The Vaccine

Quiner

Quiner wrote: »

I did. 6% of whatever the number they're claiming died of covid in the US. .

yes. and this was a lie based on you misrepresenting a report you didn't read.
You ran away from my post addressing this.
This was because you couldn't defend your lie.

Quiner wrote: »

Could someone address the issue of 70,000 excess deaths vs 0 excess deaths? Both claims are being made.

This is very hypocritical of you.

Timberrrrrrrr

Quiner wrote: »

I did. 6% of whatever the number they're claiming died of covid in the US. I'm not going to answer the question over and over again.

Could someone address the issue of 70,000 excess deaths vs 0 excess deaths? Both claims are being made.

Simple, the 0 excess deaths number is a lie. There is a ton of information about this if you would just bother to search for it for 5 seconds.

Quiner

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

can you explain how it controls people?

Sure. it does nothing in terms of covid as we can see from all the countries with huge numbers, both cases and deaths, that have 24/7 mask wearing.

So the only reason I can think people are being forced to wear them is to wear them down and control them.

Dr Rand Paul hits the nail on the head:

https://www.newsweek.com/rand-paul-ridicules-mask-wearing-all-about-submission-government-1556237

"Every one of the mandates—and you look in country after country, state after state — you look at when the mask mandates went in—the incidents went up exponentially after the mandates."

"It's like wearing your underwear. You might as well cut your underwear up and wear your underwear as protection. It doesn't work."

Quiner

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Simple, the 0 excess deaths number is a lie. There is a ton of information about this if you would just bother to search for it for 5 seconds.

Thank you. That's all I wanted to know. Then I wonder what on earth the figures and graphs showing 0 excess deaths are about.

Fighting Tao

Quiner wrote: »

Sure. it does nothing in terms of covid as we can see from all the countries with huge numbers, both cases and deaths, that have 24/7 mask wearing.

So the only reason I can think people are being forced to wear them is to wear them down and control them.

Dr Rand Paul hits the nail on the head:

https://www.newsweek.com/rand-paul-ridicules-mask-wearing-all-about-submission-government-1556237

"Every one of the mandates—and you look in country after country, state after state — you look at when the mask mandates went in—the incidents went up exponentially after the mandates."

"It's like wearing your underwear. You might as well cut your underwear up and wear your underwear as protection. It doesn't work."

You’re gas. Firstly you ignored the video at the top of the article. Secondly you are quoting him “Speaking with Breitbart News at the Turning Point USA convention”. So your post holds no weight.

robinph

Quiner wrote: »

Could someone address the issue of 70,000 excess deaths vs 0 excess deaths? Both claims are being made.

Sure. The person who posted that Tweet was lying.

The source for the statistics is here (covers England and Wales):
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Estimated deaths up to 11th December (week 50) for E&W in 2020 = 574549
Average deaths over previous 5 years up to week 50 for E&W = 507629

Add in Scotland and NI and you have the 70k excess.

Timberrrrrrrr

Quiner wrote: »

Thank you. That's all I wanted to know. Then I wonder what on earth the figures and graphs showing 0 excess deaths are about.

Control,

You claim the government/WHO/NWO whatever want to control the population by fudging numbers.

The people who put out false information (0 excess cases/masks are used to control you etc) are also looking to control people, they seek gullible people who believe in shadowy groups doing nefarious things and use them for clicks on YouTube or donations to their "fight" against tyranny.

robinph

Quiner wrote: »

Thank you. That's all I wanted to know. Then I wonder what on earth the figures and graphs showing 0 excess deaths are about.

Purely to try and hook the gullible into believing in a conspiracy.

drunkmonkey

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Drunkmonkey, do you look before walking across a busy road? If you do then you are taking a preventative measure because you have a hint of what may happen. Vaccines are the same thing. They are a preventative measure. Better to prevent than not.

A preventive measure from what something that is going to have little or no effect on me. Now don't even come back with that I'm sick until proven healthy nonsense, that's the biggest hoax of all.
I may take a vaccine in the future when I become in the at risk group the same way I'd take the flu one when I get into my late 60's. There'll be 20 odd years of research at that stage though.
"What some call health, if purchased by perpetual anxiety about diet, isn't much better than tedious disease."

Car99

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A preventive measure from what something that is going to have little or no effect on me. Now don't even come back with that I'm sick until proven healthy nonsense, that's the biggest hoax of all.
I may take a vaccine in the future when I become in the at risk group the same way I'd take the flu one when I get into my late 60's. There'll be 20 odd years of research at that stage though.
"What some call health, if purchased by perpetual anxiety about diet, isn't much better than tedious disease."

If your elderly relatives caught covid due to contact with you while you were carrying covid and subsequently died from it would that have little or no effect on you?

drunkmonkey

Car99 wrote: »

If your elderly relatives caught covid due to contact with you while you were carrying covid and subsequently died from it would that have little or no effect on you?

I won't be going near elderly people, they want to come near me that's on them. If I feel anyway funny I'd only love a few days in bed or isolation, don't expect me to be out and about.

robinph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A preventive measure from what something that is going to have little or no effect on me. Now don't even come back with that I'm sick until proven healthy nonsense, that's the biggest hoax of all.

Are you really going to claim ignorance of the main problem with controlling the spread of Covid is that unlike most other conditions, people are contagious before they know they are ill. Doesn't mean that you are ever going to get ill, just that you are spreading it around without knowing so you then cause others who are vulnerable to get sick.

I'm sure it must have been mentioned to you once or twice every week on one or other of these threads since the beginning of March, or whenever it was that you started posting.

Quiner

Fighting Tao wrote: »

You’re gas. Firstly you ignored the video at the top of the article. Secondly you are quoting him “Speaking with Breitbart News at the Turning Point USA convention”. So your post holds no weight.

I watched the video. I disagree that masks are effective. All you have to do is look at all the countries with 24/7 mask wearing. The case numbers and deaths in those country are enormous.

Dr Paul: "There's no evidence that that slowed down the [spread]. The trajectory of the virus hasn't been altered at all by any of these things."

But this isn't the mask thread, so maybe we should agree to disagree.

Quiner

robinph wrote: »

Sure. The person who posted that Tweet was lying.

The source for the statistics is here (covers England and Wales):
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Estimated deaths up to 11th December (week 50) for E&W in 2020 = 574549
Average deaths over previous 5 years up to week 50 for E&W = 507629

Add in Scotland and NI and you have the 70k excess.

Thanks. It's amazing how legitimate the graphs look.

And I'm guessing there have in fact been 300,000 excess deaths in the US, and that the graphs and figures showing fewer deaths than previous years are wrong.

Quiner

Quiner wrote: »

I watched the video. I disagree that masks are effective.

The majority of doctors and health officials disagree with you.
And as we've seen you are very dishonest and you don't do much fact checking.

I know who I'm going to believe.

aido79

Quiner wrote: »

Essentially yes. But that's not to say that a few simple measures such as distancing and shielding the elderly wouldn't have been required. But masks have to be useless. Every country in the world with 24/7 mask wearing has huge case numbers and deaths. They're being used to control people.

This has been a casedemic since April or May. That's why WHO changed the definition of a pandemic back in 2009. And they're after changing the definition of herd immunity as well. People point to the US, but the US is a very unhealthy country. It was also going to have a lot of deaths. But, again, it has been claimed that the deaths in the US for this year are on course to be lower than previous years. And it's also being claimed that there have been over 300,000 excess deaths. Which is true?

What country in the world has 24/7 mask wearing? The only place I've seen mask wearing is where it is not possible for a few simple measures such as distancing and shielding the elderly wouldn't be possible. How are people being controlled?

It's been explained to you why the definition was changed so I'm not going into that. If you go looking for a conspiracy theory in everything and want to believe things are a conspiracy you will find a conspiracy in just about anything in the world.

I'll try to ask the question in a different way. Do you think there was a possibility that the hospitals could have been overrun with covid patients without the measures that were put in place?

robinph

Quiner wrote: »

All you have to do is look at all the countries with 24/7 mask wearing. The case numbers and deaths in those country are enormous.

Where is this country?

robinph

Quiner wrote: »

Thanks. It's amazing how legitimate the graphs look.

And I'm guessing there have in fact been 300,000 excess deaths in the US, and that the graphs and figures showing fewer deaths than previous years are wrong.

Where did you find the fake numbers about the UK?
Where did you find the numbers about the USA?

That will probably give you the answer.

Quiner

King Mob wrote: »

The majority of doctors and health officials disagree with you.
And as we've seen you are very dishonest and you don't do much fact checking.

I know who I'm going to believe.

Didn't the majority of doctors once believe that lobotomies were a good idea? Would you have believed them at the time?

Quiner

robinph wrote: »

Where is this country?

Peru, Spain, France, Italy, the Philippines, the US (85% of Americans say they wear masks all the time, according to a recent survey).

Quiner

Quiner wrote: »

Didn't the majority of doctors once believe that lobotomies were a good idea? Would you have believed them at the time?

And the scientific process has drastically improved since then. Particularly around ethics.

Quiner

aido79 wrote: »

What country in the world has 24/7 mask wearing? The only place I've seen mask wearing is where it is not possible for a few simple measures such as distancing and shielding the elderly wouldn't be possible. How are people being controlled?

It's been explained to you why the definition was changed so I'm not going into that. If you go looking for a conspiracy theory in everything and want to believe things are a conspiracy you will find a conspiracy in just about anything in the world.

I'll try to ask the question in a different way. Do you think there was a possibility that the hospitals could have been overrun with covid patients without the measures that were put in place?

Spain, Italy, France, the Philippines, the US, among others. Peru and the Philippines also had extremely harsh and lengthy lockdowns. Masks have done nothing, or very little, to stop the huge increases in deaths and cases.

It hasn't really being explained to me. A poster gave an opinion as to why they believed it was changed. We're supposed to believe that herd immunity was fine until this year.

But I could answer the question by saying that they're still overrun with all those measures. See the countries I mentioned.

Quiner

Deleted User wrote: »

And the scientific process has drastically improved since then. Particularly around ethics.

Agreed, but I wonder if the poster would have agreed with those doctors at the time. They keep claiming that the majority of doctors believe what they believe re covid, which is true, so is it fair to wonder if the poster would've believed the majority of doctors at the time who believed that lobotomies were okay?

Quiner

robinph wrote: »

Where did you find the fake numbers about the UK?
Where did you find the numbers about the USA?

That will probably give you the answer.

You're right. Twitter and Facebook aren't good sources, but the graphs often, if not always, look believable and they keep claiming to be quoting from official sources.

It's hard to know what to believe.

runawaybishop

Quiner wrote: »

Spain, Italy, France, the Philippines, the US, among others. Peru and the Philippines also had extremely harsh and lengthy lockdowns. Masks have done nothing, or very little, to stop the huge increases in deaths and cases.

It hasn't really being explained to me. A poster gave an opinion as to why they believed it was changed. We're supposed to believe that herd immunity was fine until this year.

But I could answer the question by saying that they're still overrun with all those measures. See the countries I mentioned.

None of those countries have 24/7 mandatory mask requirements. Do you not realise how daft that even sounds? Who is going to wear a mask while asleep or at home alone absolutely bizarre claim.

Masks lessen transmisson rates. Either show evidence that they don't or drop it please.

Timberrrrrrrr

Quiner wrote: »

Spain, Italy, France, the Philippines, the US, among others. Peru and the Philippines also had extremely harsh and lengthy lockdowns. Masks have done nothing, or very little, to stop the huge increases in deaths and cases.

It hasn't really being explained to me. A poster gave an opinion as to why they believed it was changed. We're supposed to believe that herd immunity was fine until this year.

But I could answer the question by saying that they're still overrun with all those measures. See the countries I mentioned.

You said 24/7 mask wearing, you do understand what 24/7 means right?

Quiner

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You said 24/7 mask wearing, you do understand what 24/7 means right?

You know what I mean. I don't mean literally every second of the day. I mean they're required everywhere at all times.

Quiner

runawaybishop wrote: »

None of those countries have 24/7 mandatory mask requirements. Do you not realise how daft that even sounds? Who is going to wear a mask while asleep or at home alone absolutely bizarre claim.

Masks lessen transmisson rates. Either show evidence that they don't or drop it please.

I mean they're required everywhere. I don't mean in bed or at home.

Drop it? Do I need your permission to post?

runawaybishop

Quiner wrote: »

You know what I mean. I don't mean literally every second of the day. I mean they're required everywhere at all times.

Then why say 24/7, which has a very specific meaning.

They are not required all the times, not even close. They are required when interacting with others.

Dohnjoe

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You said 24/7 mask wearing, you do understand what 24/7 means right?

The broken logic here is that people wear masks but we still have high cases of Covid in certain areas ergo masks "don't work". Likewise we have social distancing everywhere, but there are still high cases of Covid, ergo that "doesn't work", and so on. It's a level of ignorance or pedantry that can be difficult to debate with.