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Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

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  • #1172
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Where did I say politics or scientists can control and manipulate the physical environment? I actually said the opposite, that we are disconnected from our environment so much we don’t know how to react prudently when it changes dramatically. We have been warned for a long time that a virus pandemic was very probable, what mitigation plans did we have in place?

    Where did I say society should easily be dissolved at will? I’m saying over complicating the issue has made it harder to manage. In terms of “it’s not rocket science “ I meant the spread of the virus is easy to understand.

    Controlling the physical environment is what lockdown amounts to. They adjust human marionettes then check the stats for improvement.

    We have not reacted prudently at all.

    Trade embargoes, scapegoating, coercion, forced social atomisation - even for a Black Death-like illness I would be raising an eyebrow at the very least.

    For a thing like this, I object strenuously.

    We know that a virus pandemic was very probable yes *because they are routine*, and a bad one comes along every few decades e.g. 1968.

    It is the response of lockdown, social distancing, forced masking which is a-historical, unprecedented, weird, destructive, excessive, demoralising and without proof (defined here as verification through repeated empirical testing).


  • #1173
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Necro wrote: »
    I must admit, Tony Holohan going on and on about being concerned for months has made the actual phrase next to useless.

    There's no doubt that we are probably staring into larger numbers than March in the coming 10 days or so.

    But the robotic phrases of 'The numbers are concerning' and 'The next two weeks are crucial' have lost all effect because it's the same line trotted out since March.

    Funnily enough plenty of people called this at the time. Its been 'concerning' for months and the 'next 2 weeks are crucial'. If everything is called crucial nothing is. I've no doubt a lot of people have switched off from their messaging.

    Having said that, the stark increase in figures is definitely noticed by people and I think we'll see voluntary changes in behaviour (in my opinion we already have, and probably would have post-Christmas regardless of figures) - similar to what we saw in October, which will bring down numbers over time regardless of what level the government bring in.


    Would be interesting to know how much of an effect the new virulant strain has had i.e. would we have gotten off quite a bit lighter from Christmas had it not have existed? They are claiming its significantly more virulant


  • #1174
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Anyone know where our R number is?


  • #1175
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Russian Deputy PM revises national death toll upward to 186,000 - 3rd highest in the world . And the second highest deaths per capita in the world after Belgium at 1300 deaths per million.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55474028


  • #1176
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Anyone know where our R number?

    I would guess that recent case data is too unreliable to estimate. Probably very large!


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  • #1177
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    The latest thing from the WHO is that the virus is here and won't be going anywhere and we have to continue wearing masks after vaccinations because they don't know about transmission. It will probably become an epidemic.

    If the virus is here to stay amongst us, we're being told we have to live with it which involves shutting down the country. But why can't our government learn to live with this virus as well? Surely this involves control at the airports and enforced quarantine?

    We seem to be relying on vaccines to get us out of this whole mess but turns out vaccines might not be the answer if it doesn't stop transmission.


  • #1178
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Cabinet meeting called for tomorrow to discuss the hospital situation.

    Rumour at this stage that city west might be called into service that was previously set up by the defence forces. Thats the word from the same people in hospitals that told me about the vaccine rollout the other day, but must stress its a rumour and nothing confirmed.


  • #1179
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    I thought it was supposed to be today?
    Or is that a press conference / briefing?

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1343903090345435136?s=19


  • #1180
    klose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,189 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I think people are tired of restrictions as it just seems no end to them, we locked down to "save Christmas" and that was a disaster, now we are looking down the barrel of a gun of a big ass couple months long lockdown and I'm sure it will be mooted to "save summer" by end of summer we will be looking at saving Christmas 21 etc....

    I'm not sure the uptake of the vaccine will be what they're looking for either, lots of "I'll wait and see how it turns out" from people I've been talking to.


  • #1181
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    The latest thing from the WHO is that the virus is here and won't be going anywhere and we have to continue wearing masks after vaccinations because they don't know about transmission. It will probably become an epidemic.

    If the virus is here to stay amongst us, we're being told we have to live with it which involves shutting down the country. But why can't our government learn to live with this virus as well? Surely this involves control at the airports and enforced quarantine?

    We seem to be relying on vaccines to get us out of this whole mess but turns out vaccines might not be the answer if it doesn't stop transmission.

    This has already been explained by a fair few posters on the vaccine thread in reposnse to your very same question yesterday. The whole point of vaccines is to limit the impact of virus, much like the flu vaccine however these vaccines are much more effienct than the flu vaccine.

    Covid is an endemic as it stands but when people get vaccinated it limits the impact and allows life to resume & it gets dealt with like any other virus.


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  • #1182
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Cabinet meeting called for tomorrow to discuss the hospital situation.

    Rumour at this stage that city west might be called into service that was previously set up by the defence forces. Thats the word from the same people in hospitals that told me about the vaccine rollout the other day, but must stress its a rumour and nothing confirmed.

    Citywest as a vaccination hub?


  • #1183
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Cabinet meeting called for tomorrow to discuss the hospital situation.

    Rumour at this stage that city west might be called into service that was previously set up by the defence forces. Thats the word from the same people in hospitals that told me about the vaccine rollout the other day, but must stress its a rumour and nothing confirmed.

    Are the private hospitals still contracted to provide normal services? I think this was the plan for the October surge.


  • #1184
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Are the private hospitals still contracted to provide normal services? I think this was the plan for the October surge.

    Not sure to be honest


  • #1185
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I thought it was supposed to be today?
    Or is that a press conference / briefing?

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1343903090345435136?s=19

    There was a cabinet meeting yesterday. That was for the Brexit agreement.


  • #1186
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    This has already been explained by a fair few posters on the vaccine thread in reposnse to your very same question yesterday. The whole point of vaccines is to limit the impact of virus, much like the flu vaccine however these vaccines are much more effienct than the flu vaccine.

    Covid is an endemic as it stands but when people get vaccinated it limits the impact and allows life to resume & it gets dealt with like any other virus.

    Life is not going back to any normality if our government doesn't put controls for those coming into the country. What's the whole point of the whole thing if people are allowed to come in and do what they want.


  • #1187
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Stheno wrote: »
    Citywest as a vaccination hub?

    City West as a hospital.

    I've no idea if its even still set up as one but thats the rumour I've heard and that came from the same people in hospitals that told me the other day about the vaccine rollout going to hospitals first. Like I said I've no idea how accurate it is at the moment


  • #1188
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Are the private hospitals still contracted to provide normal services? I think this was the plan for the October surge.

    I think Paul Reid said last week that they were in talks


  • #1189
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    niallo27 wrote: »
    For me, a lot of the most selfish people are the ones saying I'm ok with these restrictions and dealing fine, what is wrong with you that your dealing with them the same as me.

    Well I had 3 minor meltdowns at different stages... we are all human...I am really starting to get an itch re playing live to an audience...it is just about a year :(

    I think next fine sunny day I will have to play for the neighbours again 5sqm empty around me in the garden amped up so they can hear over the hedges.. :D


  • #1190
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Life is not going back to any normality if our government doesn't put controls for those coming into the country. What's the whole point of the whole thing if people are allowed to come in and do what they want.

    Your point was about vaccination and now border control which is it ? Let the vaccine rollout get underway to bring an end to the restrictions.

    Vacination allows life to resume, covid will still be out there but if your vaccinated you've little to worry about, it becomes just another virus.


  • #1191
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Highest number I can find on hse operations report was on the 13/4/2020 @ 879

    Thanks for that info.
    So if we had 879 in hospital at the peak, what amount of capacity was used? Ie where we at 90% of available capacity?
    As far as I know we have less capacity in the system so what percentage are we at now?
    These numbers are more important that case numbers at the moment I think.
    Thanks.


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  • #1192
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭growleaves


    speckle wrote: »
    Well I had 3 minor meltdowns at different stages... we are all human...I am really starting to get an itch re playing live to an audience...it is just about a year :(

    I think next fine sunny day I will have to play for the neighbours again 5sqm empty around me in the garden amped up so they can hear over the hedges.. :D

    Are you near a city or town? Why not play for a crowd, you can just ask them to stand back.


  • #1193
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Ah come off it, someone can be fed up and tired of restrictions, doesn't exactly mean that their selfish.

    I'm completely fed up, if I wanted to be selfish aswell I'd go around to see my 91 year old grandmother but that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

    So being fatigued isn't the same thing as being selfish.

    Keep in mind before you trot out one liners that not everyone can cope like you can, everyone's circumstances are different.

    Of course people are fed up, i am but the difference is those that are fed up and get on with the hard miles and those who are yes selfish and don't.

    The truth hurts.


  • #1194
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Donnelly on radio 1 now


  • #1195
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Your point was about vaccination and now border control which is it ? Let the vaccine rollout get underway to bring an end to the restrictions

    The WHO has said distancing and masks will remain. Why are we relying on vaccines to get us out of this when it's here to stay. There's no going back to normal and there should be more work from the government with people coming into the country. Sure, they might figure that out sometime in 2021.


  • #1196
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    growleaves wrote: »
    Controlling the physical environment is what lockdown amounts to. They adjust human marionettes then check the stats for improvement.

    We have not reacted prudently at all.

    Trade embargoes, scapegoating, coercion, forced social atomisation - even for a Black Death-like illness I would be raising an eyebrow at the very least.

    For a thing like this, I object strenuously.

    We know that a virus pandemic was very probable yes *because they are routine*, and a bad one comes along every few decades e.g. 1968.

    It is the response of lockdown, social distancing, forced masking which is a-historical, unprecedented, weird, destructive, excessive, demoralising and without proof (defined here as verification through repeated empirical testing).

    Scapegoating? What are you on about? Humans are responsible for their actions and how their actions impact others and their environment. Human behaviour drives transmission, this is just a basic fact. Humans are complicated, I’ve stated that. I don’t really know what your point is in relation to my post, it’s like you are trying to absolve humans of responsibility because “we are complicated”.

    In terms of what is the best way to manage the crisis, Getting the balance between maintaining our lives to a reasonable standard of living and managing the spread is not easy, I’ve not pretended otherwise. As I’ve said the nature of how it spreads is not that difficult to understand, the problem is how to manage people’s reactions and tolerance to managing it.


  • #1197
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    The WHO has said distancing and masks will remain. Why are we relying on vaccines to get us out of this when it's here to stay. There's no going back to normal and there should be more work from the government with people coming into the country. Sure, they might figure that out sometime in 2021.

    Of course they remain until you get the vast majority vaccinated, thats nothing new.

    "Why are we relying on vaccines to get us out of this".... because it limits the impact and reduces hosptialisations and deaths. Its not that hard to understand


  • #1198
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    growleaves wrote: »
    Are you near a city or town? Why not play for a crowd, you can just ask them to stand back.

    No... but seriously thinking of taking up busking again when the weather is better... thanks


  • #1199
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    awec wrote: »
    I agree that house parties and mass gatherings are ridiculous and there is no excuse.

    But I was talking about much less egregious breaking of the restrictions.

    The restrictions are there for the good of everyone.

    You can't just pick and choose what suits.


  • #1200
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    The WHO has said distancing and masks will remain. Why are we relying on vaccines to get us out of this when it's here to stay. There's no going back to normal and there should be more work from the government with people coming into the country. Sure, they might figure that out sometime in 2021.

    'There's no going back to normal'.. because otherwise 94-year olds may not celebrate their 95th birthday.

    Suppose this poster is correct, ie that supranational organisations and national governments claim there is no way back to human society.

    Will you all lend your individual moral and intellectual weight to the 'expert' consensus? Something to think about.


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  • #1201
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,154 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I thought it was supposed to be today?
    Or is that a press conference / briefing?

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1343903090345435136?s=19

    I thought they had meeting mostly about Brexit but were due to discuss covid too. Not sure why they're meeting again when they could have made decisions.


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