case?

    If he thinks the US done wrong - he's hardly going to be concerned about

    Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

    We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #83
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Gatling wrote: »
    Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

    We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

    God help anyone in your life who comes to you for help with mental health difficulties.


  • #84
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Gatling wrote: »
    Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

    We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

    In general, when one focuses on the personality, rather than the bigger issue, I sorta small a ...tactic. I certainly think this is true in family/personal disputes.

    You say 'we know what America did'...but do we. We might know some of it but what about the bits we don't know. That's really what all this is about.

    I am playing devils with you here a bit G, but really, in this murky world, even in a best of the worst capitalist world, I admire ppl who call things out. Especially when it comes to killings. I don't really care about the personality of those that did it, as you are focusing on. Unless there is an ulterior motive, which you are welcome to argue. But I do think you are being a bit harsh on Assange.

    I get the 'putting people in danger' grievance. But at the same time you're talking about the people who Assange says carried out unlawfull killings. So yeah, it's a tricky one.


  • #85
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AllForIt wrote: »
    In general, when one focuses on the personality, rather than the bigger issue, I sorta small a ...tactic. I certainly think this is true in family/personal disputes.

    You say 'we know what America did'...but do we. We might know some of it but what about the bits we don't know. That's really what all this is about.

    I am playing devils with you here a bit G, but really, in this murky world, even in a best of the worst capitalist world, I admire ppl who call things out. Especially when it comes to killings. I don't really care about the personality of those that did it, as you are focusing on. Unless there is an ulterior motive, which you are welcome to argue. But I do think you are being a bit harsh on Assange.

    I get the 'putting people in danger' grievance. But at the same time you're talking about the people who Assange says carried out unlawfull killings. So yeah, it's a tricky one.

    Assange dumped everything he had. He had no idea what was in the files he released. He had no idea that the people named in those files had carried out unlawful killings. neither do you. Given where his mate snowden ended up it is not a stretch to suggest assange was acting on behalf of the russian state.


  • #86
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Gatling wrote: »
    Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

    We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

    We know what America did because Assange released the files.

    So, would you be fine with Assange releasing the America files if he also released Russian and Chinese files?


  • #87
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    We know what America did because Assange released the files.

    So, would you be fine with Assange releasing the America files if he also released Russian and Chinese files?

    WikiLeaks has released files about Russia's surveillance of its population. It similar to Snowden revelations.

    https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/


  • #88
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.


  • #89
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    political analyst wrote: »
    Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

    assange had not been convicted so the analogy doesn't work.


  • #90
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    political analyst wrote: »
    Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

    There are some who think the rape allegations were only a ruse to get Assange into a country where he could be extradited to the US.


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  • #91
    Hoboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There are some who think the rape allegations were only a ruse to get Assange into a country where he could be extradited to the US.

    And the evidence would suggest they are right.


  • #92
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    The US judicial system is a nasty regime. Justice is very selective depending on the state.
    Assange won't get a fair trial in the US.
    There is a black guy serving 60 years without parole for selling weed. He has already served 25 years of this sentence.
    It's this carry on that makes it a particularly repressive and nasty regime. Justice is selective.


  • #93
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    political analyst wrote: »
    Saddam was a mass-murderer. Furthermore, your point is academic because the present Iraqi government is recognised by the international community and owes its existence to the invasion.

    Well you could say the same about Bush and Blair given all the murder and chaos they caused in the Middle East after the 11th of the 9th. I think something like half a million people have died in Iraq since 2003.
    There was a BBC doc called Once Upon a Time in Iraq recently, it's really excellent, gives the perspective of all of those involved.


  • #94
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well you could say the same about Bush and Blair given all the murder and chaos they caused in the Middle East after the 11th of the 9th. I think something like half a million people have died in Iraq since 2003.
    There was a BBC doc called Once Upon a Time in Iraq recently, it's really excellent, gives the perspective of all of those involved.

    Most of the people who have died in violence in Iraq since 2003 were killed by Sunni and Shia militants. The conflict between both Islamic denominations started a millennium before the US was even founded!


  • #95
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Just a really nice tweet from his fiancée

    https://twitter.com/StellaMoris1/status/1346741593953497091?s=20


  • #96
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭political analyst


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    The US judicial system is a nasty regime. Justice is very selective depending on the state.
    Assange won't get a fair trial in the US.
    There is a black guy serving 60 years without parole for selling weed. He has already served 25 years of this sentence.
    It's this carry on that makes it a particularly repressive and nasty regime. Justice is selective.

    https://www.thebluntness.com/posts/help-free-michigan-s-michael-thompson-still-in-jail-26-years-after-selling-weed-in-legal-state
    After spending 25 years of his life behind bars, Michael Thompson's sentence has been commuted by the Governor of Michigan.


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  • #97
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Assange dumped everything he had. He had no idea what was in the files he released. He had no idea that the people named in those files had carried out unlawful killings. neither do you. Given where his mate snowden ended up it is not a stretch to suggest assange was acting on behalf of the russian state.

    Okay then. So, by what means, democratically, do we get to know what goes on?

    How, in so a called open transparent democracy can all actions taken by the government be revealed.

    Answer is there is no way and never will be a way, and when stuff is leaked it can only be done by ppl like Assange and Snowden, where all we will hear is criticism of their methods from those who don't want anything revealed at all. I don't really see much difference between those kinds of people and 'the Russians'.


  • #98
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    biko wrote: »
    Just a really nice tweet from his fiancée

    Wonder what the view from his cell looks like ,
    Not like he's going anywhere while the US appeals the decision
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #99
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    political analyst wrote: »
    Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

    It didn't 'run out' as you put it, that is the way it was spun and thus your confusion.


    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/19/sweden-drops-julian-assange-investigation
    “After conducting a comprehensive assessment of what has emerged during the course of the preliminary investigation I then make the assessment that the evidence is not strong enough to form the basis for filing an indictment,” Persson said. An appeal against the decision could be made to the office of Sweden’s attorney general, she added.

    No appeal was made to keep it 'live'. That's why this issue is over.


  • #100
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Okay then. So, by what means, democratically, do we get to know what goes on?

    How, in so a called open transparent democracy can all actions taken by the government be revealed.

    Answer is there is no way and never will be a way, and when stuff is leaked it can only be done by ppl like Assange and Snowden, where all we will hear is criticism of their methods from those who don't want anything revealed at all. I don't really see much difference between those kinds of people and 'the Russians'.

    you've heard of whistleblowers? snowden and assange were not whistleblowers. they just dumped everything that was stolen. they had no idea what lives or even how many they put in danger. that isn't journalism.


  • #101
    Rene Stale Pimple
    Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Rene Stale Pimple


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you've heard of whistleblowers? snowden and assange were not whistleblowers. they just dumped everything that was stolen. they had no idea what lives or even how many they put in danger. that isn't journalism.

    A barefaced lie.


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