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Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #2132
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Latest leaks is no change in plans for schools


  • #2133
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Latest leaks is no change in plans for schools

    They have said that for days, the government hung their hat on getting schools reopened and no matter what they will keep them open as its about the optics.


  • #2134
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    marno21 wrote: »
    Up to 454 in hospital this morning. Are there any discharges happening? Seems to be relentless growth in hospital admissions compared to October, especially considering these aren’t admissions of people infected at Christmas. Those are yet to come.

    Discharges are low as they are based (more or less) on the admissions of 10 or 15 days ago (the average spell in hospital is somewhere between 10 and 15 days).


  • #2135
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Latest leaks is no change in plans for schools

    Any word on when they are going to put 10’s of thousands out of a job?


  • #2136
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    khalessi wrote: »
    They have said that for days, the government hung their hat on getting schools reopened and no matter what they will keep them open as its about the optics.

    Yup reopening schools is about the only achievement this government has

    They know if schools close then it's going to be very hard to get them open again


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  • #2137
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Any word on when they are going to put 10’s of thousands out of a job?

    I would imagine midnight tonight as they want the no household visits in before New years eve


  • #2138
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭Benimar


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Latest leaks is no change in plans for schools

    I have been generally supportive of the level of restrictions but this is just pigheadedness by the Government.

    Leave schools off till the 18th. Scrap the midterm if need be or cut the Easter holidays. Time can be made up. Allowing this sort of movement and gatherings in indoor spaces given our numbers is silly.


  • #2139
    BobbyMalone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭BobbyMalone


    Mimon wrote: »
    Where's the evidence non essential retail cause a problem? Just make sure people observe social distancing/mask wearing when inside and the risk will be very low.


    There is none! My point is that the government will focus on 'expendable' - or what they consider expendable - activities/economies to reduce spread. By focusing on non-essential retail and pubs (for example) it allows them to keep schools open (which allows the majority of the workforce to work, at least in theory.

    Mimon wrote: »
    The 5km thing causes people to exercise in smaller spaces in urban areas. It was the only restriction that I didn't obey as where I walk in nature is 8km away. I can walk there for kms and maybe see one or two people. Better than walking around my town surrounded by dozens of people doing the same.


    And people will always make those calls, but they'll be in the minority - the majority will adhere as they did before, and that's what the government is counting on. Somebody said previously (many moons ago) that people would use their own cop-on: If you're in D8, chances are you'll go outside your 5km to exercise as otherwise your exercise will be walking around narrow streets. If you're in Rathfarnham, you will keep within the 5km as you have a whole load of parks on your doorstep.


  • #2140
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,032 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    khalessi wrote: »
    They have said that for days, the government hung their hat on getting schools reopened and no matter what they will keep them open as its about the optics.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with optics.

    But you know this already.


  • #2141
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Benimar wrote: »
    I have been generally supportive of the level of restrictions but this is just pigheadedness by the Government.

    Leave schools off till the 18th. Scrap the midterm if need be or cut the Easter holidays. Time can be made up. Allowing this sort of movement and gatherings in indoor spaces given our numbers is silly.

    True but if you change schedule at all the unions will try to find ways to keep schools closed again

    It won't just be a delay of a week or two

    'Look numbers are still increasing it's not safe' etc


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  • #2142
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    By reading the level 5 doc online

    You have to return to work home by the 1st and then it’s no inter county

    No inter county is already in place but you can return to your residence at any time.

    As the other poster said if you usually work and live in Dublin for example but went to Galway for Christmas you can return at any time, there isn't a cut off date.


  • #2143
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    If they close non-essential retail those working in supermarkets need to be issued with full hazmat suits and oxygen tanks as they are in an environment many multipiple times riskier than a lad going in to Harvey Norman looking to buy a 40inch Sony tv and not seeking to ride the tv before he buys it.

    This.


  • #2144
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    We were all visiting supermarkets in March April May (without masks in fact) and I dont remember staff dropping like flies. Quite the opposite, infections were virtually non existent.

    I dont even blame the people for going into mental overdrive. Government and RTE are at fault for this hysteria.

    And this.


  • #2145
    ax530
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭ax530


    awec wrote: »
    Of course the fact that schools provide a safe place for children to be during the day, allowing the workforce to work is a huge part of why they are open.

    I am not sure why you find this surprising or noteworthy. It is surely common sense?
    I do believe for many children are mixing less when in school than out of school.
    Dont really get the childminding side of things, sure there are very very few jobs which people do during school time only ? most children are finished around 2 there is still half a work day to do by then.
    creches which provide most childcare for younger children and after school care for others have been open longer than schools and no doubt will open again so I dont think schools provide childcare for workers even many teachers need additional childcare for their school age children
    but as someone mentioned previously gov policy is keep schools going. Also saw some announcement about target number of new builds for next year so cant see them closing construction either.


  • #2146
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    This.

    Can't believe it but I am actually agreeing with AD also :)


  • #2147
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    When we went into the last L5 in October we had just over 1000 daily cases and we got it down to the 200s by opening up in December. In March we went into L5 with thousands of unrecorded daily cases and got the numbers down to mid 20s and 30s, after which it stayed right down for months.
    After this last lockdown ended the numbers rebounded almost instantly to where we are now about 1500 (likely higher) within a few weeks of being at 200s. I think it is to do with the amount of circulating virus left as a ''starter pack'', to simplify it.
    I also think the last L5 was a lockdown lite - there was loads of traffic and loads of squeezing people from different households into cabs and vans and general activity.
    If we are truly at such higher levels of circulating virus that it would seriously affect the health system in a couple of weeks, then another L5 lockdown lite will not work fast enough and will just lead to a longer strung out effort that will annoy everyone in the long run. In my opinion.


  • #2148
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    In no particular order.

    It would be helpful if the Government would define more clearly what consists "essential retail", and "non essential retail", the definition doesn't appear anywhere in official documentation, and way too many people are wittering on about this in isolation, and there will be howls of outrage when their special interest is suddenly on the wrong list.

    House parties. Perhaps there's a solution to this, if you break the rules by attending a house party, you lose your entitlement to PUP or similar for a period of time. Harsh perhaps. but somewhere along the line, the strength of the message from Government has been lost, and too many are choosing to ignore the reality of their actions.

    And in passing, I'm not interested in hearing from people how hard it is to not socialise, I'm well aware of just how hard it is, I'm facing the possible death shortly of a parent in the UK that we've not seen for over 9 months due to Covid, and phone calls don't hack it when the person at the other end is profoundly deaf. I had a lot of special plans that are date specific, 2 70th birthdays and a Golden Wedding anniversary in 2021, and all of the plans for those events are now completely blown out of the water as a result of Covid. We've only seen some of our grand children once in the last 12 months due to Covid restrictions, we chose to obey the rules, but it seems that not obeying any of the rules has had no consequences for many, if the enforcement was any more soft touch, it would go unnoticed. We see our other grand children regularly, but we all miss the hugs and close contact that were normal before Covid came along.

    A lot more clarity is needed about what is required from the household if one member of the household has a positive test, there have been examples in recent days of people going non essential shopping after a family member had a positive result, and if that's true, then there has been a fundamental communication failure at all levels, this pandemic has been with us for nearly a year, if people don't understand the rules, then maybe the people communicating them have got it badly wrong.

    Take way pints? Who in their right mind thought that was even a runner, let alone allowed it, the only thing it did was encourage people to gather en masse in places that were totally not equipped for dealing with crowds, and unless I missed the point of all these restrictions, I thought that the object of the exercise was to reduce crowds, not encourage them. If for no other reason than public health, this folly should not be repeated.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #2149
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    True but if you change schedule at all the unions will try to find ways to keep schools closed again

    It won't just be a delay of a week or two

    'Look numbers are still increasing it's not safe' etc

    And why would you assume unions would try to keep schools closed? Would it be that they are not safe and unions would be trying to keep students and staff safe?

    Since August when the schools went back, the governement have closed nearly everything to keep virus at bay, except schools and no real success. How about they give schools closed a go and see what happens?

    Have a read

    https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1343611613182451712


  • #2150
    schmoo2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    In the middle of all the back and forth is this information.
    Is this factual or is it not? The format is very useful if accurate. I just cannot tell if it is a spoof or not. So many bits of info are thrown around.

    Its a rolling weekly output from some AI + statistical models all based on live data: https://covid19.hpccsystems.com/


  • #2151
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,032 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    ax530 wrote: »
    I do believe for many children are mixing less when in school than out of school.
    Dont really get the childminding side of things, sure there are very very few jobs which people do during school time only ? most children are finished around 2 there is still half a work day to do by then.
    creches which provide most childcare for younger children and after school care for others have been open longer than schools and no doubt will open again so I dont think schools provide childcare for workers even many teachers need additional childcare for their school age children
    but as someone mentioned previously gov policy is keep schools going. Also saw some announcement about target number of new builds for next year so cant see them closing construction either.
    It is better that you can work properly from 9-2 than not work during the day at all.

    The schools are open because the government need as many people as possible working, so that they can afford to give PUP to those who really cannot work, so that mortgages are paid, loans are paid, essential supply chains maintained, essential manufacturing maintained.

    Closing schools has an enormous knock on and detrimental effect. Despite what you read on here it is not about optics. As was proven from September -> December it is entirely possible to open schools and maintain control.


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  • #2152
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    Large numbers of people at "beauty spots" seems to have been a sore point for people from day one of this but I'm just wondering is there actually evidence of any sort of cluster related to say an outing at Glendalough due to people having had to brush past someone on a narrow path for approximately one tenth of a second?

    The 5km limit is nonsense and very few European countries have tried to have such Draconian limits on movement. I think it would do a lot for people's health to be able to explore the country a little bit at the weekends or even during the week for the 100,000 plus about to be sat on their arse again for the next few weeks.


  • #2153
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    In no particular order.

    It would be helpful if the Government would define more clearly what consists "essential retail", and "non essential retail", the definition doesn't appear anywhere in official documentation, and way too many people are wittering on about this in isolation, and there will be howls of outrage when their special interest is suddenly on the wrong list.

    House parties. Perhaps there's a solution to this, if you break the rules by attending a house party, you lose your entitlement to PUP or similar for a period of time. Harsh perhaps. but somewhere along the line, the strength of the message from Government has been lost, and too many are choosing to ignore the reality of their actions.

    And in passing, I'm not interested in hearing from people how hard it is to not socialise, I'm well aware of just how hard it is, I'm facing the possible death shortly of a parent in the UK that we've not seen for over 9 months due to Covid, and phone calls don't hack it when the person at the other end is profoundly deaf. I had a lot of special plans that are date specific, 2 70th birthdays and a Golden Wedding anniversary in 2021, and all of the plans for those events are now completely blown out of the water as a result of Covid. We've only seen some of our grand children once in the last 12 months due to Covid restrictions, we chose to obey the rules, but it seems that not obeying any of the rules has had no consequences for many, if the enforcement was any more soft touch, it would go unnoticed. We see our other grand children regularly, but we all miss the hugs and close contact that were normal before Covid came along.

    A lot more clarity is needed about what is required from the household if one member of the household has a positive test, there have been examples in recent days of people going non essential shopping after a family member had a positive result, and if that's true, then there has been a fundamental communication failure at all levels, this pandemic has been with us for nearly a year, if people don't understand the rules, then maybe the people communicating them have got it badly wrong.

    Take way pints? Who in their right mind thought that was even a runner, let alone allowed it, the only thing it did was encourage people to gather en masse in places that were totally not equipped for dealing with crowds, and unless I missed the point of all these restrictions, I thought that the object of the exercise was to reduce crowds, not encourage them. If for no other reason than public health, this folly should not be repeated.

    Why have you not seen your parent in 9 months, travel is permitted for compassionate reasons? Sorry but you not seeing your parent as harsh as it sounds is entirely down to you


  • #2154
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,032 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    khalessi wrote: »
    And why would you assume unions would try to keep schools closed? Would it be that they are not safe and unions would be trying to keep students and staff safe?

    Since August when the schools went back, the governement have closed nearly everything to keep virus at bay, except schools and no real success. How about they give schools closed a go and see what happens?

    Have a read

    https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1343611613182451712

    This is false.


  • #2155
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    schmoo2k wrote: »
    Its a weekly output from some AI + statistical models all based on real data: https://covid19.hpccsystems.com/

    Thank you. I found it very informative.


  • #2156
    Marty Bird
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    They've invested too much into the "schools are safe" narrative to back down now.

    From my own situation I’ve a child in secondary and primary. I’ve found the measures the schools have taken to be really good.

    My son was a confirmed close contact of a case notified straight away and whole class was tested with teachers by the next day all negative.

    Only been one case in the secondary school among the pupils and some among the staff now that’s only 2 examples.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • #2157
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    True but if you change schedule at all the unions will try to find ways to keep schools closed again

    It won't just be a delay of a week or two

    'Look numbers are still increasing it's not safe' etc

    And you know this how ? getting heartily sick of this inane crap being peddled as fact across boards. It wasn’t unions who closed the schools in March nor kept them closed till September but sure keep going with the populist inane drivel backed up by sfa. And no linking to one union who balloted their members on working conditions is not indicative of the unions looking to keep schools closed.

    Any thoughts on the 40% cut to the ppe/ cleaning budget for schools announced on the 22nd if Dec ?


  • #2158
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,032 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    When we went into the last L5 in October we had just over 1000 daily cases and we got it down to the 200s by opening up in December. In March we went into L5 with thousands of unrecorded daily cases and got the numbers down to mid 20s and 30s, after which it stayed right down for months.
    After this last lockdown ended the numbers rebounded almost instantly to where we are now about 1500 (likely higher) within a few weeks of being at 200s. I think it is to do with the amount of circulating virus left as a ''starter pack'', to simplify it.
    I also think the last L5 was a lockdown lite - there was loads of traffic and loads of squeezing people from different households into cabs and vans and general activity.
    If we are truly at such higher levels of circulating virus that it would seriously affect the health system in a couple of weeks, then another L5 lockdown lite will not work fast enough and will just lead to a longer strung out effort that will annoy everyone in the long run. In my opinion.

    This was helped by the fact that it was the summer and socialising outdoors is more normal.

    In winter, people congregate indoors. It's why other viruses become more prevalent in winter months.


  • #2159
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    khalessi wrote: »
    And why would you assume unions would try to keep schools closed? Would it be that they are not safe and unions would be trying to keep students and staff safe?

    Since August when the schools went back, the governement have closed nearly everything to keep virus at bay, except schools and no real success. How about they give schools closed a go and see what happens?

    Have a read

    https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1343611613182451712

    UK:
    Nervtag's Professor Neil Ferguson told the BBC there had been a "balancing act" since lockdown was initially eased to try to keep control of the virus while maintaining "some semblance of normal society".

    He said: "This new variant has just made that more difficult, we have even less wiggle room.

    "Clearly nobody wants to keep schools shut. But if that's the only alternative to having exponentially growing numbers of hospitalisations, that may be required at least for a period."


  • #2160
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭prunudo


    thelad95 wrote: »
    Large numbers of people at "beauty spots" seems to have been a sore point for people from day one of this but I'm just wondering is there actually evidence of any sort of cluster related to say an outing at Glendalough due to people having had to brush past someone on a narrow path for approximately one tenth of a second?

    The 5km limit is nonsense and very few European countries have tried to have such Draconian limits on movement. I think it would do a lot for people's health to be able to explore the country a little bit at the weekends or even during the week for the 100,000 plus about to be sat on their arse again for the next few weeks.

    I remember back in the early days locals were giving out on various fb groups that all the 'covid tourists' were bringing the virus into their communities, some even saying that they wouldn't be able to open gates for fear of outsiders touching them and leaving the virus for any unsuspecting farmer to catch.


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  • #2161
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    awec wrote: »
    This was helped by the fact that it was the summer and socialising outdoors is more normal.

    In winter, people congregate indoors. It's why other viruses become more prevalent in winter months.

    Yes. I had thought of that. But I do think the starter pack idea has some validity. I do a lot of bread baking and I think of the virus in terms of yeast! :) Too little and it takes ages to rise something but just enough and the rising is really fast. We had too much residual virus left circulating when we opened up in December for it not to rise quite quickly. There is the lotus doubling on the pond metaphor too...at first is slow and then very fast.

    Edit South Africa would also call into question seasonality (?maybe)


This discussion has been closed.
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