GMIT Zoom fiasco

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 9:16am #1

Wouldn't be rushing to send my children to GMIT if this is how they operate behind the scenes.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1214/1184422-gmit/

Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology has apologised after two lecturers were overheard at the end of a Zoom session with students discussing the performance of students in crude terms, as well as speculating on private details of students' lives.

Panda5000 · 15-12-2020 9:27am

The video is fairly shocking - they're so relaxed about it it's clearly common place to talk about students like that behind the scenes. Will be very bad form if the two staff members aren't let go.

Andrea B. · 15-12-2020 9:33am

Very bad.

UsBus · 15-12-2020 11:47am

Just seen the video...harmless to be honest. I'd imagine lecturers are talking about students like that forever..it just never got out before. The age of outrage, sack everybody....

Laviski · 15-12-2020 11:49am

In every workplace this happens in some form or another, just these folks got caught with their pants down.

Anyone say otherwise is lying or they work by themselves or billynomates

15-12-2020 11:56am

Its a joke. This shouldn't be news.

Sconsey · 15-12-2020 11:57am

I think it reflects worse on the student(s) that shared this than on the lecturers who forgot to stop recording after the presentations.

SqueakyKneecap · 15-12-2020 12:07pm

The lecturers deserve to get blame for this getting out to the students however the content of the recording (even the very harsh critique of a certain student's presentation skills) is very commonplace in reviews of any sort in the professional world.

I think a sincere apology to those affected would suffice.

eastie17 · 15-12-2020 12:08pm

Agreed, we're reaching critical mass for the ridiculousness.
See this article, Derek Daly, a former F1 driver was fired from his broadcaster role in the US for someone saying he used the N word in an interview 35 years ago! Turns out he used it but in a completely different context.
His son, who is a Nascar driver, and wasn't even alive, had some of his sponsors pulled over this!

http://www.thederekdalysite.com/documents/MediaStatementfromDerekDaly8_23_18.pdf

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/derek-daly-fired

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 12:19pm

Absolute non story,from reading the story it read like the lecturers were making fun of the student for being slow but then watching the videos infact the lecturers are trying to help the student. For people saying they wouldn't let there kids go to GMIT over this wait until there kids get into the real world

BrianBoru00 · 15-12-2020 12:19pm

Panda5000 wrote: »

The video is fairly shocking - they're so relaxed about it it's clearly common place to talk about students like that behind the scenes. Will be very bad form if the two staff members aren't let go.

If that shocks you then you need to re assess your outlook.

Co workers comfortable with each other speaking normally.
Showing plenty of empathy there and discussing the possibility one of the students had mitigating circumstances.

Letting their frustration out in a private group discussion.

And as for anyone not sending children to GMIT as a result of this is away with the fairies if they think this doesn't go on in every single 3rd level institution in the country

Dimo_galway · 15-12-2020 12:22pm

This stuff is normal. I walked in on a teacher talking **** about me to another teacher. Didn't make a stink about it, just asked a question I needed answered and carried on with my work.

They are right fools doing it in a recordable format though.

ben.schlomo · 15-12-2020 12:22pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

If that shocks you then you need to re assess your outlook.

Co workers comfortable with each other speaking normally.
Showing plenty of empathy there and discussing the possibility one of the students had mitigating circumstances.

Letting their frustration out in a private group discussion.

And as for anyone not sending children to GMIT as a result of this is away with the fairies if they think this doesn't go on in every single 3rd level institution in the country

As well as many workplaces.

poker--addict · 15-12-2020 12:36pm

Employees talk about their managers, managers talk about their employees. Students talk about teachers, teachers talk about students.

Take away all the noise and informality and maybe some unprofessionalism, and they are actually having a proper conversation and highlighting students who might need extra assistance. I wonder how many teachers don't even sense check their own opinion before grading students?

Still, in the world of outrage, I suspect they may get fired, where a slap on the wrist would suffice. Whoever leaked the video instead of raising it through correct channels should also get some education on policy and data use.

Panda5000 · 15-12-2020 12:41pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

If that shocks you then you need to re assess your outlook.

Co workers comfortable with each other speaking normally.
Showing plenty of empathy there and discussing the possibility one of the students had mitigating circumstances.

It's no way to assess students, colleagues or anyone regardless if it's intended to be private or public. It's very unprofessional and shouldn't be taken lightly in the work place.

Just because it's considered normal to you doesn't make it alright.

titan18 · 15-12-2020 12:47pm

If you fired every teacher who talked crap about students, you'd likely be left with zero teachers. Should be reprimanded for being stupid rather than anything else

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 12:47pm

Panda5000 wrote: »

It's no way to assess students, colleagues or anyone regardless if it's intended to be private or public. It's very unprofessional and shouldn't be taken lightly in the work place.

Just because it's considered normal to you doesn't make it alright.

What part is so outraging?these are lecturers correcting students results,should they just say very good , excellent so everyone is happy?tbh it's two colleagues discussing results,legally on behalf of the 2 lecturers I don't see any way they can be fired,GMIT may get sued for breach or GDPR. I'd also presume the student videod at the end doing a sexual inuendo towards one of the female lecturers may be in for a walking too

Panda5000 · 15-12-2020 1:01pm

salmon1 wrote: »

these are lecturers correcting students results,should they just say very good , excellent so everyone is happy?

You discuss what they were strong on and what they were weak on, what they need to improve on and pass all the feedback back to the students.

Simple stuff, no need for the additional commentary.

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 1:10pm

Panda5000 wrote: »

You discuss what they were strong on and what they were weak on, what they need to improve on and pass all the feedback back to the students.

Simple stuff, no need for the additional commentary.

No problem if that's how you think society works then fair play,I just know that if my conversations I've had with colleagues all ready this morning were recorded I'd be all over the media by lunchtime,no of our comments were that bad but just not politically correct.

Just another point from reading twitter the most people who seem to be outraged and want people fired seem to have #benice to everyone ect but it must only apply to them when it suits them.

Anyway I hope the students and staff involved are ok and that nothing happens to the staff members in terms of there mental health or even worse as I can't imagine seeing you face on every media outlet and social media group

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 1:23pm

poker--addict wrote: »

Employees talk about their managers, managers talk about their employees. Students talk about teachers, teachers talk about students.

Take away all the noise and informality and maybe some unprofessionalism, and they are actually having a proper conversation and highlighting students who might need extra assistance. I wonder how many teachers don't even sense check their own opinion before grading students?

Still, in the world of outrage, I suspect they may get fired, where a slap on the wrist would suffice. Whoever leaked the video instead of raising it through correct channels should also get some education on policy and data use.

Yeah, it sounds like they had the students best interests at heart alright....

I thought that f*****g [Name], I thought he’d never – and he’s sick, that lad – I didn’t like to, and eventually I said I have to do something, and he still didn’t stop.

......but I thought the other fella, (named student) I thought I'd have to get a drill and start drilling my teeth they were so painful, to be listening to him.

15-12-2020 1:29pm

Panda5000 wrote: »

You discuss what they were strong on and what they were weak on, what they need to improve on and pass all the feedback back to the students.

Simple stuff, no need for the additional commentary.

Meanwhile in the real world.......

Your Face · 15-12-2020 1:48pm

We need set up a gofundme for the victims of this grave abuse of human rights.

Calahonda52 · 15-12-2020 1:53pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Wouldn't be rushing to send my children to GMIT if this is how they operate behind the scenes.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1214/1184422-gmit/

melted snowflakes the folk who shared it: as for the faux offence takers here:
welcome to life as lived as opposed to some alternative // imagined reality

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 2:10pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

melted snowflakes the folk who shared it: as for the faux offence takers here:
welcome to life as lived as opposed to some alternative // imagined reality

How do you think the girl who was described as slow, and having something wrong with her, is doing today?

Yeah of course, she is just imagining all this, as are her parents and family.

She is there for an education, not abuse.

Mrs OBumble · 15-12-2020 2:17pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Wouldn't be rushing to send my children to GMIT if this is how they operate behind the scenes.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1214/1184422-gmit/

GMIT is a third level institution. It's for adults,not children.

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 2:21pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

GMIT is a third level institution. It's for adults,not children.

My offspring so. You know what I mean. What's your point?

Sconsey · 15-12-2020 2:35pm

Wombatman wrote: »

How do you think the girl who was described as slow, and having something wrong with her, is doing today?

Yeah of course, she is just imagining all this, as are her parents and family.

She is there for an education, not abuse.

So the lecturers found her to be poor at the subject, instead of just failing or whatever they discussed if perhaps there are mitigaing circumstances, give the student the benefit of the doubt, discuss checking if there are other issues at play that need to be considered....but some moron of a student thought it would be a good idea to share that discussion with the public and you are blaming the lecturers for trying to make sure they don't give her a bad grade without taking everyting into consideration.

MrMusician18 · 15-12-2020 2:35pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Wouldn't be rushing to send my children to GMIT if this is how they operate behind the scenes.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1214/1184422-gmit/

Yeah you shouldn't be rushing to send your children to GMIT, because as adults this is a decision they should be taking. It's an interesting way you pose the question though because I've noticed an increasing tendency to portray those in college as well as those into their mid twenties less as adults and more as children.

The students here are in an adult environment and although this wasn't meant for their ears it's probably the best feedback they'll ever get on their presentation skills. A grade will tell you only so much and can mask a lot of the hard hitting criticism that is often useful to be heard

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 2:42pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yeah you shouldn't be rushing to send your children to GMIT, because as adults this is a decision they should be taking.

Go way outa that. You are considered a child until you are over 18. Most responsible parents will be involved in their CHILD'S CAO application.

Do you really see this as constructive criticism or an indication that students are seen as an annoyance more than anything else?

"......but I thought the other fella, (named student) I thought I'd have to get a drill and start drilling my teeth they were so painful, to be listening to him."

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 2:49pm

Sconsey wrote: »

So the lecturers found her to be poor at the subject, instead of just failing or whatever they discussed if perhaps there are mitigaing circumstances, give the student the benefit of the doubt, discuss checking if there are other issues at play that need to be considered....but some moron of a student thought it would be a good idea to share that discussion with the public and you are blaming the lecturers for trying to make sure they don't give her a bad grade without taking everyting into consideration.

It's funny, I was thinking, before I make a (marking) decision here on communication, voice and body language … I said I'd better check with access to see if she is on the list someplace for something.

Did they contact the college's disability access office, that 'someplace' to check for 'something'?

Sconsey · 15-12-2020 2:51pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Did they contact the college's disability access office, that 'someplace' to check for 'something'?

Access is the name of the tool/database where this type of information is managed.

MrMusician18 · 15-12-2020 2:52pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Go way outa that. You are considered a child until you are over 18. Most responsible parents will be involved in their CHILD'S CAO application.

Do you really see this as constructive criticism or an indication that students are seen as an annoyance more than anything else?

I was 17 when I filled out my CAO. Of course my parents were involved in the discussion as a sounding board as I bounced ideas off of them, but the decision of what course I did and where was mine and mine alone. I certainly was or wasn't sent anywhere.

The criticism is coarse and harsh but which do you think has more impact? "The presentation was so painful I'd rather drill my teeth" or "presentation skills need improving". Sometimes you need to hear the former but because of politeness you only hear the latter. The former is far more valuable as feedback.

Wombatman · 15-12-2020 3:04pm

Sconsey wrote: »

Access is the name of the tool/database where this type of information is managed.

What?

https://www.gmit.ie/access-office/students-disabilities

cfingers · 15-12-2020 3:17pm

What I think looks really bad on GMIT is that, having said what they said, they then gave one of the students 54%.
How bad would they have to be, to fail the presentation?

VillageIdiot71 · 15-12-2020 3:32pm

cfingers wrote: »

What I think looks really bad on GMIT is that, having said what they said, they then gave one of the students 54%.
How bad would they have to be, to fail the presentation?

Fair point.

I'm more than a little surprised that they'd, apparently, routinely boost the marks given to a special needs student. I don't see that as helping anyone, really.

Pen Rua · 15-12-2020 3:42pm

FWIW, the students are equally in the wrong here for filming the lectures and distributing it (presumably) without their consent.

The lecturers looked bad, and my initial reaction was definitely to be disgusted at their carry on. But, sitting back and thinking about it, I don't really care. I've said mean things about teachers / lecturers / bosses / colleagues so I cannot throw stones. The reality is most of us talk like this about other people (maybe with a little less expletives).

We're also seeing very short clips (I was forwarded 2 clips, both less than a minute long) so we don't know the context & how the lecturers reacted if / when they realised it was live.

My (Indian) friend thinks it's hilarious that an outrage as started, and that back home the lecturers made them feel worthless and said stuff like this to their faces!

MrStuffins · 15-12-2020 3:51pm

Panda5000 wrote: »

The video is fairly shocking - they're so relaxed about it it's clearly common place to talk about students like that behind the scenes. Will be very bad form if the two staff members aren't let go.

Watched the video after reading this post and genuinely thought i'd watched the wrong one. Was waiting for the shocking part and it never came.

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 5:25pm

Wombatman wrote: »

What?

https://www.gmit.ie/access-office/students-disabilities

You can hear the lecturer say to the other lecturer I had to check access to see if there was something wrong? Eg checking the system so I don't get your point here

BrianBoru00 · 15-12-2020 6:04pm

salmon1 wrote: »

You can hear the lecturer say to the other lecturer I had to check access to see if there was something wrong? Eg checking the system so I don't get your point here

And it's obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of college entrance requirements that Access refers to the various supports provided to students who have learning difficulties and NOT Microsoft Access which would not in general be used widely for administration in large institutions like this

ratracer · 15-12-2020 6:05pm

Oh the outrage, a band wagon to jump on......

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/senator-calls-for-unconscious-bias-training-following-virtual-presentation-controversy-at-gmit/

duffman13 · 15-12-2020 6:14pm

This video shows what is wrong with 3rd level education in Ireland. The lecturers are fairly scathing and say students had no in depth knowledge yet they get 55%. There's a reluctance to fail people and degrees at almost all courses levels are handed out fairly easily with a few exceptions

Joe Kane · 15-12-2020 6:28pm

any links to the video please.

smurf492 · 15-12-2020 6:37pm

duffman13 wrote:

This video shows what is wrong with 3rd level education in Ireland. The lecturers are fairly scathing and say students had no in depth knowledge yet they get 55%. There's a reluctance to fail people and degrees at almost all courses levels are handed out fairly easily with a few exceptions

I think this is a pretty harsh statement. There are a lot of people in education who work pretty damn hard to get degrees and the idea that they are handed out fairly easily is wrong. Also factor in that courses held online at the moment are not great from my own perspective but most students and lecturers are making the best of a bad situation. In the current crisis there may be a tad more leniency in respect of everything being online. The two people involved had a duty of care and responsibility to speak in a private setting and should have been more aware when dealing with zoom meetings. The way they spoke about the students involved speaks volumes for their character

PopZiggy · 15-12-2020 6:41pm

Shocking? Snowflake clickbait

tayto lover · 15-12-2020 6:44pm

No different from any workplace anywhere in the world.
Non-story.

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 6:49pm

This could of been handled so differently. All It needed was 1. internal investigation by GMIT why the video was able to be seen by the students 2. Slap on the wrist of the lecturers 3 an apology by lecturers to the students involved 4. Which no body is talking about the male in the video making s sexual inuendo to the lecturer when he turns the camera on himself should apologise aswel which I am sure he regrets and learn from but an apology is needed still.

This would of been alot easier then national media coverage and wattsapp videos of an event which is a complete over reaction...

PopZiggy · 15-12-2020 7:02pm

salmon1 wrote: »

This could of been handled so differently. All It needed was 1. internal investigation by GMIT why the video was able to be seen by the students 2. Slap on the wrist of the lecturers 3 an apology by lecturers to the students involved 4. Which no body is talking about the male in the video making s sexual inuendo to the lecturer when he turns the camera on himself should apologise aswel which I am sure he regrets and learn from but an apology is needed still.

This would of been alot easier then national media coverage and wattsapp videos of an event which is a complete over reaction...

Whoever leaked the video should be found and failed. Whoever that blonde lad is in the video is watching his back I bet.

salmon1 · 15-12-2020 7:13pm

PopZiggy wrote: »

Whoever leaked the video should be found and failed. Whoever that blonde lad is in the video is watching his back I bet.

I wouldn't say watching his back,he's made a mistake like the 2 lecturers so an apology should be all that's needed,everyone will learn valuable lessons from this I'm sure.

One thing I'm certain of is alot of lecturers in similar positions would of been using similar sayings but from today I'm sure it was " great effort ,good attempt blah blah* when they would much rather be using a few different words ðŸ€£

duffman13 · 15-12-2020 7:20pm

smurf492 wrote: »

I think this is a pretty harsh statement. There are a lot of people in education who work pretty damn hard to get degrees and the idea that they are handed out fairly easily is wrong. Also factor in that courses held online at the moment are not great from my own perspective but most students and lecturers are making the best of a bad situation. In the current crisis there may be a tad more leniency in respect of everything being online. The two people involved had a duty of care and responsibility to speak in a private setting and should have been more aware when dealing with zoom meetings. The way they spoke about the students involved speaks volumes for their character

Currently studying a masters and the level of hand holding and baby sitting is incredible from what I've seen. There seems to be a prevailing attitude if someone tries there best then they will pass regardless of actual ability. Might sound harsh but the leaving cert is a better indicator from my experience in hiring.

The lecturers are a huge issue in this problem but the universities (from experience lecturing) seem to encourage lenient marking particularly within fee paying cohorts. This might be hard to hear but its happening in college and universities across the country.

I would agree regarding online learning being more difficult from both points of view BTW

gordongekko · 15-12-2020 7:22pm

If the 2 lecturers were in fact any good at their job, maybe they'd be able to give their knowledge of the subject to the students and they wouldn't be so poor during their presentations.

arse..biscuits · 15-12-2020 7:46pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Xh-jZyebo

GMIT Zoom fiasco

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