Possible puppy farm?

Taiga · 03-12-2020 08:30PM #1

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

cocker5 · 03-12-2020 08:44PM

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

So the lady is a regular breeder then? As in she has numerous litters?

She had litters last year.. a current litter of which some have had to be PTS... and another one due??

And your SIL isn’t running a mile?
I’m just not sure how people can be so blind - sorry not trying to cause offence but this baffles me ..

€450 for a cross breed - what breeds?

My rescue full pedigree springer spaniel cost me €150 from a rescue centre and came vaccinated/ neutered!

Your correct tell them to walk away ..

Taiga · 03-12-2020 09:02PM

Thanks Cocker, yeah no-brainer. I'll show her your response and I reckon that'll do the job. We had said it to her over the past couple of weeks but she was convinced by the lady not giving pups for Christmas and she seemed to care. Some of her work colleagues have been onto her today also so hopefully she will run a mile. Bro seems a bit lax, says it's up to her.

I can't get the poor mothers out of my head, like a fcukin conveyor belt!

Cherry Blossom · 03-12-2020 09:35PM

If it’s not a puppy farm it’s certainly a back yard breeder as most deliberate cross breeds come from. The difference is just scale and the back yard breeder probably doesn’t have the licence larger scale operators are required to pay for. Ethically, there is no difference between the two. It couldn’t be more obvious this is an unethical operation. Tell your family members to run very fast and very far away.

Taiga · 03-12-2020 10:00PM

I've sent your reply on too Cherry, thank you. She's upset but hopefully will do the right thing.

tk123 · 04-12-2020 11:05AM

They're always genuine/care about their dogs blah blah blah.. But usually people want a dog and they want it now so they don't want to listen.

Just to give an idea - I was supposed to be getting a pup next month but not happening now as there was a problem

.. I was put ahead of 10 other people on this list because by chance my friend is kind of related to the breeder (long story) but I had gone through the breed club and it was a just coincidence. (so seemed like it was meat to be

) I'm now on a different breeders list and will be looking at April before I get the pup all going well. Reputable breeders don't have a running stock of puppies - they take names while they're planning a litter and their lists fill up fast so I would question anyone that has puppies that weren't already booked.

There is nothing wrong with buying a pup but it's the buyers responsibility to make sure they're coming from a reputable breeder and not somebody churning out puppies to make some extra tax free cash. My friend has been trying to rescue for over a year now - lots of people are in the same situation and get fed up waiting.. but there's been posts here recently where posters are heartbroken because their puppies have been pts or diagnosed with progressive illnesses and have no support or compassion from the breeders.

bertiebomber · 04-12-2020 04:48PM

go to a rescue for gods sake they barely charge enough to cover the neuter & fleas treatments not for profit . Any dog over 500 euro is a puppy farm, dogs are so inflated at the moment.. Please wait a bit as they are being surrendered a lot, up 70% surrender already as the covid pups \are now teenagers and not wanted anymore. if you are patient and dont require the pup on xmas day you will benefit from the fools who paids 1000's for pups mark my word. After xmas the rescues will be over loaded.

irish_goat · 04-12-2020 04:58PM

Sounds like a small scale puppy farm. Your brother will have over the money and the breeder will have another batch of pups on sale in a few months time.

Taiga · 04-12-2020 06:31PM

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

tk123 · 04-12-2020 07:02PM

She could take it and live happily ever after or it could have health issues that will break her heart and wallet. It’s a tough one. It’s not as easy as just going to a rescue as people might like to think - the pandemic has kind of stopped that in its tracks depending on the rescue. My friend has been looking for a puppy for over a year now from various rescues and has hit a brick wall and she's not looking for anything crazy. As for them being full of unwanted puppies in the new year? I don’t know if that’ll be the case - people forking out huge amounts of money for a pup are probably more likely to sell them on rather than hand them over to a pound.

Again, there’s nothing wrong with buying a pup but you need to do your research on health/behavioural issues associated with the breed as well as the breeder. Your best best on price would be to call the breed club and ask their advice on what you should be expecting to pay. Their costs include stud fees, health checks, medical expenses etc which varies based on breed.

cocker5 · 04-12-2020 07:07PM

Taiga wrote: »

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

Have you said to your sister by her buying this pup she is facilitating this horrible practice/ industry?

Supply and demand and she is adding to it?

Think of the mother she’s leaving behind? Left no doubt to have numerous future litters?

Knine · 04-12-2020 07:09PM

bertiebomber wrote: »

go to a rescue for gods sake they barely charge enough to cover the neuter & fleas treatments not for profit . Any dog over 500 euro is a puppy farm, dogs are so inflated at the moment.. Please wait a bit as they are being surrendered a lot, up 70% surrender already as the covid pups \are now teenagers and not wanted anymore. if you are patient and dont require the pup on xmas day you will benefit from the fools who paids 1000's for pups mark my word. After xmas the rescues will be over loaded.

Are you for real? How many quality puppies have you bred, paid large stud fees for, paid for health testing, prefix fees, registration fees, IKC membership, vet fees, vaccinations, worming, whelping supplies quality puppy & mother food, puppy packs & then cleaning supplies & your time spent looking after them until 8 weeks. Do you know how much an out of hours C Section costs?

A small breed - you might be lucky to get 3 pups!

Not all rescues are Knights in Shining Armour either. My Club was involved in shutting down one!

bertiebomber · 05-12-2020 10:45AM

Knine wrote: »

Are you for real? How many quality puppies have you bred, paid large stud fees for, paid for health testing, prefix fees, registration fees, IKC membership, vet fees, vaccinations, worming, whelping supplies quality puppy & mother food, puppy packs & then cleaning supplies & your time spent looking after them until 8 weeks. Do you know how much an out of hours C Section costs?

A small breed - you might be lucky to get 3 pups!

Not all rescues are Knights in Shining Armour either. My Club was involved in shutting down one!

We bred and showed miniature dachshunds 30 years ago so i do know what i am saying and i know what you are saying too. To be honest the kennel club the rescues the breeders good and bad are all in it for big bucks. We didnt selll our dogs we showed them and they lived with us all 12 of them till they died as we didnt think anyone would treat them well enough.

Today i have rescue greyhound & a rescue Bernese she cost 1800 euro in 2009 and i was asked to just take her as she was big and hairy and had a broken foot untreated and calcified. Today she is a therapy dog, getting on for sure but has brought happiness to many ill and infirmed elderly people and young people with brain injuries. She only cost me her veterinary treatment a small amputation of her toe & her shots and health check and ongoing meds for aging dog.

When you are paying 1000, 1500, 2000 2400 someone is trousering a nice pay day whatever you say & they dont really care who buys the dog as long as the cash is fresh from the ATM.

05-12-2020 10:51AM

Taiga wrote: »

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

Your brother would be better calling the ispca and reporting it. That would be looking after their welfare

Buddy Bubs · 05-12-2020 11:02AM

Can't see why a licence to sell dogs and other animals isn't a thing. Licence it, tax it. Restrict number of licences. It would be reported in a heartbeat if there were breaches and illegal trading.

cocker5 · 05-12-2020 11:23AM

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Can't see why a licence to sell dogs and other animals isn't a thing. Licence it, tax it. Restrict number of licences. It would be reported in a heartbeat if there were breaches and illegal trading.

Majority of Puppy farms are licensed.. the government approves most of them .. shocking as it sounds

bertiebomber · 05-12-2020 12:09PM

<Defamatory, Racist comment removed>

Knine · 05-12-2020 12:11PM

bertiebomber wrote: »

this government is really run by a half indian / pakistani irish person he sees no wrong in the greyhound crisis and continues to fund them he has no empathy, he is an autistic person thence all dog &* horse racing continued during the lockdown behind closed doors for gambling only, thats all money. Absolutely not essential. Our government are soo busy spinning stories and trying to look good they dont give a monkies about animal welfare they sway whatever way a vote comes.

Wow.

I dunno what to actually say about this post!

bertiebomber · 05-12-2020 12:13PM

Knine wrote: »

Wow.

I dunno what to actually say about this post!

well there is nothing to say its all true Vradkar is a robot.

DBB · 05-12-2020 12:24PM

bertiebomber wrote: »

this government is really run by a half indian / pakistani irish person he sees no wrong in the greyhound crisis and continues to fund them he has no empathy, he is an autistic person thence all dog &* horse racing continued during the lockdown behind closed doors for gambling only, thats all money. Absolutely not essential. Our government are soo busy spinning stories and trying to look good they dont give a monkies about animal welfare they sway whatever way a vote comes.

Bertiebomber, I can't find polite words strong enough to pull you up for this post.
I know we've had to call you out before for saying things that bear no relevance and are sailing very close to the wind in terms of respect, and defamation.
This is your final warning bertiebomber. If I see any more of this sort of uninhibited scutter from you, you will be banned from the forum.
For now, do not post in this thread again.
Thanks,
DBB

coathanger · 05-12-2020 02:05PM

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

Tell your sister to steer clear, €450 for a crossbreed or mongrel ! Madness !!
Ask her to approach a local rescue & offer to foster a dog , & donate the €450 to the rescue , that would be a great help with their food & vet bills .
Whilst fostering they might find a dog that is the perfect fit for their family.
Also ask your sil in to check out the county council website in the area where this breeder is located , she may well see their name on the Register of Dog Breeding Establishments.
That’s a real eye opener I can tell u .
Photos/ situations can be staged for the buyer , ie nice clean straw & heat lamps ! Far better to have the pups in a safe corner of the kitchen to get them used to day to day noises of living with a family in a family home.
I hope your sil sees sense ...

Taiga · 05-12-2020 04:32PM

cocker5 wrote: »

Have you said to your sister by her buying this pup she is facilitating this horrible practice/ industry?

Supply and demand and she is adding to it?

Think of the mother she’s leaving behind? Left no doubt to have numerous future litters?

Oh I have Cocker, she said her co-workers have too. My bro said this morning she's been crying over it but is coming to the realisation that it's the wrong thing to do. A relief, but not for those poor dogs. Got my little woman from a rescue, spayed before I could collect her. Fantastic stuff, I couldn't imagine her being used like that:(

Taiga · 05-12-2020 04:35PM

cocker5 wrote: »

Majority of Puppy farms are licensed.. the government approves most of them .. shocking as it sounds

What?:eek: I didn't know that. That makes me very sad.

cocker5 · 05-12-2020 05:04PM

Taiga wrote: »

What?:eek: I didn't know that. That makes me very sad.

I know it’s shocking we are the puppy farming capital of Europe.. within over 100 legal farms .. they approve large scale places with up to 300 breeding bitches (Cavan is a hot spot but they are all over Ireland)

The type of breeding as per original post is more than likely a back yard breeder with 2/3 breeding bitches - no difference really between them when it comes down to it ..

cocker5 · 05-12-2020 05:12PM

Taiga wrote: »

Oh I have Cocker, she said her co-workers have too. My bro said this morning she's been crying over it but is coming to the realisation that it's the wrong thing to do. A relief, but not for those poor dogs. Got my little woman from a rescue, spayed before I could collect her. Fantastic stuff, I couldn't imagine her being used like that:(

You cannot do anymore you’ve given them all the information you can .. while infuriating they will do what the want x you’ve tried your best here

Taiga · 05-12-2020 05:41PM

Thanks Cocker, it is frustrating because here you have someone that now knows the situation but has still been hesitant. It will never stop with people so willing to hand over cash to them.

cocker5 · 05-12-2020 06:35PM

Taiga wrote: »

Thanks Cocker, it is frustrating because here you have someone that now knows the situation but has still been hesitant. It will never stop with people so willing to hand over cash to them.

Your 100% correct it’s all down to supply and demand ..

If ‘stupid’ people continue to purchases these dogs - there is money to be made ..the industry will continue

I use the word stupid because in 2020 there is NO excuse for being blind sided or not knowing .. everywhere there is information daily re: puppy’s farms and back yards breeders .. it’s everywhere.. people choose to ignore it ..

As most people want a puppy like ‘now’ and are not prepared to wait and go through a reputable breeder and wait for their pup .. it’s very sad for all the mothers and fathers used in this trade and for all the poorly bred pups .. but people still don’t care enough to wait or go via a rescue ..

anewme · 06-12-2020 02:43PM

I'm following every rescue in the country for the past six to eight months and its virtually impossible to get a puppy. You dont even get a reply as they get so many applications.

What is worrying though is that people are taking a puppy, any puppy instead of getting the right fit.

I would consider a reputable breeder, but I've no idea who is good or bad, I don't know anyone in the business, so it's hard to figure out and is not always obvious.

I'd hate to support back yard breeder or puppy farmer in any way.

tk123 · 06-12-2020 03:26PM

anewme wrote: »

I'm following every rescue in the country for the past six to eight months and its virtually impossible to get a puppy. You dont even get a reply as they get so many applications.

My friend has been looking for over a year! I cringe at some of the rescues shes following and supporting on FB with donations she can’t afford

eg rescues who have had FB pages set up to exposed them(!)

The best way to find a reputable breeder is through the breed club - this ensures the breeders are following a code of ethics and are only breeding from dogs who are fully health checked and screened including genetic testing. The problem atm is that they’re also inundated with tyre kickers.

anewme · 06-12-2020 10:42PM

tk123 wrote: »

My friend has been looking for over a year! I cringe at some of the rescues shes following and supporting on FB with donations she can’t afford eg rescues who have had FB pages set up to exposed them(!)

The best way to find a reputable breeder is through the breed club - this ensures the breeders are following a code of ethics and are only breeding from dogs who are fully health checked and screened including genetic testing. The problem atm is that they’re also inundated with tyre kickers.

I know exactly who is who and if you remember there was one here too!.

Its s not all one sided rescue is good and breeder is bad.

I'd just clearly hate to be missing something obvious that people in the know, know, if that makes sense.

Highroad12 · 06-12-2020 10:52PM

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

Is the breeder in Wexford by any chance?

Possible puppy farm?

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