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Julian Assange cannot be extradited - Oh yes he can...

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I might have if you weren't so insistent and weird about it. Move on. Also Seamus above has answered.

    If you keep avoiding the question with all of your posts, then how else can I get you to answer your question without being insistent?

    The only thing I can think of is that you realised you don't agree with your original statement but don't care to admit it on the internet, would that be accurate?

    Or would you like to try and tackle the question I left Seamus?

    (I'm aware that this is derailing the thread slightly, but I find this logic from you fascinating.)


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    They cited his risk of suicide as the reason.
    With the threat now gone, that risk I assume is also gone.

    We're not talking about Assange, we're talking about Thelonious Monk's general statement about extradition. :)


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    #34
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are honestly saying that, if I present you with the option of either being extradited for a petty crime or e.g. being diagnosed with brain cancer, it would be a "toss up" of which you would prefer?
    You're moving the goal posts. Aggravated assault is not a petty crime and brain cancer is not a mental health issue.

    Are you telling me that if you had the choice of being extradited to the US to be charged with armed robbery or having depression, you'd rather roll the dice in the US?


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    #35
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Hm, let's see why would anyone not want even a chance of going to prison in the US.. I wonder what the old sexual assault statistics look like..


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    You're moving the goal posts. Aggravated assault is not a petty crime and brain cancer is not a mental health issue.

    Are you telling me that if you had the choice of being extradited to the US to be charged with armed robbery or having depression, you'd rather roll the dice in the US?

    Not moving the goalposts, I'm replying to this statement.
    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I think most people would rather anything over being extradited to the US.

    which does not mention mental health.

    Do you disagree with this generalised statement by Thelonious Monk then, based on my above example?


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    #37
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I think it is a fudge, but I doubt he cares. He has been through hard times to get to where he is. He would not be fairly treated in the US. I would prefer to see the British Legal system accept that reality and make an appropriate judgement based on that reality. That would be real justice. But fair play to the British judge, she could easily extradite him but she has used her ability to save his ass - fair play.

    To successfully appeal I would imagine the Hawks will have to prove that they can incarcerate him humanely despite his mental illness, not easy. They have 15 days.

    I am delighted for him and phuck the Hawks.


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    #38
    manonboard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭manonboard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you keep avoiding the question with all of your posts, then how else can I get you to answer your question without being insistent?

    Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.


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    #39
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,877 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    manonboard wrote: »
    Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.

    Sealioning. I wouldn't mind only it's a bloody ridiculously hypothetical situation we're talking about that really doesn't matter to the thread at all.

    2014-09-19-1062sea.png


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    #40
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,220 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    From another thread:

    For many it's simply unacceptable to be wrong on the internet so what they need is an unbeatable tactic that allows them to shut down any argument they can't win.
    It's like a sort of intellectual "parking the bus".

    Seems to fit the bill for much of the stuff here.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #41
    the purple tin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    They cited his risk of suicide as the reason.
    With the threat now gone, that risk I assume is also gone.
    It was the same with the Scottish hacker McKinnon a few years ago. He has aspergers and would always be a high suicide risk if extradited. Theresa May said it wasn't happening.

    The yanks won't let it drop though and are still gunning for him.


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    #42
    manonboard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭manonboard


    I'm really surprised that he was not extradited. If he was deemed not to be fit for it now, does anyone know if he will be allowed to leave the UK before the appeal is over? Do they hold you until all appeals are done?

    As he is a flight risk (embassy hopping), will they keep him locked up?

    The stuff i read over the years about his declining mental health has been terrible. I suspect he is a shell of who he once was. I'm delighted he has a family and partner to go back to. I hope he lets it all go and just gets on with life and regains his wellness.

    I think he clearly broke many laws, but the world was more honest for it.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    manonboard wrote: »
    Stop being creepy. If someone doesn't want to talk to you or explain something to you, just let it go. It's seriously weird you acknowledge you are being told to go away and still keep quoting them for more communication. Don't ever choose being creepy. It's never the right answer.

    Butting in to a discussion you are not a part of is no different.

    This is a discussion forum. That person is perfectly OK with replying when they can think of something to make them seem right, but then go radio silent when they realise they may be wrong. That is not what a discussion is.


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    #44
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I think this is great news. Some of the things that were revealed by wikileaks needed to be seen. Massacring Iraqi civilians in cold blood. It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

    Some of the men on the ground had RPGs and the Apache helicopter crewmen didn't know that there were journalists in that group of people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike#Reactions_to_the_video_footage


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you would personally rather have serious health issues than be extradited to the US?

    he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.


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    #46
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,877 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    political analyst wrote: »
    Some of the men on the ground had RPGs and the Apache helicopter crewmen didn't know that there were journalists in that group of people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike#Reactions_to_the_video_footage

    It was an illegal war in the first place!


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MFPM wrote: »
    Fantastic news. I wasn't expecting this result. Smack in the mouth for US imperialism, they'll appeal of course but a great result nonetheless.

    Irish media started covering the story in the last 24 hours having effectively ignoring it when the hearing was taking place.

    Well there was Covid and BLM to talk about so nothing else was happening.


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    #48
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    They might try to do a swap. Assange for the one who killed the cyclist

    That would be great for that family and is certainly something that the Americans and British should look into.
    Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
    Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #49
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,114 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    AMKC wrote: »
    That would be great for that family and is certainly something that the Americans and British should look into.
    Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
    Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited






    Assange provided a platform for others.

    The question is where does journalism begin and spying end or vice-versa


    If Assange was publishing dodgy things the Chinese or Russians might have done and was currently living in NY, I don't think the US would be responding to extradition requests for him


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.

    Again, I'm not talking about Assange.


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    #51
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,647 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Deleted User wrote: »
    he probably has serious health issues because of the isolation and the fear of the extradition that his process put him in. Thus this question is circular.
    So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do I think what Assange done was right. No not in the slightest. He exposed secrets and made our society in the west less safe. If the American military or any other Milatery committed atrocities then it was for them and the Governmant to hand out punishment to the ones who done it and none of our business.
    Assange has no one to blame for his mental health problems but himself. He should be extradited

    America has made Europe less safe. And why is it for America alone to judge America's crimes, if America wants to be world policeman.

    Contrast the extradition request for Assange with the release of Pollard. Assange didn't reveal much that would have made American spies more vulnerable, Pollard did, and at the height of the Cold War too. Yet he gets a heroes welcome in Israel.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    AMKC wrote: »
    So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

    He was doing what used to be called journalism. The US in engaging in what used to be called Totalitarianism.


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    #54
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Again, I'm not talking about Assange.

    Wrong thread so.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Wrong thread so.

    Which I also mentioned. ;)


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    #56
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I'm very glad to hear this. Hopefully the ruling won't be overturned by some other instance/judge.


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    #57
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,560 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are honestly saying that, if I present you with the option of either being extradited for a petty crime or e.g. being diagnosed with brain cancer, it would be a "toss up" of which you would prefer?


    You could win an olympic gold medal in strawman arguments.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    osarusan wrote: »
    You could win an olympic gold medal in strawman arguments.

    I see a lot of people posting witty responses but no one actually answering my questions. :p


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    #59
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see a lot of people posting witty responses but no one actually answering my questions. :p

    maybe because the question is a false dilemma fallacy and not relevant to the thread.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    maybe because the question is an excluded middle fallacy and not relevant to the thread.

    Witty responses are also not relevant. If derailing the thread with witty responses is considered fine, I'm sure serious responses are also fine.


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    #61
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Witty responses are also not relevant. If derailing the thread with witty responses is considered fine, I'm sure serious responses are also fine.

    anything relevant to say about assange?

    I'll start. This is only a temporary reprieve for assange. the judgement will be appealed and he might not be so lucky the next time.


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