Advertisement
MODs please see this information notice in the mod's forum. Thanks!
Boards Golf Society are looking for new members for 2022...read about the society and their planned outings here!
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards

Next%- the ongoing debate

1235712

Comments



  • 4Ad wrote: »
    I have only ran 3 official marathons, the last race was in Seville earlier this year where I wore the Vapourfly, I got a PB (2.53) and I really do think the shoes made a huge difference, especially the last 10km..

    I can remember the first 5 run I did in them, I felt like the Bionic man running in high heels !!
    But you could really feel the difference..


    Yes that is also my experience. Even if you are doing a normal say 60 min aerobic run with the usual effort all feels fine and dandy but then bang...your watch is flagging up 4:00 min per km splits...Jesus Christ..it's only supposed to be a steady run not a 5k time trial!




  • Going to pick up a pair soon, is the general consensus that the Vapourflys are preferred over the Alphaflys? Any reason why?




  • I knocked 25 mins off my marathon time with them a few months back (down to 3:12). I trained all year in Hoka Clifton 6 and only put on the Next% the day of the marathon. I figure they are worth 5-10 second per km extra.

    My last 7 kms splits were robotic. The slowest 4:33 and the fastest 4:29 so only 4 seconds difference between 35-42km. Even sprinted over the last 200m in 4:12 p/km (well that's a sprint for me at that stage). Absolutely no calf cramping which is always my big fear so they defo help with the recovery.

    I actually PBd my 10k, 10 mile and HM during the race.

    Now, I will disclose that I was never so prepared and trained in my life and I was always going to PB but the question is: Would I have achieved the same result in my Hokas? While it is academic I honestly don't believe so. I would definitely have tired and/or cramped up in the last 5km.

    I felt fine afterwards. Walked away as if I had just completed a bog standard local 10k. In fact I have finished HMs feeling a lot worse.

    What marathon was that?




  • Did a lockdown Marathon last Saturday. 2 laps of Harolds Cross to Tymon and as far east as Nutgrove and back again. Did it in the Alphafly's. Knocked 21 min s off my pb which was 3.11 and did it on the day in 2:50:50. Weather was amazing. The runners are incredible, they undoubtably make you quicker but the greatest thing about running with them is the recovery time after the run. I was in unbelievable nick after race. Didn't feel like i did 26m on concrete. It was my 6th marathon was by far least stressful on body. Very little lactic next day where in years passed I'd be struggling to walk downstairs. Incredible shoes




  • iancairns wrote: »
    Did a lockdown Marathon last Saturday. 2 laps of Harolds Cross to Tymon and as far east as Nutgrove and back again. Did it in the Alphafly's. Knocked 21 min s off my pb which was 3.11 and did it on the day in 2:50:50. Weather was amazing. The runners are incredible, they undoubtably make you quicker but the greatest thing about running with them is the recovery time after the run. I was in unbelievable nick after race. Didn't feel like i did 26m on concrete. It was my 6th marathon was by far least stressful on body. Very little lactic next day where in years passed I'd be struggling to walk downstairs. Incredible shoes


    Pretty much the exact same post race experience. I actaully had a 2 hours walk home after and I felt grand.


  • Advertisement


  • Pretty much the exact same post race experience. I actaully had a 2 hours walk home after and I felt grand.

    Thats mad, just reading your comments above. Identical experience and even PB gains! Yeah I had a religious 4 month plan that followed to tee. And we also have the same shoes for the mileage days. Also have the Hoka clifton 6 for the long miles on concrete. Thinking of my next runner now. The Alpha's are really only for special occasions :D




  • iancairns wrote: »
    Thats mad, just reading your comments above. Identical experience and even PB gains! Yeah I had a religious 4 month plan that followed to tee. And we also have the same shoes for the mileage days. Also have the Hoka clifton 6 for the long miles on concrete. Thinking of my next runner now. The Alpha's are really only for special occasions :D




    I just picked up a new pair (the Cllifton 6 had 1100km on them since June but they have held up really well) so went for Clifton 7...better the devil and all that...that's Clifton 4, 5, 6 and 7. Yeah the Next% purely for race days.



    Well done on the massive PB....sub 3hr club.




  • iancairns wrote: »
    Did a lockdown Marathon last Saturday. 2 laps of Harolds Cross to Tymon and as far east as Nutgrove and back again. Did it in the Alphafly's. Knocked 21 min s off my pb which was 3.11 and did it on the day in 2:50:50. Weather was amazing. The runners are incredible, they undoubtably make you quicker but the greatest thing about running with them is the recovery time after the run. I was in unbelievable nick after race. Didn't feel like i did 26m on concrete. It was my 6th marathon was by far least stressful on body. Very little lactic next day where in years passed I'd be struggling to walk downstairs. Incredible shoes

    Congrats on the pb . Great running especially when you consider it wasn't in a race..

    But just FYI, lactate level drop to normal resting values usually within 60 minutes of exercise. So you certainly shouldn't have much the day after.
    Muscle soreness the day after or DOMS is not caused by lactate or lactic acid




  • Ceepo wrote: »
    Congrats on the pb . Great running especially when you consider it wasn't in a race..

    But just FYI, lactate level drop to normal resting values usually within 60 minutes of exercise. So you certainly shouldn't have much the day after.
    Muscle soreness the day after or DOMS is not caused by lactate or lactic acid

    Lactate wont even be an issue during a marathon because the event is run at an intensity below Aerobic Threshold or OBLA(onset of blood lactate accumulation). This basically means that any production of lactate in the blood stream is cleared as fast as its produced and doesnt rise above resting levels.




  • Lactate wont even be an issue during a marathon because the event is run at an intensity below Aerobic Threshold or OBLA(onset of blood lactate accumulation). This basically means that any production of lactate in the blood stream is cleared as fast as its produced and doesnt rise above resting levels.

    My post was to highlight to the OP that lactate was the reason from their muscle soreness post marathon.

    Many people are still wrongly under the impression that lactate or lactic acid is the route if all evil.

    And of course running a marathon should be an aerobic based event, however this will depend on the aerobic condition of the athlete, many athletes will exceed the lactate buffering capacity in the later stages due to cumulative fatigue and glycogen depletion


  • Advertisement


  • Ceepo wrote: »
    My post was to highlight to the OP that lactate was the reason from their muscle soreness post marathon.

    Many people are still wrongly under the impression that lactate or lactic acid is the route if all evil.

    And of course running a marathon should be an aerobic based event, however this will depend on the aerobic condition of the athlete, many athletes will exceed the lactate buffering capacity in the later stages due to cumulative fatigue and glycogen depletion

    Yes, lactate levels will rise towards the end of the race but not to a point of any significance where it actually affects performance as levels will never get high enough even in less developed runners.

    And I agree with what you were saying in your OP btw, I was just tracking on another point that lactate is a non issue in a marathon in the first place even before you get to how long it takes to clear which you pointed out.




  • https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/06/kibiwott-kandie-breaks-58-minutes-for-half-marathon-wearing-new-shoe-technology

    So now these prototype shoes take another turn and are allowed in all competitions with the exception of the World Championships and Olympics




  • Not many races but Adidas seems to be making a mark. Looks like the Vaporfly is more popular than the Alphafly too




  • Review of a few of the alternatives to Nike's offerings.




  • "The Running Channel" is fairly wishy-washy channel to be honest. Im sure by the time the Olympics comes around every brand will have their own form on carbon plate shoe and it will come to user preference. I have always been a fan of Nike shoes for running so will naturally sway towards the Vapourfly unless there was a lot of evidence of another shoe being faster.
    I do think Nike has a huge jump on all other brands with research and development here though so its unlikely that Adidas os Asics will make something faster...




  • Cona wrote: »
    "The Running Channel" is fairly wishy-washy channel to be honest. Im sure by the time the Olympics comes around every brand will have their own form on carbon plate shoe and it will come to user preference. I have always been a fan of Nike shoes for running so will naturally sway towards the Vapourfly unless there was a lot of evidence of another shoe being faster.
    I do think Nike has a huge jump on all other brands with research and development here though so its unlikely that Adidas os Asics will make something faster...

    I think some of the other brands are being smart though. Adidas, Saucony, Asics equivalent all much cheaper than the Next% so the question I asked myself was will I see the benefit of the extra 60 or 70 quid by buying the Next%. Did plenty of research and everything leaned me towards the "cheaper" Endorphin Pro.




  • Cona wrote: »
    I do think Nike has a huge jump on all other brands with research and development here though so its unlikely that Adidas os Asics will make something faster...

    Going by some recent results adidas might have made something faster already!




  • Cona wrote: »
    I do think Nike has a huge jump on all other brands with research and development here though so its unlikely that Adidas os Asics will make something faster...

    Kibiwott Kandie just took more than 30 seconds of the half marathon while wearing Adidas.

    Canadian runner Malindi Elmore did a treadmill test that indicated that the new Saucony Endorphin Pro worked better for her than the Vaporfly.





  • Canadian runner Malindi Elmore did a treadmill test that indicated that the new Saucony Endorphin Pro worked better for her than the Vaporfly.

    I read that story and to be honest, I took that more along the lines of she needed sponsorship and Saucony was the only company willing to take her on.
    Then threw out a story line of why she is no longer running in Nikes (note her last few marathons in VFs) and its a win win for both.

    Value for money is one thing...Like would you consider paying an extra 100 euro for a pair of shoes if it only meant 30 seconds improvement in a marathon?




  • Cona wrote: »
    would you consider paying an extra 100 euro for a pair of shoes if it only meant 30 seconds improvement in a marathon?

    Personally I wouldn't, no. Especially since a 30 seconds improvement would still leave me 30 minutes short of what I used to run but even back in my day I really don't think I would have spent 100 quid for 30 seconds.

    Having said that, if I were at the top end then 30 seconds could easily make the difference of winning a marathon or qualifying for championships, in which case I would not even hesitate forking out.


  • Advertisement


  • Cona wrote: »
    I read that story and to be honest, I took that more along the lines of she needed sponsorship and Saucony was the only company willing to take her on.
    Then threw out a story line of why she is no longer running in Nikes (note her last few marathons in VFs) and its a win win for both.

    That's definitely a valid way of reading that story but there is no arguing about the result in Valencia last Sunday. Nike are no longer the only game in town. Which is a good thing, unless you own Nike.




  • That's definitely a valid way of reading that story but there is no arguing about the result in Valencia last Sunday. Nike are no longer the only game in town. Which is a good thing, unless you own Nike.

    Yep true, Adidas, Saucony and Hoka and possibly even Brooks as well have definitely caught up to them. Will be interesting to see how it fairs out in consumers minds, Nike definitely have a strong marketing team.
    I was at the last Dungarvan 10 road race and I couldn't get over the fact that almost the whole front half of the field was wearing Nike Vapourflys. You had to look hard to find someone wearing anything else.




  • In all the reviews I've read and videos ive watched it seems like the only two real competitors to the Nikes are endorphin pro and Adidas adios pro




  • In all the reviews I've read and videos ive watched it seems like the only two real competitors to the Nikes are endorphin pro and Adidas adios pro

    I'm sure we'll see more options from both companies in 2021 (I hope so anyway)




  • In all the reviews I've read and videos ive watched it seems like the only two real competitors to the Nikes are endorphin pro and Adidas adios pro

    I get the exact same impression. But you know, that's two real competitors where a couple of months ago there were none.

    Is it too much to hope for that competition will lead to lower prices?




  • Nike and Adidas deliberately only release small batches of each shoe to keep the price up




  • MY BAD wrote: »
    Nike and Adidas deliberately only release small batches of each shoe to keep the price up

    The Next percent has been readily available for the last good while.




  • ewc78 wrote: »
    The Next percent has been readily available for the last good while.

    Nike have been good, (albeit crazy prices) they release a Eliot Kipchogie colouring of them even yesterday on website. So no issue getting sizes. Tbh I would've got the Endorphins last July but was so sick of waiting for stock. It was ridiculously hard. Poor form Saucony




  • iancairns wrote: »
    Nike have been good, (albeit crazy prices) they release a Eliot Kipchogie colouring of them even yesterday on website. So no issue getting sizes. Tbh I would've got the Endorphins last July but was so sick of waiting for stock. It was ridiculously hard. Poor form Saucony

    I bought the Endorphin Speeds during lockdown in The Run Hub. Absolutely love them.


  • Advertisement


  • That's definitely a valid way of reading that story but there is no arguing about the result in Valencia last Sunday. Nike are no longer the only game in town. Which is a good thing, unless you own Nike.

    These new shoes are going to destroy athletics. Performance enhancing drugs that would give you a smaller advantage are banned but performance enhancing shoes are allowed because shoe companies are making the money. I see the new shoes as legalised cheating. Combine that with TUE and I would prefer to watch a Grade D race. Four runners under the previous half-marathon World record.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/55206158


Advertisement