Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

ExMachina1000 · 02-01-2021 5:29pm

Discodog wrote: »

Yes but the comments will remain. If I wanted to show a kid how racist the Irish are there are hundreds of posts to support that opinion.

Did you see the real life people outside the spar shop banging on the shutters while chanting " you white bastards "

Real life racism. Did you see the clip?

Discodog · 02-01-2021 5:40pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Did you see the real life people outside the spar shop banging on the shutters while chanting " you white bastards "

Real life racism. Did you see the clip?

You are just rerunning the thread. This is feedback.

I am pointing out that the "it will die down soon" argument is rather moot.

TomTomTim · 02-01-2021 5:59pm

Discodog wrote: »

You are just rerunning the thread. This is feedback.

I am pointing out that the "it will die down soon" argument is rather moot.

As suspected, clear cut racism from minorities is grand, yet you foam at the mouth at imagined racism everyday.

Gatling · 02-01-2021 6:04pm

Discodog wrote: »

Yes but the comments will remain. If I wanted to show a kid how racist the Irish are there are hundreds of posts to support that opinion.

What's usually claimed what's posted in theses cases usually is proven wrong or shown to be false ,
People contestantly claiming racist posts to get threads shut down doesn't help ,
You have posted multiple times calling for CA to be closed full stop,
Posts are getting reported if they are not removed it's obvious they are not racist posts ,
This whole idea boards should be a sterile chamber for liberals who don't want anything contensious discussed without them calling everyone phobe ,phobe that ,ist this and that .
Very one sided views

Discodog · 02-01-2021 6:11pm

TomTomTim wrote: »

As suspected, clear cut racism from minorities is grand, yet you foam at the mouth at imagined racism everyday.

This is feedback but feel free to continue on the actual thread.

See if you can find one post, from me, apart from today with any mention of racism in it ?

Discodog · 02-01-2021 6:20pm

Gatling wrote: »

What's usually claimed what's posted in theses cases usually is proven wrong or shown to be false ,
People contestantly claiming racist posts to get threads shut down doesn't help ,
You have posted multiple times calling for CA to be closed full stop,
Posts are getting reported if they are not removed it's obvious they are not racist posts ,
This whole idea boards should be a sterile chamber for liberals who don't want anything contensious discussed without them calling everyone phobe ,phobe that ,ist this and that .
Very one sided views

I haven't called for it's closure. I have suggested an alternative for those who want it.

If a post is still there it doesn't mean that it's not racist. Boards haven't defined what they consider racist & it's left to each Moderators discretion.

I am not calling for the closure of discussion. I think that these threads serve a purpose in that it's better that views are in the open. As usual it's not about what is discussed but how it's discussed. Referring to people as scum, stating pages of, so called facts, without any link or evidence shouldn't be part of Boards.

02-01-2021 6:32pm

Discodog wrote: »

If I wanted to show a kid how racist the Irish are

Seems little doubt that you have some angle of intent in this direction. Strange way to look at things, picking out elements and not the measure of the fray entire.

You could find posts on any topic to demonstrate any opinion on boards, im sure.

Focusing on only certain ones, without context, oof thats not particularly demonstrative of anything really, is it?

Discodog · 02-01-2021 6:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Seems little doubt that you have some angle of intent in this direction. Strange way to look at things, picking out elements and not the measure of the fray entire.

You could find posts on any topic to demonstrate any opinion on boards, im sure.

Focusing on only certain ones, without context, oof thats not particularly demonstrative of anything really, is it?

I have no angles of intent (whatever they are) & like others, you leap to conclusions. I am merely pointing out that, if a group choose to label Ireland as racist, they would find plenty of ammunition here. Either the views represent the majority or those that oppose them don't bother to post. I guess it's about which side shouts loudest.

Most issues outside of CA & possibly Soccer are discussed without the use of abuse. Any viewer gets to see both sides & way up any arguments. But CA is the popular place & with some topics very one sided.

There are certain issues that act as triggers, such as immigration, travellers, even RTE, that are guaranteed to unleash the hoards. Anyone who opposes the masses are regarded with absolute derision.

Gatling · 02-01-2021 6:44pm

Discodog wrote: »

If a post is still there it doesn't mean that it's not racist. Boards haven't defined what they consider racist & it's left to each Moderators discretion.

It means exactly that it's not racist ,there is already a full legal definition of racism ,the problem is when a number of posters decide everything is racism , mention immigration it's racism , mention gangs running amok all across the country (based off LA and London street gangs) thats racism , discuss dp and if you don't agree with it that's racist too .
Seems very much people just want nothing be discussed that they don't like .

Maybe someone with money can start a sterile echo chamber alternative to boards

Discodog · 02-01-2021 7:05pm

Gatling wrote: »

It means exactly that it's not racist ,there is already a full legal definition of racism ,the problem is when a number of posters decide everything is racism , mention immigration it's racism , mention gangs running amok all across the country (based off LA and London street gangs) thats racism , discuss dp and if you don't agree with it that's racist too .
Seems very much people just want nothing be discussed that they don't like .

Maybe someone with money can start a sterile echo chamber alternative to boards

Give a legal definition of racism that isn't subject to interpretation.

I actually agree that it is used too often. But there's also those that deny it's existence. I don't see any sign of Boards bowing to the "liberals" you refer to.

I think some want to ban discussion but there are also those who avoid trying to discuss things in CA, when it's one of the trigger subjects, because they immediately turn into echo chambers. You can guess the posts just by reading the thread title - you don't need to read them.

But, as we used to be told, Boards isn't about free speech & never has been. There are increasing moves to make publishers even more responsible for what they publish. The only thing that "saves" the Garda shooting thread is that the guy is dead & won't be put on trial.

Gatling · 02-01-2021 9:00pm

Discodog wrote: »

Give a legal definition of racism that isn't subject to interpretation.

"Subject to interpretation "

That's the issue people using their own interpretation of a word to get one up or get discussions shut down that Posting in poor faith, even trolling .

No wonder mods are finding it hard to sort some of the nonsense out , mod in my interpretation the poster said some bold ,mod you need to do this or else .

02-01-2021 9:11pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

There is nowhere near enough bans and some of the posts left in those threads about the man who died, and anyone that remotely looks like him Is outrageous and sickening.The two threads really shame us as a society it’s almost like we have been brainwashed by Joseph Goebells to paint any non white irish as an enemy. Awful awful stuff.

You're right. We should erase any opinions that you deem racist. Thanks WHITEjesus

02-01-2021 9:12pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Did you see the real life people outside the spar shop banging on the shutters while chanting " you white bastards "

Real life racism. Did you see the clip?

That's not racism. White people have privilege or something.

02-01-2021 10:58pm

I guess if the higher-ups in Boards are happy to let CA (the IMHO bit is surely ironic, at this point) exist as it does, then that's their call.

I don't think it's a great look to have so many questionable threads and posts hanging about on the site, but I'm free to ignore them and not post in those threads. As are we all.

Beasty · 02-01-2021 11:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess if the higher-ups in Boards are happy to let CA (the IMHO bit is surely ironic, at this point) exist as it does, then that's their call.

I don't think it's a great look to have so many questionable threads and posts hanging about on the site, but I'm free to ignore them and not post in those threads. As are we all.

It's a lot easier to "manage" if all this sort of stuff is kept in the one place. Previously AH was a host for such commentary, but that ended up detracting from that forum. We have Admins as mods in CA. We can intervene at a forum or site level when appropriate.

Yes we see extreme views. Sometimes we do not see stuff because the forum is so busy (and the addition of the Coronavirus forum has taken a lot of mod time up). There are some threads which regularly push the limits, but it is better concentrating it in the one place. That allows AH to be a home for a bit more banter. Politics to be a home for some very serious analytical discussion, and posters can ignore CA if they do find a lot of it distasteful

And yes there have been bannings dished out at forum and site level. It's easier if some of us Admins can see how discussions evolve and who some of the protagonists are and we can intervene a little sooner if action at site level is appropriate

However we are not going to censor for the sake of it. We will allow discussion from any end of the political spectrum. As I've already said we will clamp down on some of the extreme stuff, but we do find a very wide range of what posters themselves consider "appropriate"

02-01-2021 11:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess if the higher-ups in Boards are happy to let CA (the IMHO bit is surely ironic, at this point) exist as it does, then that's their call.

I don't think it's a great look to have so many questionable threads and posts hanging about on the site, but I'm free to ignore them and not post in those threads. As are we all.

Questionable posts and threads? Man, anything overtly racist is dealt with. What questionable threads are you talking about? Ones you don't agree with?

02-01-2021 11:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Questionable posts and threads? Man, anything overtly racist is dealt with. What questionable threads are you talking about? Ones you don't agree with?

Just things that I read and immediately just frown and think "why would you post that?"

coinop · 03-01-2021 7:17am

It never ceases to amaze me to witness users of an internet discussion site begging to be censored, to have their freedom of expression restricted and for threads to be shut down. There must be a sadomasochist aspect in the Irish national psyche where we loved to be bullied and pushed around. First under the British, then the Catholic Church, then our EU overlords. Even on internet fora, posters waste precocious time lobbying mods to shut down discussion. Why do they feel so threatened by ideas that challenge their preconceived notions? I consider myself a well-travelled denizen of the internet, having participated in many different internet communities over the past two decades, but I've never experienced the professional moaning that some Irish users specialize in other than on here. It's understandable that mods eventually become frustrated and capitulate to the perpetually outraged mob but I ask that they consider an alternative view: tell them if they don't like it, fack off.

coinop · 03-01-2021 7:21am

Discodog wrote: »

If I wanted to show a kid how racist the Irish are there are hundreds of posts to support that opinion.

Oh no! What will the neighbours think (!)

Discodog · 03-01-2021 10:27am

coinop wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me to witness users of an internet discussion site begging to be censored, to have their freedom of expression restricted and for threads to be shut down. There must be a sadomasochist aspect in the Irish national psyche where we loved to be bullied and pushed around. First under the British, then the Catholic Church, then our EU overlords. Even on internet fora, posters waste precocious time lobbying mods to shut down discussion. Why do they feel so threatened by ideas that challenge their preconceived notions? I consider myself a well-travelled denizen of the internet, having participated in many different internet communities over the past two decades, but I've never experienced the professional moaning that some Irish users specialize in other than on here. It's understandable that mods eventually become frustrated and capitulate to the perpetually outraged mob but I ask that they consider an alternative view: tell them if they don't like it, fack off.

Where has anyone said that ? Boards has always been censored & every significant discussion site is. You speak of bullying & pushing around yet ignore that much of this can be online by people claiming to just be expressing their opinion.

You are a screen name here. If, for example, your real name was used would you be happy if people said that you had a criminal record, even if you didn't, with no proof to back it up ? Does the truth matter ?

In addition, An Garda Síochána is "very concerned" by "lies" being circulated widely online by "fascists and racists" falsely stating that the dead man, who had mental health problems, had more than 30 criminal convictions.

In fact the 27-year-old had no criminal convictions at all.

"Unfortunately these lies went viral and lots of right-minded people in society think the dead man was a criminal when he was not. All of these things stoke the fires of racial tension."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-worry-over-nkencho-shooting-lies-39924798.html

Contrary to popular opinion, rather than being known to the Gardai as a criminal, it turns out that he was know because of his mental health condition.

Garda sources have confirmed Mr Nkencho was known to suffer from mental illness and that officers have been called to the house several times to deal with “mental health and domestic issues”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/george-nkencho-shooting-inquiry-will-look-at-graduated-use-of-force-1.4448355

Davaeo09 · 03-01-2021 11:24am

Jesus it's a pitty he didn't seek for all of his mental problems isn't it?

Such a pitty.

Discodog · 03-01-2021 12:40pm

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Jesus it's a pitty he didn't seek for all of his mental problems isn't it?

Such a pitty.

So you can prove that he or his family didn't ? Or is this more of the damaging speculation that the Gardai are concerned about ?

03-01-2021 2:43pm

Scene: shop in hartstown

Scenario: you're on the floor getting battered. Audience may or may not know the assailant has a knife, depending on the version of the movie you're seeing

Action: discodog bursts in

discdog: "dont worry! he hasnt any *convictions*"

Nobody owns the truth and nobody owns the angle on a wide reaching current affairs topic mired in controversy and moving quickly.

The type of narrowing and nitpicking parodied above is an attempt at narrative control and protests to allow narrative control only in the direction one would wish (eg question cops, assaulted staff all day without recourse to fairness or logic but the fella with the knife and the past full of troubling episodes is unquestionable as an actor) is absolutely an attempt at censorship

Mods are quite rightly not having that.

The issue raised remains the same- "how dare anyone disagree with me"

If you think that "they may disagree with me but only in the manner and style of which i approve" is a whit different to the above then sorry, you're wrong.

Discodog · 03-01-2021 3:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Scene: shop in hartstown

Scenario: you're on the floor getting battered. Audience may or may not know the assailant has a knife, depending on the version of the movie you're seeing

Action: discodog bursts in

discdog: "dont worry! he hasnt any *convictions*"

Nobody owns the truth and nobody owns the angle on a wide reaching current affairs topic mired in controversy and moving quickly.

The type of narrowing and nitpicking parodied above is an attempt at narrative control and protests to allow narrative control only in the direction one would wish (eg question cops, assaulted staff all day without recourse to fairness or logic but the fella with the knife and the past full of troubling episodes is unquestionable as an actor) is absolutely an attempt at censorship

Mods are quite rightly not having that.

The issue raised remains the same- "how dare anyone disagree with me"

If you think that "they may disagree with me but only in the manner and style of which i approve" is a whit different to the above then sorry, you're wrong.

That's the whole point. If you post, saying that he had criminal convictions & it turns out he didn't, you are on very shaky ground & the site that published your comments may be too. Pleading that things were moving fast & you have a right to free speech doesn't made one iota of difference.

It not about disagreeing. It's about an age old principle that, if you state something as a fact, you back it up with evidence.

You clearly support the Guards but ignore the fact that the comments I posted above are from the Guards. They are the one's voicing concerns.

Invidious · 03-01-2021 3:11pm

Beasty wrote: »

However we are not going to censor for the sake of it. We will allow discussion from any end of the political spectrum.

Fair play to the Admins for taking this stance. Tellingly, almost 7 out of 10 Irish people feel that society has become "too politically correct" in recent years (2019 Sign of the Times survey by Behavior & Attitudes). Some threads and posts on Boards might well be "questionable," as nudain puts it ... but so what? In an era of woke censorship and cancel culture, Ireland needs a forum where a multiplicity of views can be debated robustly, frankly, and openly — rather than being preemptively censored, per RTE and the Irish Times. Well done to Boards for reflecting a broader spectrum of opinion than the Dublin 4 liberal-left is prepared to allow.

03-01-2021 3:17pm

Discodog wrote: »

That's the whole point..

For the purposes of clarity, i agree with all of this post

I think it strange to be concerned only with this aspect and not with the speculation or statements made about the gardai or the shop employees

I find it strange to be concerned so much with ensuring one element of this affair gets painted in the most protective possible light (far beyond reason) while everyone else gets thrown overboard in service of this overarching aim.

Its gloves off or it isnt, if gloves are on to the extent you argue then the logical end point is that nobody has any right to assemble in protest and nobody has any right to attack or undermine the gardai

I dont see anyone arguing it that evenly, so I guess we all want our cake and eat it too, but its only a select side that are in here demanding mod satisfaction.

Discodog · 03-01-2021 3:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

For the purposes of clarity, i agree with all of this post

I think it strange to be concerned only with this aspect and not with the speculation or statements made about the gardai or the shop employees

I find it strange to be concerned so much with ensuring one element of this affair gets painted in the most protective possible light (far beyond reason) while everyone else gets thrown overboard in service of this overarching aim.

Its gloves off or it isnt, if gloves are on to the extent you argue then the logical end point is that nobody has any right to assemble in protest and nobody has any right to attack or undermine the gardai

I dont see anyone arguing it that evenly, so I guess we all want our cake and eat it too, but its only a select side that are in here demanding mod satisfaction.

Who's demanding Mod satisfaction ? I agree that any speculation, posted as fact, is wrong regardless of whom it concerns.

I am not arguing. But there are changes afoot. There will be new laws regarding what can & can't be said. Your objections won't change this.

Sometimes "outrage" threads start with a torrent of thanks & a pile of falsehoods. Then, over time, the untruths are exposed but that's too late for those defamed. Surely the one thing we should all want is the truth or at least that "facts" are supported.

Acosta · 03-01-2021 4:15pm

The mods to a great job from my experience. Sometimes I have been surprised by some of the posts that have been left up, but I also accept others have a right to express their views and in the end this is a private forum and it's not up to me what stays up.

It is unfortunate that there is an element on boards spreading division, racial hate and so many lies around various different incidents. And it's getting worse. The current thread about the incident in Dublin is the worst I've come across in terms of the above problems since I've been posting here.
The spreading of lies in particular is a major issue in that thread. I would like if going forward, when these threads are starting that it is made clear that if people are going to post stuff relating to an incident like the one in Dublin last week, that the poster should be required to post evidence or risk being thread banned. These lies do too much damage in the community to be allowed to spread. Twitter is murder for it and it's a disgrace what is left up there.

Smee_Again · 03-01-2021 4:21pm

Lies are a big issues in the forum.

The charter prohibits posting something that you know or should know to be false yet this is rarely enforced as far as I can see, but I can understand that because often the lies themselves often become part of the discussion. It’s can also be difficult to decide what people should know to be true or false

Discodog · 03-01-2021 4:32pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Lies are a big issues in the forum.

The charter prohibits posting something that you know or should know to be false yet this is rarely enforced as far as I can see, but I can understand that because often the lies themselves often become part of the discussion. It’s can also be difficult to decide what people should know to be true or false

From the Charter :

Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.

The charter should follow the long established Boards practice that you must post a link or evidence to support a fact. Telling posters that they shouldn't post lies is pointless - unless it's there to try & absolve Boards of responsibility, especially when it couched in terms like "should know".

The practice of throwing out a "fact" & watching others run with it is as old as the hills. It's a key part of propaganda. After a couple of pages the lie is now spoken of as fact.

Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

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