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Julian Assange cannot be extradited - Oh yes he can...

Thelonious Monk

I think this is great news. Some of the things that were revealed by wikileaks needed to be seen. Massacring Iraqi civilians in cold blood. It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

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[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

anything relevant to say about assange?

I'll start. This is only a temporary reprieve for assange. the judgement will be appealed and he might not be so lucky the next time.

Yes, I have already given my opinion about this ruling, thank you for asking.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115798611&postcount=7

Someone then went on to to make an outlandish generalised comment about extradition without backing up their opinion. And apparently it's ok to make such a comment but not to question it.

handlemaster

I would be surprised if Trump doesn't use his powers of clemency on him. It falls into his mistrust of the former administrations, would give Trump headlines and also distract from the loss of the presidency in some form.

Thelonious Monk

Let's not forget Trump pardoned Blackwater contractors last month, who opened fire on unarmed civilians killing 14 of them including children. Scot free.

[Deleted User]

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Let's not forget Trump pardoned Blackwater contractors last month, who opened fire on unarmed civilians killing 14 of them including children. Scot free.

Yep, Trump is firmly on the other side here

[Deleted User]

Trump isn't going to pardon Assange. Well not until his next term anyway.

Maybe after Jan 21 :-p

Manic Moran

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's great news forthe freedom of the press and I'm glad someone stood up to the US murderous bullies

I don' see any relevance to freedom of the press in the ruling. From the BBC's legal analyst:

"District Judge Vanessa Baraitser explicitly concluded that Mr Assange should answer allegations that he aided and abetted hacking, theft and the disclosure of the identities of informants working for the US security agencies - disclosures that endangered their lives.

In English law, that would be enough for him to be charged with a crime here - and so the route was open for Mr Assange to face trial for the same in the United States.

If his 'freedom' had to be demonstrated by being locked up in an embassy for years, and then being a suicide threat, you have an odd definition of freedom of the press. Or, to put it as the judge did, sufficiently free that if he did it in the to the UK and not the US, there'd be no question of his facing trial for his actions.

If the US can demonstrate in its appeal that equivalent services to those found in Belmarsh prison can be provided.then off he goes, with no further attentions paid to press privileges.

Thelonious Monk

Manic Moran wrote: »

If the US can demonstrate in its appeal that equivalent services to those found in Belmarsh prison can be provided.then off he goes, with no further attentions paid to press privileges.

I'm hoping the judge used whatever she could to keep him from being extradited, anything to keep him from your lot! Although it also looks like she would have if he wasn't a suicide threat.

Donald Trump

riffmongous wrote: »

Yep, Trump is firmly on the other side here

I love the oul' wikileaks meself

end of the road

AMKC wrote: »

So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

yeah, he should have kept his mouth shut, let the US military get on with their murdering and increase the terrorism risk.
brilliant logic.

Manic Moran

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, he should have kept his mouth shut, let the US military get on with their murdering and increase the terrorism risk.
brilliant logic.

The protections given to whistleblowers tend to be related only to the 'confidential' information released which is relevant to the activity requiring attention and necessary for bringing it to light. If someone leaked confidential information on worker abuse in Coca Cola and simultaneously released the secret recipe for the stuff, they would be held liable for the un-necessary leak even whilst being protected for the leak on worker abuse.

Wikileaks did no editorializing and just did a total data dump, good or bad. There is also the matter of incitement of breach of security as opposed to a journalist merely processing information which as brought to him without his involvement in the acquisition process.

Like with Snowden, there are acceptable ways of bringing these issues to light, and there are unacceptable ways. Someone with good judgement can identify the one from the other.

Hangdogroad

handlemaster wrote: »

I would be surprised if Trump doesn't use his powers of clemency on him. It falls into his mistrust of the former administrations, would give Trump headlines and also distract from the loss of the presidency in some form.

That's what I think as well. A populist move that would be right up his street.

ohnonotgmail

Hangdogroad wrote: »

That's what I think as well. A populist move that would be right up his street.

Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.

MFPM

AMKC wrote: »

So no ones fault but his own then. Thought sh,it. Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him.

Maybe he should not have exposed all them leaks and he could have been living his life the last decade or so and not be the mess he us now. I certainly have no sympathy for him

What an odd moral judgement.

Hangdogroad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.

Assange is one of those figures who I often see popping up in the FB feed of conspiracy theorist types, people who are always on about the new world order, illuminati etc. They often belong to that odd gray area where they embrace ideas both espoused by the right and left.

Mike Murdock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Populist with who? I can't see trumps base giving a monkeys about assange.

That Assange is an enemy of the Deep State/Washington Swamp.

It'd be a nice two fingers to both the GOP & DNC too, and would cement Trump's status as "Anti-Establishment"

political analyst

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It was an illegal war in the first place!

Saddam was a mass-murderer. Furthermore, your point is academic because the present Iraqi government is recognised by the international community and owes its existence to the invasion.

the purple tin

Assange has boasted about hacking into secure government websites in other countries years before he hacked the American sites.

Australia was first i think, why aren't any of those countries gunning for him? He wasn't even banned from having access to the internet which is SOP in most hacking cases.

Gatling

They will find away that or he will be accidentally killed ,

He's a nothing but a coward he was quick to put others in harms way with his Very one sided leaks ,he's been awfully quiet when it comes to Russia , China ,and others leaderships then he had the Gaul to hide in a foreign embassy rather than stand up in court where he would actually have a louder voice .

Cheerful Spring2

Mike Murdock wrote: »

That Assange is an enemy of the Deep State/Washington Swamp.

It'd be a nice two fingers to both the GOP & DNC too, and would cement Trump's status as "Anti-Establishment"

Trump not anti- establishment, that’s a myth. For example. Mike Pompeo, trump, right-hand man and a former CIA director.. Pompeo always talking down about America's enemies online and that includes Russia. Trump truly hated the deep state, pompeo be sacked years ago.

Do you believe Trump was the only one who wanted to take out Irans top general? Come on.

The intelligence community also spun a yarn, and people began to doubt Assange and who he worked for. When you believe Russiagate, you believe almost anything. Intelligence community in the US used that to their advantage, unfortunately, people accepted it since was in line with their thinking about Russia hacking election in 2016.

AllForIt

Gatling wrote: »

They will find away that or he will be accidentally killed ,

He's a nothing but a coward he was quick to put others in harms way with his Very one sided leaks ,he's been awfully quiet when it comes to Russia , China ,and others leaderships then he had the Gaul to hide in a foreign embassy rather than stand up in court where he would actually have a louder voice .

Why would you say it's 'one sided'. What's to stop the US simply putting their case?

If he thinks the US done wrong - he's hardly going to be concerned about putting US personnel in harms way - in the same way if one uncovered stuff from China you'd hardly be concerned about putting Chinese government operatives in harms way.

Gatling

AllForIt wrote: »

Why would you say it's 'one sided'. What's to stop the US simply putting their case?

If he thinks the US done wrong - he's hardly going to be concerned about

Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

Tell me how

Gatling wrote: »

Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

God help anyone in your life who comes to you for help with mental health difficulties.

AllForIt

Gatling wrote: »

Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

In general, when one focuses on the personality, rather than the bigger issue, I sorta small a ...tactic. I certainly think this is true in family/personal disputes.

You say 'we know what America did'...but do we. We might know some of it but what about the bits we don't know. That's really what all this is about.

I am playing devils with you here a bit G, but really, in this murky world, even in a best of the worst capitalist world, I admire ppl who call things out. Especially when it comes to killings. I don't really care about the personality of those that did it, as you are focusing on. Unless there is an ulterior motive, which you are welcome to argue. But I do think you are being a bit harsh on Assange.

I get the 'putting people in danger' grievance. But at the same time you're talking about the people who Assange says carried out unlawfull killings. So yeah, it's a tricky one.

ohnonotgmail

AllForIt wrote: »

In general, when one focuses on the personality, rather than the bigger issue, I sorta small a ...tactic. I certainly think this is true in family/personal disputes.

You say 'we know what America did'...but do we. We might know some of it but what about the bits we don't know. That's really what all this is about.

I am playing devils with you here a bit G, but really, in this murky world, even in a best of the worst capitalist world, I admire ppl who call things out. Especially when it comes to killings. I don't really care about the personality of those that did it, as you are focusing on. Unless there is an ulterior motive, which you are welcome to argue. But I do think you are being a bit harsh on Assange.

I get the 'putting people in danger' grievance. But at the same time you're talking about the people who Assange says carried out unlawfull killings. So yeah, it's a tricky one.

Assange dumped everything he had. He had no idea what was in the files he released. He had no idea that the people named in those files had carried out unlawful killings. neither do you. Given where his mate snowden ended up it is not a stretch to suggest assange was acting on behalf of the russian state.

BattleCorp

Gatling wrote: »

Anything but himself ,he's a coward threating suicide makes him even worse ,a sniblling coward it's was alright for others to face the consequences of this actions but not little Julian , he's crying saying I'll hurt myself if you send me away.

We know what America did ,but others have done similar in cases worse ,but where was himself oh yeah murica did this and murica did that .

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it eventually turns out he's got a state backer that supported the leaks to harm America

We know what America did because Assange released the files.

So, would you be fine with Assange releasing the America files if he also released Russian and Chinese files?

Cheerful Spring2

BattleCorp wrote: »

We know what America did because Assange released the files.

So, would you be fine with Assange releasing the America files if he also released Russian and Chinese files?

WikiLeaks has released files about Russia's surveillance of its population. It similar to Snowden revelations.

https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/

political analyst

Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

ohnonotgmail

political analyst wrote: »

Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

assange had not been convicted so the analogy doesn't work.

BattleCorp

political analyst wrote: »

Assange wouldn't be in prison if he hadn't jumped bail on the rape charges that the Swedish prosecutor had brought against him. I'm puzzled that the time-limit on the charges under Swedish law still ran out when he was in the Ecuadorean embassy because on would have thought that, legally, "the clock would have stopped", which is what happens in the UK and Ireland with a prison sentence when a convicted criminal on temporary release absconds.

There are some who think the rape allegations were only a ruse to get Assange into a country where he could be extradited to the US.

Hoboo

BattleCorp wrote: »

There are some who think the rape allegations were only a ruse to get Assange into a country where he could be extradited to the US.

And the evidence would suggest they are right.