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Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #4352
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Arghus wrote: »
    I kinda hate wading into the schools argument too much because everyone is very entrenched, even by the standards of the Covid debate: they're either the main driver or they are totally safe.

    My totally non-qualified opinion is that schools aren't a main driver of infection in the community, but if infections are too high then they could provide an amplifying effect. In a nutshell: if cases are low, then schools are safe, if Covid is spreading wildly they aren't.

    In the context or where we are now, I think an argument can be made for closing them, at least in this most acute phase.

    Basically I think the only thing that will get this situation under control again is, unfortunately, a March style lockdown. I fully expect people to jump down my throat but just, take a breath, look at the basic black and white facts:

    Totally uncontrolled spread
    Collapsed testing and tracing system
    Hospital system on a trajectory for collapse
    Numbers that will get worse
    Kites already been flown about this in the media

    I think we may need it also. But better to do it sooner rather than later and then quicker out of this.


  • #4353
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Will Yam wrote: »
    And your evidence for the primary school children is what, exactly?

    Staff and pupils were previously protected by a community accepted contract of generally low transmission levels outside the school environment and an effective track and trace system.

    That situation no longer applies, and yet we are proposing to carry on with no changes to a plan that no longer delivers the conditions on which the opening and ongoing management of schools was based.


  • #4354
    Solar2021
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Solar2021


    Will Yam wrote: »
    I disagree.

    We are completely underestimating the damage being done by keeping schools shut.

    I don't know

    I have 2 kids, both under 8 and in my opinion, the teachers they have are only correctors, wouldn't even call them teachers

    I am the one teaching them with homework they are being given.


  • #4355
    hesaidshesaid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭hesaidshesaid


    niallo27 wrote: »
    You shouldn't be spending two hours a day refreshing the swabs site, you shouldn't be that involved. Not having a go at you but cmon.

    As a counterbalance, I think people should just do whatever gets them through this period as long as it doesn't hurt others. Check the swab results, no problem. Turn your shed in Kildare into a pub and invite 15 of your mates around, not so much. I see where you're coming from niallo. But some people find knowledge soothing where others find it triggering. Each to their own.


  • #4356
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,160 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    Staff and pupils were previously protected by a community accepted contract of generally low transmission levels outside the school environment and an effective track and trace system.

    That situation no longer applies, and yet we are proposing to carry on with no changes to a plan that no longer delivers the conditions on which the opening and ongoing management of schools was based.

    We should all know by know that the Government's plans and aspirations are never really solid and just believing that something is going to or not going to happen based on whatever they say - even if they say it with total conviction - is, well, a bit naive.


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  • #4357
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    WE NEED TO remember 250,000 plus here have antibodies already,

    GP was telling me that they are involved in a study into how long antibodies stay in peoples systems. Some people only have them for 6 weeks no point factoring antibody immunity into any calculations.


  • #4358
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    WE NEED TO remember 250,000 plus here have antibodies already,

    I have mentioned this before, we’ll have 100,000 plus confirmed cases, the HSE will have records of postive tests for these people. My thinking on it is that they should be last to get the vaccine. It can’t be that complicated to say lads, ye have short term immunity but we’ll vaccinate x amount before we get round to you... I don’t know if it’s ethical or not but would speed up what’s already a slow process through no fault of our own especially with the limited supply currently.


  • #4359
    hesaidshesaid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭hesaidshesaid


    Will Yam wrote: »
    I disagree.

    We are completely underestimating the damage being done by keeping schools shut.

    Could you expand on this please? Interested in your thoughts here.


  • #4360
    Solar2021
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Solar2021


    Mimon wrote: »
    GP was telling me that they are involved in a study into how long antibodies stay in peoples systems. Some people only have them for 6 weeks no point factoring antibody immunity into any calculations.

    How long does the GP think vaccine antibodies will last?

    The same 6 weeks?


  • #4361
    shmeee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,429 ✭✭✭✭shmeee


    Will Yam wrote: »
    Ive seen this particular point made over and over again in relation to schools.

    Why should the ppe budget not be reduced?

    The initial budget in the autumn included provision for Perspex screens, sanitiser dispensers etc etc.

    Are all the screens to be replaced? Are all the dispensers to be replaced?

    Your dead right and correct.

    I see people kicking up a fuss over this.

    People need to read the actual circular and get the facts.


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  • #4362
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,190 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Has there been any testing around taking multiple vaccines, for example if one of the vaccines turns out to need an annual top-up and another doesn't could you take the non top-up version after previously taking the other?


  • #4363
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Israel not messing around with vaccines. 150k doses per day, over 10% of the population done already. That's seriously impressive


  • #4364
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Member of family has symptoms , cant get through to anyone .Has been on phone for hours to out of hours GP .She has now paid to have it done privately .Its a shambles


  • #4365
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    shmeee wrote: »
    Your dead right and correct.

    I see people kicking up a fuss over this.

    People need to read the actual circular and get the facts.

    Indeed, it is not just the budget, it is this in combination with everything else that has been going on. If it takes kicking up a fuss over the budget to get people's attention to the other stuff fine.

    As it lies we are heading into another wave which is more infectious to primary school children.


  • #4366
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    shmeee wrote: »
    Your dead right and correct.

    I see people kicking up a fuss over this.

    People need to read the actual circular and get the facts.

    ‘People’ did read the circular. There was a separate allocation for PPE that was clearly designated in the circular section 4.2 originally as including one off costs such as screens etc. No one is complaining about that. This has rightly been reduced

    The complaint is about the cleaning budget. Section 4.1 circular 46/2020. This grant is to cover additional cleaning costs. It was to be paid in two instalments at the rates in the circular. This has been cut by 40%.

    This is highly inappropriate and I know of larger schools who are letting a cleaner go as a result of this


  • #4367
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    WE NEED TO remember 250,000 plus here have antibodies already,


    We do not have a clue how many have antibodies, who they are or how long the have immunity for.
    Sweden had a theory on how many there had antibody protection from their first wave, and look how well that is working out for them.


  • #4368
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭jackboy


    rob316 wrote: »
    Israel not messing around with vaccines. 150k doses per day, over 10% of the population done already. That's seriously impressive

    There is another potential benefit of this speed. There is a chance in the next couple of months that vaccine supply will be pressurised leading to delays in many countries. If Israel get the job done before that happens they will be in the best position of any country in the world, including the zero covid countries.


  • #4369
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    ‘People’ did read the circular. There was a separate allocation for PPE that was clearly designated in the circular section 4.2 originally as including one off costs such as screens etc. No one is complaining about that. This has rightly been reduced

    The complaint is about the cleaning budget. Section 4.1 circular 46/2020. This grant is to cover additional cleaning costs. It was to be paid in two instalments at the rates in the circular. This has been cut by 40%.

    This is highly inappropriate and I know of larger schools who are letting a cleaner go as a result of this

    Agh well no need to let facts get in the way. Who needs a cleaning budget anyhow. :confused:


  • #4370
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Solar2021 wrote: »
    How long does the GP think vaccine antibodies will last?

    The same 6 weeks?

    6 weeks was the minimum, some people had them at 9 months. My point is that we can't consider people who had the virus as being immune as it varies widely.

    I'm sure there's plenty of info online of how long they expect the vaccines to stay effective.


  • #4371
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    Agh well no need to let facts get in the way. Who needs a cleaning budget anyhow. :confused:

    Sure the staff can do it, be grand what else they be doing.


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  • #4372
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Hard to get concrete figures during the year when there's so much revision always ongoing, unfortunately that meant deniers and conspiracy theorists can manipulate and confuse figures and use bias interpretations to deceive people. But you can't argue with total annual deaths.

    Belgium, Italy,France all see their deadliest years since WW2.

    https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/145376/2020-already-belgiums-deadliest-year-since-ww2-coronavirus-epidemic-second-world-war-patrick-deboosere-vub-excess-mortality-hong-kong-flu-statbel-april-november/

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/18/france-passes-60-000-covid-19-deaths-as-2020-becomes-its-deadliest-year
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-casualties/study-suggests-italys-covid-19-death-toll-is-higher-than-reported-idUKL8N2JA2XM

    USA has exceeded 3 million deaths in a year for the first time in the country's history - with 400,000 excess deaths
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55411323
    A rise in deaths between 20,000 and 50,000 is not unusual due to the country's ageing and growing population - but the increase this year is thought to be closer to 400,000.

    This sort of increase - a jump of around 15% from 2019 - would mark the biggest single-year percentage leap since 1918, when hundreds of thousands of lives were lost due to the First World War and Spanish flu.
    UK may exceed 100,000 excess deaths for 2020

    Ireland has seen one of it's lowest total annual deaths in a decade, let's hope this current trend is not heavily affected by the upcoming outbreak. So far we have really avoided an utter **** storm.


  • #4373
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    jackboy wrote: »
    There is another potential benefit of this speed. There is a chance in the next couple of months that vaccine supply will be pressurised leading to delays in many countries. If Israel get the job done before that happens they will be in the best position of any country in the world, including the zero covid countries.

    They probably spent the last 6 months aggressively recruiting and training people to administer the vax. That's another major part of the roll out speed. Knowing the HSE they probably started last week.

    HSE say 25k will be done by end of next week. Even if they hit that it's still painfully slow


  • #4374
    Solar2021
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Solar2021


    Mimon wrote: »
    I'm sure there's plenty of info online of how long they expect the vaccines to stay effective.

    There isn't really

    It's a very complex topic and they can't say if natural antibodies are better or worse than vaccine antibodies

    I am only talking about antibodies now, our immune system has many other defences than just antibodies and I'm not saying vaccine's won't be more effective than natural infection


  • #4375
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,615 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    charlie14 wrote: »
    We do not have a clue how many have antibodies, who they are or how long the have immunity for.
    Sweden had a theory on how many there had antibody protection from their first wave, and look how well that is working out for them.




    I think we do, millions of people hve had this virus since Nov 19 and you might hear a story of one person who got it twice, and then it turns out as a one off, or a false positive .


  • #4376
    Solar2021
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭Solar2021


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Hard to get concrete figures during the year when there's so much revision always ongoing, unfortunately that meant deniers and conspiracy theorists can manipulate and confuse figures and use bias interpretations to deceive people. But you can't argue with total annual deaths.

    Belgium, Italy,France all see their deadliest years since WW2.



    USA has exceeded 3 million deaths in a year for the first time in the country's history - with 400,000 excess deaths


    UK may exceed 100,000 excess deaths for 2020

    Ireland has seen one of it's lowest total annual deaths in a decade, let's hope this current trend is not heavily affected by the upcoming outbreak. So far we have really avoided an utter **** storm.

    You have to use deaths per capita in all those comparison's

    You can't just say 100,000 more deaths, if population has increased by 10 million

    Worldwide there is no excess deaths

    For 2020 the current average population increase is estimated at 81 million people


  • #4377
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,648 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    khalessi wrote: »
    They already rolled out Helen McEntee to say it might not get completed this year. Though why she was announcing this and not Donnelly I am not sure.

    The Government gave since come out to correct her statement, and that mid summer remains the target for mass vaccination.

    Brian MacCraith (e.g. the authority on this matter) says we’ll be getting 530k doses per week by mid summer assuming the vaccines get approved. That sounds a lot like mass vaccination to me.


  • #4378
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Quick glance over the last 20 odd pages that i missed since last logged in. Seems closing construction and curfews have taken over from schools as the latest target for some posters.

    I'm finding the thread sucking the life out of me the last few days. Better just to check in occasionally than follow it religiously.
    Glorious day out there today and it was nice to be out and about in the fresh air rather worrying what was happening with covid or in the news.


  • #4379
    Will Yam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Will Yam


    Solar2021 wrote: »
    I don't know

    I have 2 kids, both under 8 and in my opinion, the teachers they have are only correctors, wouldn't even call them teachers

    I am the one teaching them with homework they are being given.

    Perhaps. But the whole social interaction is essential for kids development, and it’s absence will be very damaging.


  • #4380
    Will Yam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Will Yam


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    ‘People’ did read the circular. There was a separate allocation for PPE that was clearly designated in the circular section 4.2 originally as including one off costs such as screens etc. No one is complaining about that. This has rightly been reduced

    The complaint is about the cleaning budget. Section 4.1 circular 46/2020. This grant is to cover additional cleaning costs. It was to be paid in two instalments at the rates in the circular. This has been cut by 40%.

    This is highly inappropriate and I know of larger schools who are letting a cleaner go as a result of this

    So those who consistently regurgitate posts that claim ppe budgets are being cut by 40% are telling porkies?

    Good to know.


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  • #4381
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Has there been any testing around taking multiple vaccines, for example if one of the vaccines turns out to need an annual top-up and another doesn't could you take the non top-up version after previously taking the other?

    Too early to tell with all this.


This discussion has been closed.
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