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Next%- the ongoing debate

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  • The vaporfly Flyknits are the best shoe I've ever had, I search for them every week and have had no joy. I did buy one pair in the USA and got them sent to an post address but got cancelled due to fraud or something.

    They have small sizes on the Nike site in sale section at the moment. I have 3 pairs stashed away,if I ever get fit enough to use them or if there's any races.




  • 3 pairs of vaporflys stashed away for races? what




  • IvoryTower wrote: »
    3 pairs of vaporflys stashed away for races? what

    Well not being made anymore,was due to start using them but broke my foot in work accident so they're away for now.




  • IvoryTower wrote: »
    3 pairs of vaporflys stashed away for races? what

    I will be doing the exact same thing of I ever find them in my size. They are an incredible shoe for me.




  • I bought another pair yesterday. Nike made a balls of one of my wife's orders so they gave her a 20% voucher. Nice discount for my early Christmas present.
    I've a PB hunt marathon booked for next Feb. I'll use them for race pace up to that, then the race, then run them into the ground, then never buy them again. As Roger Murtagh wisely said "I'm getting too old for this sh!t"


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  • I will be doing the exact same thing of I ever find them in my size. They are an incredible shoe for me.

    They are very scarce now unless you're prepared to pay eBay prices.




  • psychozeb wrote: »
    They are very scarce now unless you're prepared to pay eBay prices.

    Picked up a pair today for €79.90 on Amazon.nl. Not ashamed to say they were listed as ladies trainers......... No way a woman should wear size 9 runners!!!




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    Picked up a pair today for €79.90 on Amazon.nl. Not ashamed to say they were listed as ladies trainers......... No way a woman should wear size 9 runners!!!

    If they were the ones you were linking earlier they are not vaporfly 4%




  • psychozeb wrote: »
    If they were the ones you were linking earlier they are not vaporfly 4%

    No they’re not, you originally replied to a post about Vaporfly Flyknit(don’t think they are even a runner) and presumed you meant Flyknit FK’s. Some steal at €80 if they were Vaporflys!!!




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    No there not, you originally replied to a post about Vaporfly Flyknit(don’t think they are even a runner) and presumed you meant Flyknit FK’s. Some steal at €80 if they were Vaporflys!!!

    No they are a runner,as I said I've three pairs of them


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  • OOnegative wrote: »
    No there not, you originally replied to a post about Vaporfly Flyknit(don’t think they are even a runner) and presumed you meant Flyknit FK’s. Some steal at €80 if they were Vaporflys!!!

    No they are a real runner




  • psychozeb wrote: »
    No they are a real runner

    These are them




  • psychozeb wrote: »
    No they are a real runner

    My bad, you mean the Vaporfly 4% Flyknit, the Rolls Royce version of the shoes(women’s) I bought.




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    My bad, you mean the Vaporfly 4% Flyknit, the Rolls Royce version of the shoes(women’s) I bought.

    Yeah, exactly. I like the zoom fly too as a training shoe but never owned a pair of the Flyknit ones. Can't go wrong at price you paid for them.




  • I'm so frickin confused at this stage.....




  • I'm so frickin confused at this stage.....

    I’ve a habit of doing that to some threads....... Should just shut up!!!




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    I’ve a habit of doing that to some threads....... Should just shut up!!!

    So you bought the zoomfly flyknit?




  • So you bought the zoomfly flyknit?

    I think so.......

    Edit: Yes I did!!




  • I'm so frickin confused at this stage.....

    The bit that confuses me is people going onto Amazon and spending €600ish on ZoomX Vaporfly Next% instead of the already mental €275 from Nike?

    (Being very careful to get my descriptions right :) )




  • https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/sep/30/eliud-kipchoge-denies-platform-nike-shoes-offer-london-race-advantage

    I have a pair and yes they absolutely give me faster times. I guess they are fair as long as everyone else wear them!

    I wear them sparingly. I have them just over 12 months and probably worn them 4-5 times. I wore them for 2 Parkruns on New Years day just gone and then again about 2 weeks ago just for a cheeky 60min run.

    I have run them same 10k route probably 14-15 times in the past 4 months in Clifton 6 Hokas. It is flat and on a cycle path. With the Next% I ran it on average 10-15 seconds per km quicker and without feeling it. In fact I ran a 44min 10 KM which included the 10 minutes of a w/u and c/d.

    Rather than a standard Wednesday evening steady 60 min run if I had rocked up to a 10k roadrace with gameface on I would have obliterated my 10k PB down to 40min.

    Yes of course you still have to get and run but anyone who says they do not give an advantage is in dream land
    .

    I think that I was the first to post on this forum about these years ago when the first version was just released and the there was much scoffing and mentions of cow manure about claims that they improve times :)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105265164

    buymeacoffee.com/glassopy



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  • The bit that confuses me is people going onto Amazon and spending €600ish on ZoomX Vaporfly Next% instead of the already mental €275 from Nike?

    (Being very careful to get my descriptions right :) )

    Do people actually buy those on amazon? Seems mental to me.




  • Ceepo wrote: »
    Never tried the Turbo, but i have tried fly 3. And id agree they are bit in the heavy side. But i couldn't wear them as anf every day trainer. Found them good for tempo, faster pace stuff, but they felt very "clunky" (if thats a word) for everyday runs.
    Each to their own I suppose

    Thanks for the replies. I’ve been looking a bit more at different brands and I like the look of the Saucony Endorphins. The only thing that’s putting me off them is the fact all the reviews say the grip is very poor on them and not suitable on wet roads. I’m looking at the Adidas Boston 9s and they seem to be a good all road shoe. I’ve always gone with Nike as I wear orthotics and I find they fit well in them.




  • Thanks for the replies. I’ve been looking a bit more at different brands and I like the look of the Saucony Endorphins. The only thing that’s putting me off them is the fact all the reviews say the grip is very poor on them and not suitable on wet roads. I’m looking at the Adidas Boston 9s and they seem to be a good all road shoe. I’ve always gone with Nike as I wear orthotics and I find they fit well in them.

    Personally I wouldn't consider the Boston 9 up there with the endorphin, zoomfly or turbo. I have a pair. Wouldn't say I'm the biggest fan. Nike and Adidas are worlds apart in terms of what you feel from the road too so you'd need to consider that.




  • Thanks for the replies. I’ve been looking a bit more at different brands and I like the look of the Saucony Endorphins. The only thing that’s putting me off them is the fact all the reviews say the grip is very poor on them and not suitable on wet roads. I’m looking at the Adidas Boston 9s and they seem to be a good all road shoe. I’ve always gone with Nike as I wear orthotics and I find they fit well in them.

    Not sure of the Boston 9's but I have had previous versions and found them a very tight fit.other than that I liked them.




  • adrian522 wrote: »
    I mean the Nike shoes may give one athlete a 5% improvement and another athlete a 3% improvement, so Athlete A wins the race, but is that because of better physiology, better training or a better adaption to these new shoes? We don't know, which is the issue I have with all this.

    Advances in shoe technology in the past were very gradual so didn't really affect the results nearly as much as this latest generation of shoes does.

    The good thing now is at least there are some regulations and also there are competitors to Nike bringing out their own versions.

    The question that must be asked first is what exactly does the carbon plate do?

    Is it de facto an extremely well designed spring?
    If so do runners with less elasticity or less efficient feet benefit more from these shoes? If so then is this shoe an unfair aid to this type of runner?

    Is there anywhere where the constraints for legal running shoes is defined I wonder?




  • demfad wrote: »
    The question that must be asked first is what exactly does the carbon plate do?

    Is it de facto an extremely well designed spring?
    If so do runners with less elasticity or less efficient feet benefit more from these shoes? If so then is this shoe an unfair aid to this type of runner?

    Is there anywhere where the constraints for legal running shoes is defined I wonder?

    My understanding is that the carbon plate is stability. The energy dispersion rate is from the pebax foam. Because of the stack height the foam they need to add some stability




  • There is a good documentary on the bbc iplayer on Oscar Pistorius aka Blade Runner.
    I only saw the 1st episode but it is a great watch.

    I would hazard a guess that today's carbon plate shoes borrow a little knowledge from the testing that went into his blade which the authorities carried out before banning him from competing as it was found the blade was giving him more speed at the end of his 400m when other runners would naturally be tiring.

    The big thing is whether these shoes if worn for interval sessions would allow your body to recover quicker. I wonder are a lot of the elite guys wearing them for races only.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2020/documentary-series-oscar-pistorius-iplayer

    Having watched a small bit of it so far you can only be impressed by the drive and hunger of Pistorius as he competed. There is also an incredible clip of how a kid was born in Iceland with the same condition as him and he went up to Iceland to meet the family and developed a great bond with them after further visits and calls.

    From the link above it says it is coming to BBC2 after first being a boxset on the iplayer.




  • I've heard they gloss over the whole murdering his girlfriend thing, not sure how much I want to watch that documentary to be honest.




  • glasso wrote: »
    I think that I was the first to post on this forum about these years ago when the first version was just released and the there was much scoffing and mentions of cow manure about claims that they improve times :)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105265164


    I knocked 25 mins off my marathon time with them a few months back (down to 3:12). I trained all year in Hoka Clifton 6 and only put on the Next% the day of the marathon. I figure they are worth 5-10 second per km extra.

    My last 7 kms splits were robotic. The slowest 4:33 and the fastest 4:29 so only 4 seconds difference between 35-42km. Even sprinted over the last 200m in 4:12 p/km (well that's a sprint for me at that stage). Absolutely no calf cramping which is always my big fear so they defo help with the recovery.

    I actually PBd my 10k, 10 mile and HM during the race.

    Now, I will disclose that I was never so prepared and trained in my life and I was always going to PB but the question is: Would I have achieved the same result in my Hokas? While it is academic I honestly don't believe so. I would definitely have tired and/or cramped up in the last 5km.

    I felt fine afterwards. Walked away as if I had just completed a bog standard local 10k. In fact I have finished HMs feeling a lot worse.


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  • I knocked 25 mins off my marathon time with them a few months back (down to 3:12). I trained all year in Hoka Clifton 6 and only put on the Next% the day of the marathon. I figure they are worth 5-10 second per km extra.

    My last 7 kms splits were robotic. The slowest 4:33 and the fastest 4:29 so only 4 seconds difference between 35-42km. Even sprinted over the last 200m in 4:12 p/km (well that's a sprint for me at that stage). Absolutely no calf cramping which is always my big fear so they defo help with the recovery.

    Now, I will disclose that I was never so prepared and trained in my life and I was always going to PB but the question is: Would I have achieved the same result in my Hokas? While it is academic I honestly don't believe so. I would definitely have tired and/or cramped up in the last 5km.

    I have only ran 3 official marathons, the last race was in Seville earlier this year where I wore the Vapourfly, I got a PB (2.53) and I really do think the shoes made a huge difference, especially the last 10km..

    I can remember the first 5 run I did in them, I felt like the Bionic man running in high heels !!
    But you could really feel the difference..


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