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Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Mmmm...quite often I've found that those who constantly rail against "wokeness" are one's that get quite het up themselves over the mildest of disagreements.

    Frankly, I don't know who's worse. The so called "woke" crowd or the ones that constantly bleat on and on about it.
    The idea is to gather publicity for politicians on either side....pr.

    Say the craziest **** ...but get their name right in the paper.

    Stir up momentum on the left and right ....

    The right has trump ...and ..THAT ..grift ..grift ...its about brand tump..

    The left has defund the police ....when the fed can't defund the police as they don't fund it ...and there are over 37 police unions ...and its mostly the states that fund them ...so it would have to be done state by state ..and no one who SAYS defund the police HAS ANY relationship with any of those police unions to help negotiate that. SO its bull crap...thrown out ...at what is a genuine problem. But its just a pr stunt for certain liberals. While others have backed away from it because when people find out how hollow it is they will feel used.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    So if I recall, he posted an article by some journalist where she said that little girls who weren’t into girly things were way less boring. My response was a comment on the article, not him. It was along the lines of “Oh, that’s weird judging kids in that way” because I do think it’s kind of strange to write off tiny humans as boring or not based on the things they are into. He was straight in saying “That’s that writer’s PREFERENCE, I find it weird that somebody’s opinion would upset you”. Me: “I’m not upset. This person wrote an article for public consumption and I, a member of the public, am flapping my gums about it”. Him “Yes, but why get upset about somebody’s preference?” and it went on like that back and forth for a while. I did say I thought it was would be pretty odd for an adult to have a rigid preference for how they like children to act. :D I believe I was blocked not long after that.

    But anyway, I thought his response was a bit disproportionate. I mean, why feckin’ comment on anyone’s expressed opinion in that case? And the idea that I was upset by the journalist’s article. I wasn’t, I was just commenting on it.

    I think he was probably being sarcastic. I mean isn't that the joke?

    Still, don't understand why he blocked you. Thankfully I've never been on Social Media.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭Sgt Hartman


    The latest woke ad from H&M. Comments are turned off which is not surprising. I believe this is just blatant pandering by H&M after they were recently criticised harshly for featuring an ad poster with a black kid wearing a monkey t-shirt.

    https://youtu.be/Uem9aQXw8B4


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I think he was probably being sarcastic. I mean isn't that the joke?

    Still, don't understand why he blocked you. Thankfully I've never been on Social Media.

    No, we had a lengthy exchange. He was properly pissed off. It was very odd. He was getting offended on behalf of somebody else too which added to the oddness.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    The latest woke ad from H&M. Comments are turned off which is not surprising. I believe this is just blatant pandering by H&M after they were recently criticised harshly for featuring an ad poster with a black kid wearing a monkey t-shirt.

    https://youtu.be/Uem9aQXw8B4

    I think you are just looking too hard.
    I wouldn't call this 'woke' it's just wishy washy middle of the road no offence marketing, the stuff of globalisation.. i.e. I's probably shown in many countries with different accents and languages.. same reason we no longer have jif or marathon bars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,419 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    But if we go by the current definition of racism that can be anything from criticism of mass immigration to being offered a glass of Ribena.

    Reichbena.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat



    The armpits are more pleasant to look st than her head. Is it really such a big deal these days to not bother shaving your pits? It's hardly a brave stance. Nina didn't care back in the early eighties!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    But if we go by the current definition of racism that can be anything from criticism of mass immigration to being offered a glass of Ribena.

    Except it doesn't. Ebun Joseph trying one on in a hotel doesn't change the definition of racism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    There we go again at 34 secs. White girl black guy.

    Europe your daughters are being pimped and your men are doing nowt about it.

    I like that you ignored the bit with the white guy and black girl. How lonely are you?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    The latest woke ad from H&M. Comments are turned off which is not surprising. I believe this is just blatant pandering by H&M after they were recently criticised harshly for featuring an ad poster with a black kid wearing a monkey t-shirt.

    https://youtu.be/Uem9aQXw8B4

    What's woke about it? It just shows different friend groups, a few couples, a guy with with presumably little sister and some people doing fake laughs at a party.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Mmmm...quite often I've found that those who constantly rail against "wokeness" are one's that get quite het up themselves over the mildest of disagreements.

    Frankly, I don't know who's worse. The so called "woke" crowd or the ones that constantly bleat on and on about it.

    Most people with their heads screwed on recognize ' Woke ' as an aberration. An interview with Joseph Henrich, Professor of Evolutionary Biology at Harvard, spells out how Western Civilisation could end because of institutional degradation.

    Hard to imagine that some purple-haired nutters could set in motion a process leading to the collapse of the West, but it's an idea being taken seriously. At the very least, it leaves the West vulnerable to outside manipulation by China/ Russia for their own geo-political gain.
    The Economist Asks: Joseph Henrich – How stable is the West? https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2020/12/10/how-stable-is-the-west


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,234 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    What's woke about it? It just shows different friend groups, a few couples, a guy with with presumably little sister and some people doing fake laughs at a party.

    A mixed race couple is "woke" to some people. Black people and white people should not be together. Some people are uncomfortable with it, some really hate it, some think it's some sort of jewish conspiracy to wipe out white people. Because for some reason jewish people want to wipe out white people ads like this is exactly how you'd go about doing it.
    When in reality it's just an advertising agency trying to sell as many pairs of trousers as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Cienciano wrote: »
    A mixed race couple is "woke" to some people. Black people and white people should not be together. Some people are uncomfortable with it, some really hate it, some think it's some sort of jewish conspiracy to wipe out white people. Because for some reason jewish people want to wipe out white people ads like this is exactly how you'd go about doing it.
    When in reality it's just an advertising agency trying to sell as many pairs of trousers as possible.

    This.

    Businesses have no morals and they don't care about social mores.

    The only manipulation they are interested in is the one that puts more shillings in their pocket and if the dynamic changed in the morning, so would the output from businesses...especially ad agencies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,342 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Cienciano wrote: »
    A mixed race couple is "woke" to some people. Black people and white people should not be together. Some people are uncomfortable with it, some really hate it, some think it's some sort of jewish conspiracy to wipe out white people. Because for some reason jewish people want to wipe out white people ads like this is exactly how you'd go about doing it.
    When in reality it's just an advertising agency trying to sell as many pairs of trousers as possible.

    I never get being anti mixed race couples any kids are normally better looking than the average when they grow up. No harm mixing it up a bit. Maybe it works like Mongrel dogs and the human race will live longer and be healthier I dunno I am no health expert!

    Anyway for the time of year that is in it -

    "Little Jack Horner sat in the corner eating his Christmas Pie, he stuck in his thumb and pulled out a plum, and said I acknowledge that others do not have the privileges I do. And hope the example I set is proof that I believe in the equality of people of every background"

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Most people with their heads screwed on recognize ' Woke ' as an aberration. An interview with Joseph Henrich, Professor of Evolutionary Biology at Harvard, spells out how Western Civilisation could end because of institutional degradation.

    Identity politics. Social division. Double standards. Collective guilt.

    Sure, I could see how western civilisation could end. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, but the truth is undeniable that western culture is tearing itself apart with all these agendas, and the outrage that accompanies them.
    Hard to imagine that some purple-haired nutters could set in motion a process leading to the collapse of the West, but it's an idea being taken seriously. At the very least, it leaves the West vulnerable to outside manipulation by China/ Russia for their own geo-political gain.

    Why limit yourself to purple-haired nutters? That's just the expression of the student body, and those who haven't allowed themselves to conform to social norms.

    We've all acknowledged the presence of the woke ideology in Academia. Primarily in the US, but it's managed to spread beyond the US, into other countries such as the UK. Professors and lecturers, who teach and promote feminist ideology, race theory, etc. These people aren't purple-haired nutters. These are people who have the language ability to educate and who have a whole range of qualifications behind them.

    And then there's the graduates who come from these professors. These graduates leave university and head into many disciplines. Psychology underwent a massive change in composition in the 90s where previously it was male dominated, and now, especially in regards to research, the scale has slipped the opposite direction. Teachers of all levels have come from these universities. Lawyers, solicitors, etc all of whom took ethics classes, or debated morality based on woke ideology. Graduates of business schools, who took extra modules in "women's studies", or a wide range of other topics, who after graduation, became managers and directors. And then there's the people who did government studies, became administrators, or entered politics.

    Take a look at this post about what transition year students are taught in some schools here in Ireland.

    The problem with your vision is that you're only considering the most obvious version of woke expression. The ranting and raving mob of activists who throw paint at others, or who form chain barriers while shouting hate at those they disagree with. Those who identified as radical feminists, have often shifted away from feminism, taking up other causes, such as trans rights, using the same techniques that were so successful for feminism.

    The woke movement is far more than these aggressive protesters. It's the people who push agendas such as school/curriculum reform which favors girls over boys. It's the people who introduce laws to further the rights of women in divorce, and reduce the chances of fathers seeing their children in custody battles. It's the media who promote the views of a rape culture, and target stories that make men appear to be the enemy, and "proof" of the existence of some kind of patriarchy. Look at the equality commissions from the UN, and you'll find an extremely strong focus on women's issues, and very little interest in bringing about actual equality for the genders. Certainly, little interest in acknowledging the troubles of males around the world, and seeking to resolve them. The focus is entirely aimed at women's issues.

    The "woke" movement has managed to embed itself into just about every part of society, and has enormous influence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,234 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Didn't see it I cut off right after the above. Its very rare though I'm sure you'll agree Mr Sonic.



    That would be fair comment if it wasn't at least 90% white woman/black-brown man instead of something approaching 50/50. There's clearly an agenda at play because that's not coincidental.

    Klaz & Wibbs have made valiant efforts at explaining it and there's definitely something to what they say. Is there more to it than that? Who knows.

    But even taking that out of the equation how do mixed race couples sells more product if 95+% of couples are not mixed race? And how does it explain the same phenomena in TV/film especially anything produced by the BBC?


    .
    You forgot your triple brackets around "agenda".

    I think the only agenda is trying to appeal to people in the age range that they want to sell clothes too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    The issue isn't mixed-race couples...its ad agencies/ media companies tripping over themselves to signal their virtue by highlighting mixed-race couples when
    it's clearly not representative of a target audience

    It has a veneer of ideological propaganda, rather than something grounded in everyday life. There is a discomfort that if you point out the incongruence depicted, you might just be told to shut up for being racist.

    I was in a LTR with someone of a different race, so I'm familiar with the day to day dynamics of it, rather than the ideology. And let me tell you, there were some very strange remarks from people you would consider as Woke.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tony EH wrote: »
    This.

    Businesses have no morals and they don't care about social mores.

    The only manipulation they are interested in is the one that puts more shillings in their pocket and if the dynamic changed in the morning, so would the output from businesses...especially ad agencies.

    Yes, and... no. Businesses report to their shareholders... and in some cases, their shareholders are formed from groups with their own biases, or interests to push. Profit is always going to be important, but so too is promoting their views.

    We've seen it with companies like facebook, google, etc, who have taken an interest in manipulating search results, advertising, etc as a way to promote political parties or campaigns (abortion, gay marriage etc) that they favor (or don't favor). They're still interested in money, but they know they can continue making money, while also pushing their own biases.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Biker79 wrote: »
    I was in an LTR with someone of a different race, so I'm familiar with the day to day dynamics of it, rather than the ideology. And let me tell you, there were some very strange remarks from people you would consider as Woke.

    I can second that. :D (also a lot of criticism about age differences, since I'm usually older than my partners)


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That would be fair comment if it wasn't at least 90% white woman/black-brown man instead of something approaching 50/50. There's clearly an agenda at play because that's not coincidental.
    The only agenda in play in advertising and the like is when selling to a majority White Western audience(and often aimed at more women than men) is Black women are seen as not as saleable or attractive to consumers as White women. I remember reading years ago that Vogue or Cosmo(I can't recall which) covers featuring Black women models simply sold fewer issues than covers with White models. Black men are seen as more marketable so mixed race couples in advertising push more product and also plug into the "We Care" stuff many companies hypocritically push. Same with "green" messages in advertising. Most big companies care not a jot about green, except the folding kind.

    In TV and Film media the people producing the content are products of mostly US college culture of the 90's, so they're going to be or want to appear more "progressive". Just like previous generations of content makers reflected their background cultures. Take the first Star Wars flic in the 1970's and then look at the latest outings. The first was the product of an American war baby boomer who reruns among other things the Good versus the Nazis, both entirely made up of White people and only a tiny handful of women, with dogfights in space. The latter outings are quite different.

    The other aspect is again financial. The more diversity boxes you can tick the more bums on seats you get. It widens the market.
    Tony EH wrote: »
    This.

    Businesses have no morals and they don't care about social mores.

    The only manipulation they are interested in is the one that puts more shillings in their pocket and if the dynamic changed in the morning, so would the output from businesses...especially ad agencies.
    This. Like I noted elsewhere on Hollywood if actual fascism kicked off in the morning and was the dominant politic and culture Hollywood studios would be remaking Triumph Of The Will in 3D. In most cases the only morals involved are the ringing of tills.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Didn't see it I cut off right after the above. Its very rare though I'm sure you'll agree Mr Sonic.

    It didn't cut off, you watched up to the point you wanted and made your jump to conclusion and lazy conspiracy.

    Rare in Ireland, maybe so, but probably a lot more common than you think. In the UK, where the ad is targeted, considerably more common.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I never get being anti mixed race couples any kids are normally better looking than the average when they grow up. No harm mixing it up a bit. Maybe it works like Mongrel dogs and the human race will live longer and be healthier I dunno I am no health expert!
    While diverse genetics can be a good thing(it's why people are more attracted to others with slightly differing immune systems) it can just as easily increase the odds of both parent's native population's genetic issues being expressed in their kids. Just like you can see with non pedigree dogs.

    Though dogs are a really bad comparison as they've been selectively bred and more selectively in recent centuries so are extremely inbred and genetic damage is high. So for example there is a range of conditions found in dogs that are extremely rare or completely absent in wolves.

    What you're thinking of is hybrid vigour maybe? That's where you get two closely related subspecies of animals whose offspring are often stronger and live longer than the parent species. You can see that in dog/wolf crosses, the offspring live longer lives than is expected for a large dog. Though again that's complex because wolves in captivity live longer lives anyway compared to the same sized domestic dog. Plus human populations are far too closely related for hybrid vigour to be in play. When sub species of humans have got jiggy with each other(modern humans and neandertals) it seems while some advantage was transferred, it also seems the offspring weren't as fertile as either parent lines.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Yes, and... no. Businesses report to their shareholders... and in some cases, their shareholders are formed from groups with their own biases, or interests to push. Profit is always going to be important, but so too is promoting their views.

    We've seen it with companies like facebook, google, etc, who have taken an interest in manipulating search results, advertising, etc as a way to promote political parties or campaigns (abortion, gay marriage etc) that they favor (or don't favor). They're still interested in money, but they know they can continue making money, while also pushing their own biases.

    The only thing shareholders care about is money. The profit made from a particular enterprise. When that enterprise ceases to be viable, they soon change the tune, or else bail if the business starts failing.

    The likes of Facebook and Google are pseudo businesses. They don't actually produce anything, except a space for people to type shit and show photos of their cat doing stupid things.

    Their revenue is totally through ads and selling user data. Which circles back to the earlier point about ad agencies. It wasn't Facebook pishing something. It was ads by other groups pushing things on Facebook, in a space they paid money for.

    If in the morning, say, the swastika became a cool thing you could bet your life that you'd see it being used by companies to generate interest in their wares. Well, the current "thing" is this woke stuff, because it generates yap and therefore awareness of a particular brand or something that a company wants to hock. There isn't a day that goes by without someone losing their shit over it or something connected to it and businesses are loving it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This. Like I noted elsewhere on Hollywood if actual fascism kicked off in the morning and was the dominant politic and culture Hollywood studios would be remaking Triumph Of The Will in 3D. In most cases the only morals involved are the ringing of tills.

    Completely.

    People thinking that there's some sort of shadowy attempt to place certain values into society because of "woke" agendas are just ignoring the bottom line, literally.

    It's money. Always has been, always will be.

    You know, I'd actually more well disposed to it if companies were trying to push beliefs to engender a better society. But they aren't. It's just finance., which is worse.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Rare in Ireland, maybe so, but probably a lot more common than you think. In the UK, where the ad is targeted, considerably more common.
    Oh it's more common than it was, but still a small minority in the UK. The stats look at ethnicity and under that label it's just under 10% of couples, but when we look at race the most common mix is White British with White non British. Funny enough I remember one stat that showed the White ethnicity most likely to be with a non White partner were Irish people, majority men, living in Britain.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Completely.

    People thinking that there's some sort of shadowy attempt to place certain values into society because of "woke" agendas are just ignoring the bottom line, literally.

    It's money. Always has been, always will be.

    You know, I'd actually more well disposed to it if companies were trying to push beliefs to engender a better society. But they aren't. It's just finance., which is worse.

    Sure, I get that... but you seem to believe that money doesn't flow from those with these woke agendas. Many powerful/wealthy people/organisations/groups have their interests in such things, either because it's how they made their money, or have since become interested. In any case, they have the money to invest, and push an agenda.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Oh it's more common than it was, but still a small minority in the UK. The stats look at ethnicity and under that label it's just under 10% of couples, but when we look at race the most common mix is White British with White non British. Funny enough I remember one stat that showed the White ethnicity most likely to be with a non White partner were Irish people, majority men, living in Britain.

    I suspect you'll find more mixed white couples with Asians than with Black people, outside of the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    There we go again at 34 secs. White girl black guy.

    Europe your daughters are being pimped and your men are doing nowt about it.

    You can be black and European. Even black and Irish. You can also be white and non-European. Mad, that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    You see to me, there’s probably a bit of merit in this post.
    Biker79 wrote: »
    The issue isn't mixed-race couples...its ad agencies/ media companies tripping over themselves to signal their virtue by highlighting mixed-race couples when
    it's clearly not representative of a target audience

    However, calling on white European men to defend “their/our” women is mental carry on.


This discussion has been closed.
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