The Vaccine

Quiner · 21-12-2020 07:21PM

King Mob wrote: »

No. I'm going to assume it's your dishonest conspiracy interpretation of statements that actually don't say what you said. It's a common tactic.

How many people have died due to covid according to you?
How did you reach this number?
Why have you and other conspiracy theorists been ignoring this question?

I'll post the links. It was reported extensively at the time. But the default lazy response is "you made it up".

Directly of covid?

21-12-2020 07:24PM

Quiner wrote: »

Directly of covid?

Still dodging.
You're proving my point.

Quiner · 21-12-2020 07:26PM

King Mob wrote: »

Still dodging.
You're proving my point.

Well, there's a difference between covid related and directly of covid.

21-12-2020 07:28PM

Quiner wrote: »

Well, there's a difference between covid related and directly of covid.

And another dodge.

martingriff · 21-12-2020 08:03PM

Quiner wrote: »

Well, there's a difference between covid related and directly of covid.

The thing is people do not die from a virus they die from complications due to the virus. An example is AIDS and HIV. very few die for the AIDS or HIV virus but complications due to it should we start now distinguishing them!!

Quiner · 21-12-2020 08:38PM

martingriff wrote: »

The thing is people do not die from a virus they die from complications due to the virus. An example is AIDS and HIV. very few die for the AIDS or HIV virus but complications due to it should we start now distinguishing them!!

I agree, but it's being claimed that people are dying directly of covid.

aido79 · 21-12-2020 10:34PM

Quiner wrote: »

So nothing specific about the claims? I claimed that the figure of 1.5 million deaths of covid was inflated because of the way deaths are counted in England. Up until recently, anyone who died within 28 days of a positive covid test died of covid in England. That's true. Not sure what the problem with the quality of that claim or post is.

You make it sound like something insignificant. If, as the promo video for Health Passport Ireland suggests as a possibility, a green light is required to do anything and everything in Ireland then it would represent a massive change in freedom as it has been understood up to now in the West. Would you not agree? And if you're going to just reply with as hominems then there's no point.

It's interesting to discuss these things. Dismissing claims backed up with sources does nothing for discussion.

That's more suited to one of the other covid threads unless you think it's part of the conspiracy.

Where in the promo does it give the impression that the traffic light system will be permanent rather than a temporary thing as long as covid19 is an issue?
Putting someone in ICU or a grave because you inadvertently passed covid19 onto them also limits their freedom. Would you not agree?

Discussing claims backed up from unreliable sources is spreading false information. Discussing facts adds to a discussion.

martingriff · 21-12-2020 11:22PM

Quiner wrote: »

I agree, but it's being claimed that people are dying directly of covid.

Well if Covid has been shown to have a hand in there dead then to me its a covid death was just my point did not mean to keep your post quoted sorry I meant to change it as a general post

21-12-2020 11:37PM

Quiner wrote: »

I agree, but it's being claimed that people are dying directly of covid.

And yet you have to lie about that and aren't able to provide the real accurate figure.
You then also dodge and evade from giving that figure because your position is inherently dishonest.

You know why you have to keep dodging.
Your continued dodging only serves to prove my point.

faceman · 21-12-2020 11:45PM

Quiner wrote: »

For now, but Health Passport Ireland is on the way, based on the great success of the trial in Roscommon and the probable great success of the trial in other parts of the country.

Possibly Brazil. Maybe Mexico. It depends if the Great Reset is going to target the West specifically. We'll have an idea next month.

Joking aside, your determination is admirable. Fair play.

A question though. How will you get to Brazil or Mexico to live should the great reset come to Ireland?

Won’t you need a passport?

Quiner · 22-12-2020 01:08AM

faceman wrote: »

Joking aside, your determination is admirable. Fair play.

A question though. How will you get to Brazil or Mexico to live should the great reset come to Ireland?

Won’t you need a passport?

A passport, but not a health passport, I would hope. Brazil is just one of several countries I'm looking at. Nothing has been decided, but the past year has been an eye opener in terms of government control and what countries to avoid (Spain, Italy, France, the US, the UK, Ireland etc).

jelem · 22-12-2020 01:20AM

just to add see my post in thread uk varient - ah hell c&p
************
to add
Who brought this strain to attention?
is it only uk ?
i saw\heard that there are\were 9 diff strains SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
when 10th arrives you all being culled like mink
TASK Completed
usa 30 trillion debt gone
western world bankrupt gone
the survivors are to build the pyrmids as slaves to and for the elite.
the last big facebook outage and alleged usa hack was cia\nsa\fbi human count
before the final push
All corruption and theft forgotton
All rights abuses gone and NO rights left for the ordinary survivors.
( moody blues -- miles and miles of pretty files of your magnetic ink "ssd and usb etc not around at that time").

Quiner · 22-12-2020 01:37AM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9077385/Firms-start-work-freedom-passports.html

Freedom Passports. China meets the West. How people still buy this is beyond me.

Quiner · 22-12-2020 02:25AM

aido79 wrote: »

That's more suited to one of the other covid threads unless you think it's part of the conspiracy.

Where in the promo does it give the impression that the traffic light system will be permanent rather than a temporary thing as long as covid19 is an issue?
Putting someone in ICU or a grave because you inadvertently passed covid19 onto them also limits their freedom. Would you not agree?

Discussing claims backed up from unreliable sources is spreading false information. Discussing facts adds to a discussion.

It doesn't say anything about it being temporary. And with the talk of vaccination passports, as well as freedom passports in the UK, it suggests that it will be permanent. There are other health passports being trialled and rolled out. And then there's Common Pass from, you guessed it, the World Economic Forum.

But the flu, which has vanished it seems, kills people every year. Were healthy people getting tested for the flu last year? And I know that covid is more infectious than the flu, but the principle is the same. If people don't want to give people the flu lest they die from it then they should have been testing themselves last year for the flu.

drunkmonkey · 22-12-2020 09:21AM

Quiner wrote: »

But the flu, which has vanished it seems, kills people every year. Were healthy people getting tested for the flu last year? And I know that covid is more infectious than the flu, but the principle is the same. If people don't want to give people the flu lest they die from it then they should have been testing themselves last year for the flu.

The UK had 50,000+ excess deaths from the Flu in the 2017/18 season. Covid looks a little worse but you'd be correct to question how many of the recorded deaths are true excess deaths from Covid. Is it any worse than a bad flu season, it doesn't look like it at the moment.

What's to blame for the excess deaths back then, well an ineffective vaccine for starters and the beast from the east which sent temperatures spiralling down sub zero.

I find it amazing that when the flu vaccine becomes ineffective against the flu it decides to go away but Covid steps in to take over and we find an effective vaccine against it in record time.

runawaybishop · 22-12-2020 09:21AM

Quiner wrote: »

It doesn't say anything about it being temporary. And with the talk of vaccination passports, as well as freedom passports in the UK, it suggests that it will be permanent. There are other health passports being trialled and rolled out. And then there's Common Pass from, you guessed it, the World Economic Forum.

But the flu, which has vanished it seems, kills people every year. Were healthy people getting tested for the flu last year? And I know that covid is more infectious than the flu, but the principle is the same. If people don't want to give people the flu lest they die from it then they should have been testing themselves last year for the flu.

We have a vaccine for the flu. Several in fact. You can walk into your gp and get one now, it's 15 quid I think? Key difference.

drunkmonkey · 22-12-2020 09:29AM

runawaybishop wrote: »

We have a vaccine for the flu. Several in fact. You can walk into your gp and get one now, it's 15 quid I think? Key difference.

You might as well go spend your €15 on some magic beans, there's no flu because of PPE and restrictions, yet we've Covid because people aren't using PPE and ignoring restrictions.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/Influenza_Surveillance_Report_Week%2050_1.0Final.pdf

22-12-2020 09:29AM

Still waiting to hear what the accurate death toll for covid is.
Or for a good explanation as to why all of the covid deniers are avoiding the question.

Panrich · 22-12-2020 09:32AM

Quiner wrote: »

Well, there's a difference between covid related and directly of covid.

Well if I crash my car into a wall and die 28 days later from complications I’m pretty sure that it’s obvious what caused my death whether it’s described as ‘accident related’ or ‘directly from an accident’.

Fighting Tao · 22-12-2020 09:36AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You might as well go spend your €15 on some magic beans, there's no flu because of PPE and restrictions, yet we've Covid because people aren't using PPE and ignoring restrictions.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/Influenza_Surveillance_Report_Week%2050_1.0Final.pdf

The age range of people vaccinated has increased. Kids from 2 years old were vaccinated for free this year. I was also vaccinated for free and I’m just an ordinary person on the street. Also, the number of people entering and leaving Ireland has dropped dramatically. You can’t claim that flu is a hoax unless you know if it comes from abroad or not. So provide the evidence that it is always grown to back up your assertions.

Maybe it is a case of less flu transported into Ireland combined with a large vaccination programme, and people not socialising as close together, plus face coverings that has killed it off so far this year. That is not to say that people coming home for Xmas won’t take it with them.

runawaybishop · 22-12-2020 09:39AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You might as well go spend your €15 on some magic beans, there's no flu because of PPE and restrictions, yet we've Covid because people aren't using PPE and ignoring restrictions.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/Influenza_Surveillance_Report_Week%2050_1.0Final.pdf

Covid spreads more easily. It's not hard to understand unless you choose not to.

drunkmonkey · 22-12-2020 09:47AM

runawaybishop wrote: »

Covid spreads more easily. It's not hard to understand unless you choose not to.

We've had 70yrs of trying to stop it with vaccines, we manged to eradicate it since March. You'd have to question how good vaccines actually are if was that easy to stop all along.
There's just too many paradoxes in this year.

aido79 · 22-12-2020 10:10AM

Quiner wrote: »

It doesn't say anything about it being temporary. And with the talk of vaccination passports, as well as freedom passports in the UK, it suggests that it will be permanent. There are other health passports being trialled and rolled out. And then there's Common Pass from, you guessed it, the World Economic Forum.

But the flu, which has vanished it seems, kills people every year. Were healthy people getting tested for the flu last year? And I know that covid is more infectious than the flu, but the principle is the same. If people don't want to give people the flu lest they die from it then they should have been testing themselves last year for the flu.

Why would there be any need for them after covid19? Because it mentions it in a book?

Social distancing, masks and less contact with people has lessened the spread of flu. If you choose to believe something else that's up to you.

So you think covid19 is just like a flu and should be treated the same? Do you think all of the experts are wrong and you are right? Do you think we should just go back to normal after Christmas? What do you think would happen if that was to happen?

22-12-2020 11:07AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We've had 70yrs of trying to stop it with vaccines, we manged to eradicate it since March. You'd have to question how good vaccines actually are if was that easy to stop all along.
There's just too many paradoxes in this year.

There was never a reason to pursue large scale research into a vaccine against existing strains. This year, basically the entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine. So it's not exactly surprising that a concerted effort with unlimited finance developed vaccines.

mulbot · 22-12-2020 11:15AM

aido79 wrote: »

Why would there be any need for them after covid19? Because it mentions it in a book?

Social distancing, masks and less contact with people has lessened the spread of flu. If you choose to believe something else that's up to you.

So you think covid19 is just like a flu and should be treated the same? Do you think all of the experts are wrong and you are right? Do you think we should just go back to normal after Christmas? What do you think would happen if that was to happen?

In fairness,not "all"the experts agree with the common narrative

drunkmonkey · 22-12-2020 11:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There was never a reason to pursue large scale research into a vaccine against existing strains. This year, basically the entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine. So it's not exactly surprising that a concerted effort with unlimited finance developed vaccines.

The entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine as there's no money in a cure. Why haven't they pulled together to find a cure for cancer or even Covid, these vaccines are far from a solution.
Why do we hear so little about treatments or cures when there's good evidence that existing drugs can annihilate Covid and stop it's spread.
It's vaccine, vaccine, vaccine non stop.

22-12-2020 11:51AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine as there's no money in a cure. Why haven't they pulled together to find a cure for cancer or even Covid, these vaccines are far from a solution.
Why do we hear so little about treatments or cures when there's good evidence that existing drugs can annihilate Covid and stop it's spread.
It's vaccine, vaccine, vaccine non stop.

You understand that vaccines wiped out smallpox and where on the way to doing the same to polio and perhaps ever measles, right?

Cancer isn't a single disease or virus like these things, so claiming that they could just "band together and cure cancer" is very ill informed.

Cancer is not one singular disease. It's a type of disease.
Claiming that they could "cure cancer" is like claiming they could "cure virus".

Again, there seems to be very strong correlation between people who are suspicious of the vaccine and people who don't understand vaccines, viruses, medicine and science in general.

Fighting Tao · 22-12-2020 11:51AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine as there's no money in a cure. Why haven't they pulled together to find a cure for cancer or even Covid, these vaccines are far from a solution.
Why do we hear so little about treatments or cures when there's good evidence that existing drugs can annihilate Covid and stop it's spread.
It's vaccine, vaccine, vaccine non stop.

How can you cure something that affects people in different ways, and little was known about it. A quick win is a vaccine, then cures can come after if the virus persists.

There are people working on cures for cancers. It is not easy, and there are many types of cancer. Maybe we should stop looking for a cure, and maybe work on a cancer vaccine? Although, I’d be quite sure that is being worked on....HPV vaccine helps prevent cervical cancer... It is also worth remembering that cancer is not a pandemic, and hasn’t had a sudden impact like Covid.

22-12-2020 11:55AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The entire pharmaceutical industry focused on a vaccine as there's no money in a cure. Why haven't they pulled together to find a cure for cancer or even Covid, these vaccines are far from a solution.
Why do we hear so little about treatments or cures when there's good evidence that existing drugs can annihilate Covid and stop it's spread.
It's vaccine, vaccine, vaccine non stop.

Treatments have drastically improved in the past year. Drugs are recommended based on trials and suitability for the stage of the illness.

There's no single form of cancer btw so simply curing multiple forms in a year is a tad unrealistic. Preventing getting cancers is pretty much the dream rather than simply curing them. Eg the hpv vaccine eliminates the most deadly forms of cervical cancers. That's also been subject to plenty of conspiracies.

A vaccine did not become a focal point because of profits btw. In fact, treatments would be far more profitable. Keeping a highly contagious virus around indefinitely and getting the profits from drugs used. But the strain on health services would be mental.

I like your attitude though. We should have kept around smallpox,polio and measles.(Although that's back sadly due to idiots not vaccinating.)

Fighting Tao · 22-12-2020 12:11PM

Drunkmonkey, do you look before walking across a busy road? If you do then you are taking a preventative measure because you have a hint of what may happen. Vaccines are the same thing. They are a preventative measure. Better to prevent than not.

The Vaccine

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