Possible puppy farm?

Fakediamond · 07-12-2020 10:57AM

coathanger wrote: »

Tell your sister to steer clear, €450 for a crossbreed or mongrel ! Madness !!
Ask her to approach a local rescue & offer to foster a dog , & donate the €450 to the rescue , that would be a great help with their food & vet bills .
Whilst fostering they might find a dog that is the perfect fit for their family.
Also ask your sil in to check out the county council website in the area where this breeder is located , she may well see their name on the Register of Dog Breeding Establishments.
That’s a real eye opener I can tell u .
Photos/ situations can be staged for the buyer , ie nice clean straw & heat lamps ! Far better to have the pups in a safe corner of the kitchen to get them used to day to day noises of living with a family in a family home.
I hope your sil sees sense ...

As far as I know, councils won’t publish the lists of licensed puppy farms anymore, using the excuse of “data protection”. It’s given them yet another layer of protection from scrutiny. Disgraceful carry on and brings shame on our councils and on our country’s reputation internationally. :mad:

Taiga · 07-12-2020 06:42PM

Highroad12 wrote: »

Is the breeder in Wexford by any chance?

No, Cork.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 11:37AM

At least she did the right thing by putting them down but of course the suspicion is that she got an offer of a much better price for Christmas and sold them elsewhere higher. Dogs selling for 1k up and prices tracking back up for the Christmas ‘market’ to 2k+ for retrievers - unbelievable really.

The big Wicklow/Dublin/Galway /Kildare/Meath rescue shelters say they are inundated with abandoned dogs and requests yet the same few lurcher/collie and restricted breed mix dogs have been on their fb pages and websites for over 6 months + now. It is impossible to get a sensible response from the big 3 rescues in Dublin one of which says it is their policy that they will not adopt young dogs/puppies out to families WITHOUT children.

So long as ‘reputable breeders’ continue to
say their dogs are showdogs and the best examples of their pedigrees and expect fees in thousands for a dog and it is near impossible to plan to get a family pet of your semi choice from a rescue people will continue to buy online where the fees though extortinate are nowhere as extortinate as the fees expected by IKC professional dog owners & breeders.

Doubtless it is a great thing to rescue a dog but equally people do not necessarily want someone elses abandoned/discarded pet which often by the stage it gets to a rescue has not been socialised properly or been mistreated and has lifelong lasting complexes and issues.

It is clear also from tracking websites that rescues are being routinely used as dumping grounds for breeders who do not manage to sell
their ‘puppies’ while they are young and cute or whose experimental greyhound/lurchers do
not pass the grade for speed tests/racing potential.

We seriously need to look at a model for
pet ownership in this country that bridges the
gulf between private puppy purchasing versus dog farms vs rescuing. There has to be countries that have a better and more successful model than ours and a universal vet check that has to be provided at point of advertisement or sale so
you have a hope of knowing the dog is safe and healthy before parting with a thousand euro
in someones kitchen to get the dog of your choosing when it is still young enough to be trained and socialised and can be trained and trusted with your family/children.

Out government has actively supported a family who have over 300 breeding bitches in Cavan - how in the name of God can this be right? And how can the likes of all the bleeting politicians who routinely go on about rights issues and humanity and left wing militancy preside over this without a murmer while BBC and other media are doing under cover exposes on the horrific conditions the breeding bitches and pups are kept in. It just beggars belief.

biko · 08-12-2020 11:41AM

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 11:48AM

biko wrote: »

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

As long as there is no other method of buying a puppy in the breed of your choice to train and socialise from 12 weeks up there is little alternative.

What do other countries do?

Here we have the classic dilemma. Person wants a specific puppy, orders one from a breeder known to the family who someone else has successfully bought a healthy similar pup from a few years back - and now is being guilted into taking an older dog possibly with lifelong feaars or socialisation/training issues possibly a different breed to the one they wanted and would suit their needs/family. CLASSIC .

Surely other countries have evolved a better system than ours. Where has successful models for choosing and buying a puppy? I’d genuinely love to know.

anewme · 08-12-2020 01:33PM

Like others, I am finding it difficult to get a puppy. I did some research and enquired after a registered breeder. I came across one that I was very happy with, genuine family puppies with all the health checks done - IKC reg.

€2,800.

Is that normal?

I have been applying for rescue puppies for months - they are like gold dust and it is disheartening when you dont get a response.
Im not even pushed on breed - a good old JRT or terrier cross would fit the bill.

The only reason I want a puppy is that they could be trained to my lifestyle from the get go, where an older dog might not want to adapt. Im talking more post covid, when we go back to the office.Other than that, if the right one came for me, Id happily take an older dog. Ive left my details with many rescues.

08-12-2020 01:36PM

biko wrote: »

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

I guess the solution is to regulate properly and inspect the breeders. There's nothing in shelters only abused greyhounds mostly. Not everyone wants a big dog with an unknown past.

tk123 · 08-12-2020 01:46PM

anewme wrote: »

Like others, I am finding it difficult to get a puppy. I did some research and enquired after a registered breeder. I came across one that I was very happy with, genuine family puppies with all the health checks done - IKC reg.

€2,800.

Is that normal?
.

I would say it would abnormal for any reputable breeder to have puppies available right now.. did a breed club give you the contact details or have you found them yourself? Always go through the breed club.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 05:18PM

tk123 wrote: »

I would say it would abnormal for any reputable breeder to have puppies available right now.. did a breed club give you the contact details or have you found them yourself? Always go through the breed club.

why would you say that? Dogs come into heat and are covered - there is an insatiable appetite for puppies during the lockdown - why would a breeder NOT have pups during this huge surge in demand? When the dog may only come into heat or be auited to having a litter once a year?

As for the 2.2K pricetag for an IKC & registered breeder - this is exactly why puppy farms exist - because most people don’t want a best in show pedigree prizewinner - they ‘just’ want a specific breed and don’t want to pay the earth for the puppies grannies rosettes and prize line of awards since the 1900’s.

Currently it seems the going rate for a ‘puppy’ off the internet from God knows who regardles ls of mix, IKC regrisration or breed is about 1 1/2 thousand euro - give or take. Eyewatering. But most specific IKC breeders in the past would have been demanding at least three times this for their prizewinning pooches puppies for ‘ ‘pets’ in the past - pre-covid - and sneer down their noses any anyone who dared say it was too much. The secretaries in the IKC are lovely people but only give a few names of their ‘prefered’ registered breeders and typically the prices all more or less match - from my experiences dealing with them at least. This leaves Joe Bloggs who just wants a specific pet left either going to the internet or trying his luck with the russian roulette of rescues and aomeones abandoned older dog with God knows what dreadful past experiences, lack of socialising, biting habit or mental issues.

No wonder small time hobby breeders - registered or not and puppy factories are thriving.

In Ireland, despite all the lip service to animal industries and animal welfare, There seems to be no managed solution to buying a puppy of your choice - and it has been this way since the 1980’s. The big difference is that it is now more accessible and visible on the internet.

I would also add that if/when the prices dip back to more managable pre-Christmas and pre Covid prices of 4-600 euro for a mix/mutt/whatever off whomever on the internet that the rescues are still going to be faced with the dilema that they are asking for a donation of e250 or so and now some of the major rescues are making it a condition that you oay for and attend their dog training classes for the rescued dog - another e-150-200. Which makes it all the harder to justify a spend on a second hand, possibly traumatised and damaged dog - adult - that may never recover or be trainable out of its neurotic habbits - when you can go to the internet and buy a brand new fully trainable never had issues never been mistreated or abused or bitten puppy of your choosing - all of your own to love and nurture from the start.

Until we find a model that works this will continue. Bad for the dogs, bad for the breeding bitches and bad for the volunteers that are heartbroken trying to save dogs their don’t give a F*** owners think is OK to toss away when they are bored or inconvienenced by or just not bothered to love and cherish anymore. And lets face it - thats what happens to most dogs that end up in rescues - halfwit selfish owners who think the issues they created and the damage they did to their beautiful
little pet is someone elses issue and not their responsibility.

Cherry Blossom · 08-12-2020 05:36PM

Reputable breeders (no inverted commas necessary) do not breed to meet demand, they breed to improve and keep their own line going and because they want a puppy for themselves. JAT I’m going to guess you have never actually bought a puppy from a reputable breeder as you demonstrate in your posts that you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. The price of a puppy depends on the breed mostly but most are not anything like 4 figures. People are not breeding at the moment because COVID restrictions make it difficult for strangers and friends alike to visit their home. I visited my pup three times 2 hours away before I brought him home. Conditions at the moment are not optimal for socialising pups which is so important to their development into well adjusted dogs. I paid around £600 stg for my health tested puppy from show and working lines and although this was some years ago the price is still typical for the breed, when people are breeding which they aren’t at the minute. There is so much misinformation in some of the above posts, it’s scary.

tk123 · 08-12-2020 05:43PM

JustAThought wrote: »

why would you say that? Dogs come into heat and are covered - there is an insatiable appetite for puppies during the lockdown - why would a breeder NOT have pups during this huge surge in demand? When the dog may only come into heat or be auited to having a litter once a year?
.

Because reputable breeders didn't breed during lockdown so as not to break restrictions. They also have waiting lists - so there's no spare pups.. therefore anyone with pups right now isn't a member of any club. I'm on a list now for a breeder who's at the planning stages - the dog won't be in heat until some time in Jan.

As for the prices - you do realise that the breed clubs cap the price of puppies? It's cheaper to get a retriever pup at least from a reputable breed club breeder atm than from a backyard breeder. Registering pups doesn't make a breeder reputable either.

You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about what you think a reputable (vs registered) breeder is and also rescue dogs.

Also I would never think or refer anyone's pet as being a reject because they came from a rescue but that's the tone I get from your posts.

Cherry Blossom · 08-12-2020 05:44PM

Also just to add, I’ve no idea what people mean when they refer to registered breeders. Do people mean registered dogs? Puppy farms and BYBs can also register their dogs. Do they mean the breeder has a kennel club affix? Again this is easy to obtain and does not make someone reputable.

The IKC do not register people, they register dogs and at the end of the day they are just a dog registry. Although it is one box to tick it is by no means the be all of buying a dog.

Knine · 08-12-2020 05:47PM

As a Reputable Breeder I can tell you that €2800 is definitely not normal & my dogs are top winners, health tested. None of us have put up our prices & anyone that does is to be avoided.

What I will say is that I am inundated with inquiries. I also find that people want a puppy & want one now! They don't want to wait & will go anywhere & pay huge sums of money for basically poor quality dogs. I normally have lots of visitors to socialise any young puppies & at the moment it is very difficult to do that to the standard I want as I also live with very vulnerable family members.

And Just a Thought - My bitch is just out of heat & not covered. You are really confused about what a Reputable Breeder actually is!,

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 05:51PM

Before you make any more sweeping and entirely incorrect generalisations about me CB I suggest you stop.

No doubt you are the perfect pet owner who has 100% insight into everything to do with the industry and did everything perfectly but I suggest you look at the trends and the prices of puppies for sale online at the moment.

They may have been taken off DD but have entirely migrated to the two other major online Irish sales channels and there are today twenty pages of IKC and mostly registered puppies for sale at typically one and a half thousand per puppy, rising to two thousand eight hundred for a litter of 5 white IKC retrievers - posted new today. This excludes the ‘higher end’ and ‘speciality’ dogs like bulldogs and Bernese Mountain Dogs and Great Danes which are all coming in in excess of two or three thousand per puppy. All Irish dogs and mutt mixes or breeds although the same breeds and trends are visible on the equivalent N.I site.

As anyone can observe in the parks and beaches there has never been more puppies out walking - I wonder with the license fee next year reflect this.

Idealogy is one thing, the reality screams something totally different. And your figure is totally out of kilter in the current market - and for anyone I know including myself who has bought a IKC ‘professionally bred’ registered puppy .

anewme · 08-12-2020 05:55PM

tk123 wrote: »

Registering pups doesn't make a breeder reputable either.

This is my ultimate concern.

I will also say like someone else in the post said, the world of rescue is not perfect either.

Knine · 08-12-2020 05:56PM

JustAThought wrote: »

Before you make any more sweeping and entirely incorrect generalisations about me CB I suggest you stop.

No doubt you are the perfect pet owner who has 100% insight into everything to do with the industry and did everything perfectly but I suggest you look at the trends and the prices of puppies for sale online at the moment.

They may have been taken off DD but have entirely migrated to the two other major online Irish sales channels and there are today twenty pages of IKC and mostly registered puppies for sale at typically one and a half thousand per puppy, rising to two thousand eight hundred for a litter of 5 white IKC retrievers - posted new today. This excludes the ‘higher end’ and ‘speciality’ dogs like bulldogs and Bernese Mountain Dogs and Great Danes which are all coming in in excess of two or three thousand per puppy. All Irish dog ls although the same breeds and trends are visible on the equivalent N.I site.

As anyone can observe in the parks and beaches there has never been more puppies out walking - I wonder with the license fee next year reflect this.

Idealogy is one thing, the reality screams something totally different. And your figure is totally out of kilter in the current market - and for anyone I know including myself who has bought a IKC ‘professionally bred’ registered puppy .

You need to be more careful where you are buying your puppies! IKC reg does not mean Reputable! I represent my Breed for the IKC & K can tell you we are all appalled at the current prices of dogs but you won't find any of us on the online buying sites.

Cherry Blossom · 08-12-2020 06:02PM

JustAThought those advert sites are and always have been full of scammers, puppy farmers and backyard breeders. We have always advised on this forum that they should be avoided at all costs. You refer to ‘professional breeders’ this is a term puppy farmers use to describe themselves. As I already said there are no reputable breeders breeding at present (or very very few) and you will never see them advertising anyway. Once again registered does not equal reputable.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 06:23PM

CB - professional breeders are just that - breeders that breed for money. I bought via a Professional Breeder, registered to the IKC and whose business of breeding and selling puppies was registered to the IKC and who had him on their list of being a registered and compliant breeder on their books. This did not make them any better or worse than any other IKC registered breeder also selling on the internet. I am well aware of the scams around IKC paperwork but also that there is a premium placed on pricing for dogs that are IKC registered. Shored up by the society/charity itself. The extortinate prices online we are seeing now is nothing compared to the normal extortinate prices showdogs breeders have been demanding for years - usually in excess of thousands. The small breeders and puppy farms do not come close to the prices they have been demanding for years - shielded and abetted by the professionals and volunteers in the Irish kennel Club. The sanctimonious holier than thou attitude of them is and rocket high pricing structure is one of the reasons that puppy farms and small breeders have been able to continue and thrive for so many years.

As for the myth that breeders are just breeding for the love of the gene pool or to keep the oerfect showline going and are doing it at a basic rate - the eye watering prices being asked for years belies this. But then again no doubt all the posters here give away their showdogs bred puppies at cost and never ever want a profit.

So far on this thread we have had the backyard breeders are all bad rhetoric (& many large scale ones are), the ‘buy from a reputable breeder’ rhetoric - no clarification on how an outside defines or clarifies or checks this, the IKC is good rhetoric and the IKC is not good rhetoric - along with the rhetoric that real breeders do it for love and not for money. No wonder the buying public is confused.

I’m still asking and noone has yet been able to advise - what successful models do other countries use to buy and sell puppies to the general public without either the breeding bitches, puppies or buyers being totally exploited.

Cherry Blossom · 08-12-2020 06:30PM

JAT - you bought a dog from a puppy farm and you have a nerve to be preaching about other people being holier than thou?

Anyways, there is only so long one can play chess with a pigeon before pulling ones own hair out. So I’m out.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 06:47PM

No CB - I bought from an IKC registered breeder registered with the Kennel Club and on their breeders list.

But you just busy yourself with telling yourself you are a great breeder and do it only for love and everyone else is a monster.

Still no reply - including from the self professed showdog breeders for love not money on the site here - of how the puppy industry is regulated - properly in other countries so that this mess of people screaming at each other and trying to puppy shame for how people choose to buy a IKC registered and allegedly controlled papered up or just old fashioned puppy is not the general descent into absurdity we usually have. No wonder so many people just buy online and not have to put up with this nonsense.

OP - tell your friend to do exactly what suits them so long as the dog is checked to be healthy and has their vacs and seems to have been well treated aNd kindly handled and mixed in a household - too many vested interests and screamers and absolute purchasing absurdities involved otherwise.

tk123 · 08-12-2020 06:49PM

anewme wrote: »

This is my ultimate concern.

I will also say like someone else in the post said, the world of rescue is not perfect either.

Unless you have a contact in a rescue or breed club to bump you up the list I think you'll be hard pressed to get a pup that's not from a puppy farmer any time soon unfortunately.

There's just too many enquires from them to sort the genuine owners like yourself from the pandemic puppy people. I know one rescue in Dublin will only place pups in houses with young kids under a certain age so excluded my friend as her kids are too old.

IKC reg for me is kind of like the NCT.. my dad's oil dripping banger has an NCT and he's on his own if there's a problem. My brand new car has a 7 year warranty - I know which I prefer and also which dealer I'd prefer to deal with.

Also contrary to one poster's ideas of buying a pup (I assume many many years ago) you contact the breed club not the IKC. The same way you'd contact individial rescues. And contact by phone were possible - email/FB is for buying junk of adverts not an animal.

anewme · 08-12-2020 07:13PM

tk123 wrote: »

Unless you have a contact in a rescue or breed club to bump you up the list I think you'll be hard pressed to get a pup that's not from a puppy farmer any time soon unfortunately. There's just too many enquires from them to sort the genuine owners like yourself from the pandemic puppy people. I know one rescue in Dublin will only place pups in houses with young kids under a certain age so excluded my friend as her kids are too old.

IKC reg for me is kind of like the NCT.. my dad's oil dripping banger has an NCT and he's on his own if there's a problem. My brand new car has a 7 year warranty - I know which I prefer and also which dealer I'd prefer to deal with.

Also contrary to one poster's ideas of buying a pup (I assume many many years ago) you contact the breed club not the IKC. The same way you'd contact individial rescues. And contact by phone were possible - email/FB is for buying junk of adverts not an animal.

Thats what I'm finding unfortunately.

In already about eight months with rescues. My homecheck is passed.

I don't have the child issue (single), but rather the post Covid return to work challenge , which means that the dog will have to go to daycare 2 days a week.

cocker5 · 08-12-2020 07:18PM

anewme wrote: »

Thsts what I'm finding unfortunately.

In already about eight months with rescues. My homecheck is passed.

I don't have the child issue (single), but rather the post Covid return to work challenge , which means that the dog will have to go to daycare 2 days a week.

Are rescues giving u hassle re: doggie day care?

We rescued our springer in January and I advised the rescue we both work full time (we are experienced dog owners) and our adoptee would be attending doggie day care - they had no issues .. I can’t publish the rescue against rules but if u want the name pm me x

I drove 2.5 hours to get our guy (home check was done)

Best decision I ever made

All dogs are a blessing x

DBB · 08-12-2020 07:19PM

Jayney Just A Thought... you speak of sweeping generalisations, but I simply don't know where to start with much of what you've said... it's rare that I read so much unfounded factoids in one or two posts in this forum, to be perfectly honest! Almost everything you say is in complete contradiction to my own experience, which has been honed at the coalface of dogdom at a professional level for almost 2 decades now (and not at the breeding end of it).
I have never once come across a reputable breeder who has charged into 4 figures for the pups they're selling to the pet market, with some very rare and explicable exceptions... but even those came nowhere near the price tag you've been suggesting. The going rate for years and years has been €600 to €800. That's been very consistent over the past couple of decades.

The irony is that the recent vast inflation in the price of pups came from the cowboys, the puppy farmers, the back yard breeders. They spotted another opportunity to gouge from people who want to buy a pup. In all my years of working in dogdom, the first time I saw any of the usual popular breeds exceeding the 4-figure mark was on Donedeal, starting around last March.

People who sell IKC registered pups are not necessarily reputable... all you have to do is pay a fee to the IKC for them to register your pups. The IKC are not a quality control organisation, and do not vet the people registering pups with them in any meaningful way. You want to get on their list of breeders? Simple! Pay them. Job done.

As has already been pointed out, the only real way of sourcing a breeder who DOES have to conform to welfare and ethical standards, is to go through the breed societies, which apply standards and actively exclude people who breed for money. They actively include people who know their breed back to front, who carry out genetic health testing, who source the best examples of their breed from which to produce the best puppies they can, and who raise their pups carefully and with the emphasis on preparing them for life as a pet dog. Critically, they also care deeply about what sort of homes their puppies go to. It's not a matter of "here's a pup, now where's the money" that you'll get from gougers, "professional breeders", BYBs, and others who may or may not be selling IKC registered pups.

I have to say too, JAT, that I take issue with your broad insinuation that rescue dogs are trouble. One of my involvements in dogdom over the past 20 years has been running a rescue, and fostering for others. I can say with conviction that the majority of dogs I've fostered and rehomed have been first class pets, and I'm talking about many hundreds of dogs here. No insurmountable issues, no real problems, many, many, many adopters reporting back that "it's like s/he's always been here"... Off the top of my head, this describes upwards of 80% of them. I don't feel the rescue dog whitewash I've seen from here should be let go unchallenged, particularly when those opinions are coming across as being based on very limited experience and/or biased anecdotal information.

Hoboo · 08-12-2020 07:29PM

JustAThought wrote: »

OP - tell your friend to do exactly what suits them so long as the dog is checked to be healthy and has their vacs and seems to have been well treated aNd kindly handled and mixed in a household - too many vested interests and screamers and absolute purchasing absurdities involved otherwise.

Probably the worst piece of advice I've read on boards. "Seems" to be well treated is good enough for you?

What about the mother? I know I know, who cares.

You sound like a panicking backyard breeder.

DBB · 08-12-2020 07:37PM

anewme wrote: »

Thats what I'm finding unfortunately.

In already about eight months with rescues. My homecheck is passed.

I don't have the child issue (single), but rather the post Covid return to work challenge , which means that the dog will have to go to daycare 2 days a week.

Honestly anewme? I think there's a major issue with supply at the moment. I'm not seeing any avalanche of unwanted Covid pups and dogs into rescue. It's just not happening, from what I've seen.
I think that people who have paid €1000+ for their (now unwanted) dog are going to be very hesitant to surrender the dog... many people can and did write off the €300-€500 they paid for their dogs pre-Covid, but €1000 is a whole different story. So, they're selling them. Not surrendering them.
At the same time, the demand for dogs is just... astronomical at the moment. I run a very small rescue, and every day of the week, I'm getting anywhere from 3 to 10 calls and emails from people wanting a dog. I simply can't help these people, because I've no dogs. Granted, it's a more specialised rescue, but both the demand, AND the lack of dogs being surrendered, are quite unmitigated. The backlog of people my little rescue has of people waiting in hope, is huge, and growing every day, despite my warning them that they're in for a long, long wait.
So, I can only imagine what the bigger rescues are experiencing. It must be bedlam.
It is very frustrating not being able to help people, and to sort them out with a lovely dog, because so many of the people calling are lovely, kind people who I've no doubt would offer a great home.
So, I don't know if this is of any consolation at all, but I'm quite sure it's nothing personal

It's such a terrible time to be trying to find a puppy or dog now. I would not like to be in that position.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 07:48PM

Hoboo wrote: »

Probably the worst piece of advice I've read on boards. "Seems" to be well treated is good enough for you?

What about the mother? I know I know, who cares.

You sound like a panicking backyard breeder.

No. More accusatory nonsense.

And you sound like a hysterical rescue volunteer. Also possibly not true. This is exactly why we need to evaluate how dogs can be sold and what systems work overseas- as the ones we have in place here clearly are not working and have not been working for decades.

JustAThought · 08-12-2020 08:02PM

DBB wrote: »

Jayney Just A Thought... you speak of sweeping generalisations, but I simply don't know where to start with much of what you've said... it's rare that I read so much unfounded factoids in one or two posts in this forum, to be perfectly honest! Almost everything you say is in complete contradiction to my own experience, which has been honed at the coalface of dogdom at a professional level for almost 2 decades now (and not at the breeding end of it).
I have never once come across a reputable breeder who has charged into 4 figures for the pups they're selling to the pet market, with some very rare and explicable exceptions... but even those came nowhere near the price tag you've been suggesting. The going rate for years and years has been €600 to €800. That's been very consistent over the past couple of decades.

The irony is that the recent vast inflation in the price of pups came from the cowboys, the puppy farmers, the back yard breeders. They spotted another opportunity to gouge from people who want to buy a pup. In all my years of working in dogdom, the first time I saw any of the usual popular breeds exceeding the 4-figure mark was on Donedeal, starting around last March.

People who sell IKC registered pups are not necessarily reputable... all you have to do is pay a fee to the IKC for them to register your pups. The IKC are not a quality control organisation, and do not vet the people registering pups with them in any meaningful way. You want to get on their list of breeders? Simple! Pay them. Job done.

As has already been pointed out, the only real way of sourcing a breeder who DOES have to conform to welfare and ethical standards, is to go through the breed societies, which apply standards and actively exclude people who breed for money. They actively include people who know their breed back to front, who carry out genetic health testing, who source the best examples of their breed from which to produce the best puppies they can, and who raise their pups carefully and with the emphasis on preparing them for life as a pet dog. Critically, they also care deeply about what sort of homes their puppies go to. It's not a matter of "here's a pup, now where's the money" that you'll get from gougers, "professional breeders", BYBs, and others who may or may not be selling IKC registered pups.

I have to say too, JAT, that I take issue with your broad insinuation that rescue dogs are trouble. One of my involvements in dogdom over the past 20 years has been running a rescue, and fostering for others. I can say with conviction that the majority of dogs I've fostered and rehomed have been first class pets, and I'm talking about many hundreds of dogs here. No insurmountable issues, no real problems, many, many, many adopters reporting back that "it's like s/he's always been here"... Off the top of my head, this describes upwards of 80% of them. I don't feel the rescue dog whitewash I've seen from here should be let go unchallenged, particularly when those opinions are coming across as being based on very limited experience and/or biased anecdotal information.

Oh please - spare me the DBB typical I am an expert hear my dogma.

I agree with you that some rescues are not trouble - but many are and many people are
left with damaged dogs that have their deep set neuroses that remain with them all
their life. No doubt ypu are the dog whisperer with thirty years of experience in magically fixing every rescue dog and giving it perfection in every
aspect of its life and lyimg down your life to defend them in courts and at
hime night and day fighting for their rights and survival but for a lot of people who out of the kindness of their hearts rescue dogs they are left holding the can with a problematic dog whose issues and neuroses or habits stem from how it was - or wasn’t - treated, trained or socialised when it was young. It dosn’t mean that is the case for every rescue but for many it is - regardless of the love they bring or the heartwarming story involved. This is why also many people choose not to wait at
the gates of rescues for an abandoned and often badly treated loveable dog but choose instead to buy one - at a time and for a breed that suits their needs and household. Not everybody wants an unknown dog or problematic pet to retrain or try and socialise many months after it should have been done in their house. Hence there will always be a market for (new) puppies and for a better method of organising the buying and selling of them. Ours is clearly not fit for purpose and not working.

And as all the professional breeders on this site - now 4 or 5 posting and liking each others comments - are all commercial money maryters and have never taken anything like the going breeders rate for pups - let
me commend them all for their humanity and subservience to the dog kingdom - it must be hard getting in and out of bed every day with halos so big .

Question still remains unanswered - and no doubt is of interest to the OP - how are other countries regulating their sales of puppies. Surely everyone can’t be making such a hysterical emotive and highly expensive balls of it like Ireland is? Contary to the experience of all the impoverished dog breeding experts on this thread of course.

DBB · 08-12-2020 08:11PM

JustAThought wrote: »

Oh please - spare me the dogmatic DBB typical I am an expert hear my dogma.

Oh dear. I stopped reading at this point. I had been hoping for some mature dialogue and debate, but in response to my post, I get exactly the hyperbole you're accusing others of. Getting a bit personal too, which is a great way to shut down any engagement, I find.
I had been going to talk with you about the models used in other countries... what has worked, what hasn't, as I've quite a bit of experience in the area, but it seems that my "expertise" is not something you're prepared to listen to or to engage with in a mature manner. The only dogma you appear to want to hear seems to be your own.
Good luck!

tk123 · 08-12-2020 08:21PM

Professional dog breeders lol..there’s only one person who seems like a professional breeder here..

It’s not me - I’m a professional vet client!

Possible puppy farm?

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