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Taoiseach shocked and dismayed at Sinn Fein TDs tweet on IRA attacks

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  • Options
    #842
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If Stanley similarly repents, leaves Sinn Fein, and says that Warrenpoint was unjustified and wrong, then he might be suitable for government too.

    Thats about as likely as Ben Bulben becoming an active volcano
    Voters decide suitability for government btw


  • Options
    #843
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,674 ✭✭✭whippet


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ministers are answerable to the Dáil, TD's are answerable to the people. This is a courtesy to the indignant and outraged to make of what they will.

    yawn .... there is always an angle that SF will use to make sure they don't have to behave like they insist everyone else has to.


  • Options
    #844
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Seeing as you have so much faith in the words of the girl.......

    https://extra.ie/2020/12/13/news/irish-news/mary-lou-mcdonald-sinn-fein-troll

    "She said: ‘It was put up on the Meath Ógra Sinn Féin group chat that said, “Guys, on the Paddy Holohan situation, can we not talk about it online, keep it internal, we shouldn’t be slandering our comrades online, I know this doesn’t excuse what he did but Paddy is a good working man.” Basically, telling us not to give Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael ammunition.

    ‘As a black member and someone from the LGBT community I was shocked. If it was any other party, Sinn Féin would be demanding they resign.

    ‘I was like, “Paddy is kind of indefensible, he shouldn’t be in the party, I don’t see why I should delete my tweets” and I was told “internal matters only”. That was the first thing I saw with my own eyes that Sinn Féin weren’t going to deal with homophobia and racism and they think he’s still a good comrade.’"

    I assume that you agree with her that Sinn Fein don't deal with homophobia and racism?

    "Shortly after Tánaiste Leo Varadkar spoke out about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Féin supporters, the outspoken young woman did something no party supporter is supposed to do and agreed with him.

    ‘I agreed with him and that’s a very unpopular thing to do in the party, to agree with Leo. So people were asking for evidence, they said I was being a liar so I started to screenshot evidence and made reference to a page that was on Facebook that was taken down because of all the abusive messages.

    ‘They target Leo Varadkar, they target Eamon Ryan and Micheál Martin. It was a Sinn Féin-supporting account.’"

    Do you agree with her that Leo was speaking the truth about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Fein supporters? We have seen plenty of dog-whistle stuff on here.




    again compare this to work situation, to somebody who is in an organisation as opposed to people like you and me looking in from outside, if you had a problem with some notable person in your business you would still be expected to go up the line if you had thoughts on it, if some notable person was making these kind of racist and homophobic remarks in public and you criticized them in public too, I would think your bosses should see that as fair comment, but I think that any organisation would still ask you to deal with it internally, that doesn't mean they they can stop you speaking about it publically.


    Leo Varadkar didn't say racism and homophobia was coming from Sinn Fein supporter he said it was coming from Sinn Fein.



    Christine also didn't make enough of distinction between accounts that appear to support SF which SF has no control over and Sinn Fein members who can be disciplined by the party.


  • Options
    #845
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    whippet wrote: »
    yawn .... there is always an angle that SF will use to make sure they don't have to behave like they insist everyone else has to.

    No, it is fairly standard procedure actually.


  • Options
    #846
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    expectationlost wrote: »
    again compare this to work situation, to somebody who is in an organisation as opposed to people like you and me looking in from outside, if you had a problem with some notable person in your business you would still be expected to go up the line if you had thoughts on it, if some notable person was making these kind of racist and homophobic remarks in public and you criticized them in public too, I would think your bosses should see that as fair comment, but I think that any organisation would still ask you to deal with it internally, that doesn't mean they they can stop you speaking about it publically.


    Leo Varadkar didn't say racism and homophobia was coming from Sinn Fein supporter he said it was coming from Sinn Fein.



    Christine also didn't make enough of distinction between accounts that appear to support SF which SF has no control over and Sinn Fein members who can be disciplined by the party.

    So you are against whistleblowers lifting the lid on rampant homophobia and racism within an organisation as this woman has done.

    Fair enough.


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    #847
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So you are against whistleblowers lifting the lid on rampant homophobia and racism within an organisation as this woman has done.

    Fair enough.


    being asked to do something doesn't mean you have to do it, I don't think you can call what she did whistleblowing because she heard about these things in the social/media just like we all did.


  • Options
    #848
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    So what is Roman Shorthall's business? Importing cheap contract labour?


  • Options
    #849
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    expectationlost wrote: »
    again compare this to work situation, to somebody who is in an organisation as opposed to people like you and me looking in from outside, if you had a problem with some notable person in your business you would still be expected to go up the line if you had thoughts on it, if some notable person was making these kind of racist and homophobic remarks in public and you criticized them in public too, I would think your bosses should see that as fair comment, but I think that any organisation would still ask you to deal with it internally, that doesn't mean they they can stop you speaking about it publically.


    Leo Varadkar didn't say racism and homophobia was coming from Sinn Fein supporter he said it was coming from Sinn Fein.



    Christine also didn't make enough of distinction between accounts that appear to support SF which SF has no control over and Sinn Fein members who can be disciplined by the party.

    Let Varadkar (no more than anyone else) prove how he knows they are coming from SF...could be his own anonymous accounts supplying him with ammo for all we know.


  • Options
    #850
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,778 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Let Varadkar (no more than anyone else) prove how he knows they are coming from SF...could be his own anonymous accounts supplying him with ammo for all we know.
    well I don't think he has to provide proof that Brian Stanley is a member of Sinn Fein.


  • Options
    #851
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    expectationlost wrote: »
    well I don't think he has to provide proof that Brian Stanley is a member of Sinn Fein.

    Absolutely, and Stanley isn't hiding behind anonymous accounts. Remember Leo has no issue with using those. Not hard to fake party support using anonymous accounts.


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    #852
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    whippet wrote: »
    yawn .... there is always an angle that SF will use to make sure they don't have to behave like they insist everyone else has to.

    Varadkar leaked a confidential government negotiation document to a pal, the head of a rival union. That was shrugged off. Not good behaviour IMO.


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    #853
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,586 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    whippet wrote: »
    yawn .... there is always an angle that SF will use to make sure they don't have to behave like they insist everyone else has to.

    You could say the exact same about FG and FF. They have hardly covered themselves in being bastions of law and order now have they.


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    #854
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    What did Paddy Hulahoop say that time? Something unabashadly nationalist I believe. Cant have that in SF these days


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    #855
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bambi wrote: »
    What did Paddy Hulahoop say that time? Something unabashadly nationalist I believe. Cant have that in SF these days

    "Holohan also made remarks about Varadkar's Indian heritage, saying: "He’s so separated not even from society now but he’s so separated from the history of this country.

    "Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is. He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to.""

    It is the type of language common to those who hold a nasty ideological exclusionary nationalist view of the world - it could be Boris on immigrants, or Trump on Obama, but the sentiment is the same.


  • Options
    #856
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    "Holohan also made remarks about Varadkar's Indian heritage, saying: "He’s so separated not even from society now but he’s so separated from the history of this country.

    "Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is. He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to.""

    It is the type of language common to those who hold a nasty ideological exclusionary nationalist view of the world - it could be Boris on immigrants, or Trump on Obama, but the sentiment is the same.

    Boris, or Trump.

    Leo hs no issues that I can see with those two...didn't he do a favour for Trump?


  • Options
    #857
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Boris, or Trump.

    Leo hs no issues that I can see with those two...didn't he do a favour for Trump?

    He did Francie, he did. Helped prevent a renewable energy project being built so he did. Not a very green thing to support I have to say.


  • Options
    #858
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    He also courted the support of a woman wanted re-education camps for immigrants, he claimed the civil service was very white and SF didn't like white people.


  • Options
    #859
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    McMurphy wrote: »
    He did Francie, he did. Helped prevent a renewable energy project being built so he did. Not a very green thing to support I have to say.

    As they (Trump and Leo) get on so well I wonder would Holohan get the same favours?


  • Options
    #860
    Normal One
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    Speaking of ex- fighters turned politicians, how's Kenneth Egan doing after flouting covid rules during the summer? All forgiven by Leo and the lads?


  • Options
    #861
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As I am not in FG, despite your best efforts to put me there, I don't really care what they think.
    Would you please clarify what was traditional about Leo Varadkar's family other than racist dogwhistling that seeks ot imply that all brown people are knuckle dragging members of the Taliban.


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    #862
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,060 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Seeing as you have so much faith in the words of the girl.......

    https://extra.ie/2020/12/13/news/irish-news/mary-lou-mcdonald-sinn-fein-troll

    "She said: ‘It was put up on the Meath Ógra Sinn Féin group chat that said, “Guys, on the Paddy Holohan situation, can we not talk about it online, keep it internal, we shouldn’t be slandering our comrades online, I know this doesn’t excuse what he did but Paddy is a good working man.” Basically, telling us not to give Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael ammunition.

    ‘As a black member and someone from the LGBT community I was shocked. If it was any other party, Sinn Féin would be demanding they resign.

    ‘I was like, “Paddy is kind of indefensible, he shouldn’t be in the party, I don’t see why I should delete my tweets” and I was told “internal matters only”. That was the first thing I saw with my own eyes that Sinn Féin weren’t going to deal with homophobia and racism and they think he’s still a good comrade.’"

    I assume that you agree with her that Sinn Fein don't deal with homophobia and racism?

    "Shortly after Tánaiste Leo Varadkar spoke out about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Féin supporters, the outspoken young woman did something no party supporter is supposed to do and agreed with him.

    ‘I agreed with him and that’s a very unpopular thing to do in the party, to agree with Leo. So people were asking for evidence, they said I was being a liar so I started to screenshot evidence and made reference to a page that was on Facebook that was taken down because of all the abusive messages.

    ‘They target Leo Varadkar, they target Eamon Ryan and Micheál Martin. It was a Sinn Féin-supporting account.’"

    Do you agree with her that Leo was speaking the truth about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Fein supporters? We have seen plenty of dog-whistle stuff on here.

    Right from the horse's mouth there...... and conveniently ignored by the SF Supporters on here.


  • Options
    #863
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    blanch152 wrote: »
    "Holohan also made remarks about Varadkar's Indian heritage, saying: "He’s so separated not even from society now but he’s so separated from the history of this country.

    "Leo Varadkar’s blood ­obviously runs to India. His great-grandfather is not part of the history of this ­country. Now Leo obviously is. He’s an Irish ­citizen but his ­passion doesn’t go back to the times when our passion goes back to.""

    It is the type of language common to those who hold a nasty ideological exclusionary nationalist view of the world - it could be Boris on immigrants, or Trump on Obama, but the sentiment is the same.

    How dare he not be an open borders neo liberal :D

    Ah Yes, FG pretending they werent hard right on social issues up until the right realised there was money to be made from immigrants, when did Leo decide he was for gay marriage again? :D


  • Options
    #864
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bambi wrote: »
    How dare he not be an open borders neo liberal :D

    Ah Yes, FG pretending they werent hard right on social issues up until the right realised there was money to be made from immigrants, when did Leo decide he was for gay marriage again? :D

    You must be too young to remember Garret’s constitutional crusades in the 1980s.


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    #865
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As expected Stanley apologises for insensitivity of Kilmichael/Narrow Water tweet and the ambiguous nature of the Varadkar one. Insists it wasn't homophobic.

    Over to his detractors.


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    #866
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    As expected Stanley apologises for insensitivity of Kilmichael/Narrow Water tweet and the ambiguous nature of the Varadkar one. Insists it wasn't homophobic.

    Over to his detractors.

    I'm sure they are all over twitter. Beats engaging in defending not paying student nurses, leaking, give a pal a top judicial position and who ever gave a gig promoter in the middle east, one man company a contract for respirators that weren't worth the tax payer money spent.


  • Options
    #867
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,586 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Bowie wrote: »
    I'm sure they are all over twitter. Beats engaging in defending not paying student nurses, leaking, give a pal a top judicial position and who ever gave a gig promoter in the middle east, one man company a contract for respirators that weren't worth the tax payer money spent.

    Don't forget the leaving cert fiasco.


  • Options
    #868
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    As expected Stanley apologises for insensitivity of Kilmichael/Narrow Water tweet and the ambiguous nature of the Varadkar one. Insists it wasn't homophobic.

    Over to his detractors.

    I see he has apologised to Varadkar. Maybe some of those around here who said there was no reference to Varadkar's sexuality would consider and reflect how little they understand of dog-whistle homophobia, and how maybe they should reconsider how they respond when it is raised. If you missed the dog-whistle homophobia in Stanley's tweet and how it could be interpreted, maybe you are also missing the other examples of dog-whistle homophobia around you.


  • Options
    #869
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I see he has apologised to Varadkar. Maybe some of those around here who said there was no reference to Varadkar's sexuality would consider and reflect how little they understand of dog-whistle homophobia, and how maybe they should reconsider how they respond when it is raised. If you missed the dog-whistle homophobia in Stanley's tweet and how it could be interpreted, maybe you are also missing the other examples of dog-whistle homophobia around you.

    He said it wasn't homophobic.
    Think the oversensitivity was yours. As I said.


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    #870
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭batman75


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    As expected Stanley apologises for insensitivity of Kilmichael/Narrow Water tweet and the ambiguous nature of the Varadkar one. Insists it wasn't homophobic.

    Over to his detractors.

    I'm more annoyed he apologised. He obviously meant those tweets and therefore if he had any backbone he wouldn't have apologised. He clearly thinks these things and therefore the apology is hollow. I don't agree with the contents of either tweet but at least we know what he thinks.


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    #871
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Seeing as you have so much faith in the words of the girl.......

    https://extra.ie/2020/12/13/news/irish-news/mary-lou-mcdonald-sinn-fein-troll

    "She said: ‘It was put up on the Meath Ógra Sinn Féin group chat that said, “Guys, on the Paddy Holohan situation, can we not talk about it online, keep it internal, we shouldn’t be slandering our comrades online, I know this doesn’t excuse what he did but Paddy is a good working man.” Basically, telling us not to give Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael ammunition.

    ‘As a black member and someone from the LGBT community I was shocked. If it was any other party, Sinn Féin would be demanding they resign.

    ‘I was like, “Paddy is kind of indefensible, he shouldn’t be in the party, I don’t see why I should delete my tweets” and I was told “internal matters only”. That was the first thing I saw with my own eyes that Sinn Féin weren’t going to deal with homophobia and racism and they think he’s still a good comrade.’"

    I assume that you agree with her that Sinn Fein don't deal with homophobia and racism?

    "Shortly after Tánaiste Leo Varadkar spoke out about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Féin supporters, the outspoken young woman did something no party supporter is supposed to do and agreed with him.

    ‘I agreed with him and that’s a very unpopular thing to do in the party, to agree with Leo. So people were asking for evidence, they said I was being a liar so I started to screenshot evidence and made reference to a page that was on Facebook that was taken down because of all the abusive messages.

    ‘They target Leo Varadkar, they target Eamon Ryan and Micheál Martin. It was a Sinn Féin-supporting account.’"

    Do you agree with her that Leo was speaking the truth about racism and homophobia coming from Sinn Fein supporters? We have seen plenty of dog-whistle stuff on here.

    WOW. Just WOW. How anyone can support such a racist terrorist led by a clueless fool is beyond me.

    Anyone who supports these scumbags is delusional and likely possessing an incredibly low IQ.


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